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01-12-2008, 03:09 PM #51Junior Guru
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01-12-2008, 03:57 PM #52New Member
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Today I was decided to go for deal of HostGator but after this I have to change may mind because who knowns what kind of wierd policy they have. Reliable is very important criteria. I have around 30 customers which I was looking for solutions.
South Africans: I would say go get a good lawyer. If you accept this, you will never find any where to do a business. The others can easily follow.
All The Best
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01-12-2008, 03:58 PM #53Web Hosting Guru
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I've been watching this thread and wasn't going to say anything, as most of my thoughts have already been covered by other users.
BUT, the two points you made above (points 3 and 4) seem a bit off to me. Yes, you are correct that the internet does not belong to the US... but what does that have to do with HostGator canceling this customers account? It's already been stated that a large amount of fraudulent orders are coming from South America and that is why they are only accepting orders from that country if they are paid in advance by wire transfer. The OP is CHOOSING to do business with HostGator and therefore must abide by their policies. One of these policies is that orders from SA need to be paid in advance. While I agree this is inconvenient to this customer, it is one of their policies, and like Brent said, it's to protect their current customers so they are not placed on a server with a spammer or other malicious customer who would have the server blacklisted.
I do not think that you should look at in a way that HostGator has something against your country. You should look at it in the sense that HostGator cares enough about their current customers to take such measures in order to protect their current customers and their websites. Imagine for a minute that your website(s) you have hosted on a shared server are blacklisted because someone on the server has spammed, hosted illegal content, etc. It's not fair to you because you haven't done anything wrong... but someone else on the server has. You would not be happy and would be very upset. Their system isn't foolproof, but by carefully screening their orders for fraud they can minimize the risk of this situation or a similar one from happening.
I would encourage you to take the role of a customer who's websites are/were affected by another customer on a shared server and then re-evaluate your opinion on HostGator. Like I said above, I think this shows how dedicated HostGator is to protecting their current customers and their websites.I post on WHT strictly for sig views0
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01-12-2008, 04:18 PM #54Web Hosting Master
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It's already been stated that a large amount of fraudulent orders are coming from South America and that is why they are only accepting orders from that country if they are paid in advance by wire transfer
BTW, I have to give the right to Hostgator here, the 99% of the order comming from SA are from spammers or fraud.█ Shared Web Hosting - Reseller Hosting - Semi-Dedicated Servers - SolusVM/XEN VPS
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01-12-2008, 04:28 PM #55Web Hosting Guru
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01-12-2008, 05:19 PM #56Junior Guru
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Well so
1) South Africans are spammers, blacklist servers, malicious customers, host illigal content (according to you)
2) Take note these policy's you are talking about is not on there website or TOS
Oh well such is life i will have to leave SA now and become a spammer in USA. Kinda interesting i get a lot of spam from Canadian drug companies.
Ok you guys win. HG is allowed to take your money, use it and then tell you they don't need you as you are fraud and then refund your money.
i just signed for a vps, payed with Paypal and was welcomed and they know i am from SA. Actually once i signed up i received a invoice from Paypal and checked my credit card and it was deducted already. Only a while later the company concerned send me an e-mail welcoming me. At least it seems only HG don't want our business. (this order was not with HG)
i know we can get rough but that is only when we win the Rugby World CupLast edited by johannes; 01-12-2008 at 05:23 PM.
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01-12-2008, 05:22 PM #57Retired Moderator
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I think this has been clarified enough already. HG does want SA's business, but has a different payment method to avoid fraud and spam. Don't blame HG for their position, blame your fellow countrymen.
Actually, yes it is. That's what we call freedom. As long as it's within the law, we can do it.
One way to place customers first, is to protect them. From what? Higher prices due to fraud, blacklisted IP's, financial scams ect. Cheers to HostGator for protecting their clients.
I don't think anyone is claiming the US owns the internet. That would be rather silly.
Again, your blaming HG for something that is not their fault. Who do you think gave HG the idea that fraud and spam rates are higher from people in your country? I am sure they didn't just think it up overnight.
If you don't like the way your country is viewed by others, you have 2 options.
1) Fight for regulation to curb the fraud and spam and lower the rate drastically.
