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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by linuxissues View Post
    Doesn't free=no money? I had 3 servers racked, 2 os reloads and some other stuff and no charge. Well if you use up the 3 hrs, it's $45/hr there on.
    Yes, but after 3 hours it's not free....

    Say I fill up a cabinet 1/3 and whatever they do to set everything up is free. Then in half a year, I buy another 20 servers, and I need 20 copies of CentOS installed. Then perhaps some smartass customers will ask for some other distros. All up, say I need 25 OS installs in a single month, in addition to the installation of 20 servers. I want to know exactly how long an OS install takes on average for them to do so that I can predict whether the free time will cover it or whether it will cost extra - and if so, how much extra.

    Seem reasonable?

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Yes, but after 3 hours it's not free....

    Say I fill up a cabinet 1/3 and whatever they do to set everything up is free. Then in half a year, I buy another 20 servers, and I need 20 copies of CentOS installed. Then perhaps some smartass customers will ask for some other distros. All up, say I need 25 OS installs in a single month, in addition to the installation of 20 servers. I want to know exactly how long an OS install takes on average for them to do so that I can predict whether the free time will cover it or whether it will cost extra - and if so, how much extra.

    Seem reasonable?
    That is why you ship a KVM over IP such as spider and a DVD drive OR make yourself a simple kickstart server and ship it to the DC. All you have to tell them is to move the KVM cable to the server you want.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  3. #128
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    Get a KVM over ip and do it yourself???

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by HNLV View Post
    That is why you ship a KVM over IP such as spider and a DVD drive OR make yourself a simple kickstart server and ship it to the DC. All you have to tell them is to move the KVM cable to the server you want.
    I would love nothing more than to build my own servers and install all the stuff on them, as it would save thousands. Unfortunately I live in Australia, which means all the hardware is very overpriced, and there would be massive shipping fees and it'd take ages to ship

    It sucks that people outside the US are automatically and permanently disadvantaged like this but oh well.


    What is KVM?

  5. #130
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  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxissues View Post
    Get a KVM over ip and do it yourself???
    Yes. KVM stands for Keyboard, Video, Mouse. You can read up on it in Wikipedia.

    To summarise things up, you are as if just in front of the server but managing it remotely.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxissues View Post
    Get a KVM over ip and do it yourself???
    err, that was not a question, I was telling starcraftmazter to get one..

  8. #133
    That sounds pretty interesting. Does Uberbandwidth support this technology? Also, is it possible to have all servers connected to one of these things, or would the cables need to be switched around bit each server I want to remotely manage?

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    I would love nothing more than to build my own servers and install all the stuff on them, as it would save thousands. Unfortunately I live in Australia, which means all the hardware is very overpriced, and there would be massive shipping fees and it'd take ages to ship

    It sucks that people outside the US are automatically and permanently disadvantaged like this but oh well.
    Just purchase a server in the US and ask the vendor to ship it to the DC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    What is KVM?
    I mentioned already.

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Just purchase a server in the US and ask the vendor to ship it to the DC.
    Well that's precisely the plan, but it doesn't allow me to save money by building it myself.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    That sounds pretty interesting. Does Uberbandwidth support this technology? Also, is it possible to have all servers connected to one of these things, or would the cables need to be switched around bit each server I want to remotely manage?
    There is no special technology to it, you assign an ip to the KVM, hook it up to your switch and you access it via that ip. Yes you would have to have uber switch the KVM to the server you want to work on,..

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by linuxissues View Post
    There is no special technology to it, you assign an ip to the KVM, hook it up to your switch and you access it via that ip. Yes you would have to have uber switch the KVM to the server you want to work on,..
    KVM is the special technology, isn't it? As in the switch would need to be bought and installed somewhere.

    Also, how would it allow me to say insert an OS disc into the CD drive.

    And if it the cables need to be switched, for say 20 servers, this is 20 switches - everything is billed in 15 minute increments, hence this is 5 hours worth of work...and it seems we're back to square 1.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    KVM is the special technology, isn't it? As in the switch would need to be bought and installed somewhere.
    What's so special about it?

    Some motherboards have KVM on-board. If not, you can also purchase it from places like NewEgg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Also, how would it allow me to say insert an OS disc into the CD drive.
    Your PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    And if it the cables need to be switched, for say 20 servers, this is 20 switches - everything is billed in 15 minute increments, hence this is 5 hours worth of work...and it seems we're back to square 1.
    You can get a motherboard with on-board KVM or a KVM with multiple ports.

  14. #139
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    Well in my experience, They don't really "time" OS reloads and such. I'm not sure how much i've used but i'm sure i've used quite a bit of time and i've never been asked to pay extra or anything like that.

    I think it's a matter of "if you abuse our techs we will *abuse*(bill) you"

    But tbh it's worth it to get a KVM with multiple ports, something with 8 or so ports wouldn't be too expensive.

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    What's so special about it?
    Well it's specialty hardware that needs to be bought and placed somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Some motherboards have KVM on-board. If not, you can also purchase it from places like NewEgg.
    Again, I'm not in the US, I can't buy or build anything from newegg....

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Your PC.
    I don't follow?

  16. #141
    KVM over IP allows you to plug in all your servers to a KVM switch -- and KVM over IP (if you set it up and buy the right one) lets you "switch" between servers remotely.

    As for installing from a CD remotely, you should get a server that has this functionality built in. HP or Dell servers come to mind -- Dell has iDRAC that does this. (Get the Enterprise version). As for you buying a server in the U.S. to save money and then building it yourself or not building it yourself, I am confused? I am in the U.S. and I fly around in an airplane to datacenters to get work done. I guess it is cheaper if I have the DC do it, but when talking about 10 servers I want to make sure they are racked and installed right, so I will spend the money. For you, why dont you buy some Dell servers (and if you are buying 20 of them they will be about the same price as you building it yourself) and pay the DC or someone for 5 hours of installation time to put them on the rack and set up the IP addresses for the onboard KVMs. Seems like a good deal to me or get your butt on an airplane and do it yourself

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunter1 View Post
    For you, why dont you buy some Dell servers (and if you are buying 20 of them they will be about the same price as you building it yourself) and pay the DC or someone for 5 hours of installation time to put them on the rack and set up the IP addresses for the onboard KVMs. Seems like a good deal to me
    That's a good idea and would work good.

    Quote Originally Posted by shunter1 View Post
    or get your butt on an airplane and do it yourself
    This is actually un-do-able for some of us (