2) Move to another country.
Let's end this with an analogy:
Let's say I am travelling to Detroit, Michigan (2007's most dangerous city in the US). Knowing that it's the most dangerous city, should I treat my vacation the same as if I were going to Mission Viejo, California (2007's safest city in the US).
The chances of me treating it the same, are slim to none. For one, I have experience (I have been to Detroit). Also, based on what the polls say, I have every right to treat the situation differently.
Should I feel bad and blame myself for feeling this way? NO, that would be stupid.
Should I blame some minister in Detroit? Of course not, there are plenty of good people who are not the problem.
Should I throw the statistics and personal experience to the side, and let my guard down to a stranger in Detroit (even if he claims to be a minister)? NONeed a new Web Host?
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01-12-2008, 05:29 PM #58Junior Guru
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01-12-2008, 05:30 PM #59Retired Moderator
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01-12-2008, 05:43 PM #60Retired Moderator
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If you passed our fraud check, than yes. Would we treat the order a differently? Yes, the fraud check would be more in-depth.
I don't personally believe you are a spammer or fraud, and I even understand why your frustrated with HG. So your kinda like the guy in Detroit who claims to be a minister. Overall, you seem like a good person, but I would have to scrutinize the order the same as any other order from SA. Just like a Web Host has to build trust with their clients, clients have to build trust with their hosts.
Even while I understand your frustration, I still understand and respect HG's policy. Again, it's not there fault they feel this way. Your frustruation would be better suited for the people who caused HG (and others) to think this way.Need a new Web Host?
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01-12-2008, 05:45 PM #61Web Hosting Guru
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No, I'm not saying all South African's are spammers, malicious customers, ect... but the majority of the customers from South Africa placing orders at HostGator obviously are if they have put measures in place such as these. It is really inconvenient for customers who are operating legitimately, which is unfortunate for you. I agree that paying one year in advance via wire transfer is not the best option, but in this case it seems that this is the only option if you want to host with HostGator.
Fair enough. It should be posted on their policies/TOS page. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a new enough policy that they have not updated their policy/TOS page yet.
I hope you are happy with the new host you found!I post on WHT strictly for sig views0
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01-12-2008, 05:46 PM #62Junior Guru
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If you say so, but then again you are not South Africa. If HG when you signup state these policies fine but they don't so stop defending them. It is called customer courtesy Every country in the world have problems and i find it funny that all of a sudden SA is labeled for the the things we are accused of. In South Africa for me to be on the internet with adsl cost me R500 a month +- $75 and that is on a 384kbs and 3g cap. Internet is not available to the general public very cheaply and the amount of users is not that high.
i would like to see stats on these fraud cases and i don't understand why if using paypal you cant be trusted especially if you have been verified. Is there a problem then with Paypal as it seem then people don't trust Paypal
i am sure that if you were in our position you would also stand up for your country (or would you)0
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01-12-2008, 05:51 PM #63Web Hosting Master
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01-12-2008, 05:59 PM #64Web Hosting Guru
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Scammers, spammers, etc. all make good money... that's why they continue to operate. I assume from your responses that you do not own/operate a hosting company, nor have you worked from one. Please notice that the responses in defense of HG are coming mainly from people who own or are employed by a hosting company. From all of our experiences we have seen a trend in fraudulent orders and where they originate from, such as HG has noticed a trend of fraudulent orders from SA. It is not an attack on the people of SA, but there are obviously laws, or lack there of, in SA that protect these people who continue to operate.
Like it has been said before, PayPal is not a good way to verify someone is who they say they are. All you need to open a PayPal account is a bank account and a credit card. If you are a spammer/scammer you may have someone credit card and or bank account number and you could then open an account posing as the person who's information you stole. It's not the easiest thing to do, but it has been done, and I've seen similar situations in at least two cases. We're a fraction of the size of HG, so I'd hate to guess how many times they've seen it.I post on WHT strictly for sig views0
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01-12-2008, 06:00 PM #65Junior Guru
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i am asking you this not as being sarcastic or being difficult or ? you as i would like to know for my own ref sake and it would be nice to know.
1) If you passed our fraud check, than yes.
Being registered with paypal isn't that enough as dont they do fraud check on the persons card?
2) Yes, the fraud check would be more in-depth.
How would you do that, say in my case i am a verified paypal user. Doesnt that count for something, or would you phone first to check
3) In case of say shared or reseller hosting if a person signup with you then dont pay or the credit card bounce what are you loosing (not that much really) that wouldnt apply to a dedicated though i would say ??
4)Your frustruation would be better suited for the people who caused HG (and others) to think this way
Well welcome to our new South Africa. Pray for US0
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01-12-2008, 06:04 PM #66Junior Guru
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01-12-2008, 06:12 PM #67Web Hosting Master
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Regardless, paypal isn't effective enough at getting rid of spammers and scammers to make it's verification status count.
HostGator is a great host, and the fact that they are doing this makes them that much better. They are protecting themselves from fraud, and we do the same.0
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01-12-2008, 06:15 PM #68Junior Guru
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Yes i do but only sell locally and only process an order once money have been transferred to my account. And yes i do get a fair amount of fake sign ups but unless i get payed i will not register a domain or setup a account. Most hosting in SA is done with debit orders which is only viable if you do large scale. This way a persons account get debited which help a lot in getting your money.
i do credit card but manually as getting a merchant account in SA is a lot of red tape. we cant use paypal to collect money but i am thinking of using 2co
The ? on paypal i did before i read this post0
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01-12-2008, 06:25 PM #69Junior Guru
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Let me put it this way;
As far as i know the is no diplomatic problems between USA and SA. Actually currently as far as i know we are pretty much at peace with everybody.
So as we in this state with the USA wouldn't it be nice to continue such relations if companies in the USA (HG) would state on there websites if you are from xyz no problem but abc no signup and from def we will have to do verification first.
At least this way these "relations" and"trust" will increase wouldn't you think0
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01-12-2008, 07:04 PM #70Web Hosting Master
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It is hostgator's decision and right to restrict who they can provide service to. And in reality, they didn't even ban you from their services they simply requested you to pay via a different method. If you don't want to use such methods, there are plenty other hosts to choose from.
Yes there billing system needs a significant overhaul but you got your money back and from what it seems in a short period of time, move on. I don't see the point of this thread any longer.0
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01-12-2008, 07:25 PM #71Retired Moderator
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Here, maybe this will help you understand.
Assume for a minute, that you own a hosting company and have thousands of customers.
Let's say your fraud statistics looked something like this:
US Customers: 500 out of 45,000 orders were fraudulent.
Timbucktoo Customers: 990 out of 1000 were fradulent.
As the owner of this fictitious company, would you not be the least bit worried that the next guy from Timbucktoo is fraudulent?
If you accepted the order you run the risk of:
1) Getting your Server IP's blacklisted for SPAM or Phishing sites.
2) Having your upstream provider pull the plug on your server.
3) Paying chargeback fee's, getting your merchant provider pissed at you, ect..
As you can see, there is alot more to deal with than just "darn, this fraudster just got a free month out of me".
Wouldn't it be easier to say... ok, your from Timbucktoo, so were going to need a full years payment upfront, wire transferred to us. Most spammers and fraudsters would move on to the next company, which would stop you (as the host) from having to deal with the mess they would certainly leave behind.
If you can't understand that, it doesn't matter how I answer any of your previous questions for me...your just not going to get it. So... I am going to save myself some time, and join another discussionNeed a new Web Host?
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01-12-2008, 07:32 PM #72Retired Moderator
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This isn't USA vs SA, it's HostGator (and some other hosts) vs SA. The only way trust will increase, is if the percentage of fraudulent orders and spammers from SA decreases.
It would be nice if HG had a warning for the countries they require a different payment method from, but they are by no means required to by US law.Need a new Web Host?
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01-13-2008, 05:00 AM #73Newbie
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THIS MATTER HAS BEEN RESOLVED
Got a pm from the boss of hostgator.com earlier today.
He approved my resellers account and gave me 2 months free
Will spend the money on
Well not all South African's suck after all.
I would just like to thank hostgator and all WHT members who participated in this thread.
Regards.
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01-13-2008, 06:01 AM #74The Linux Specialist
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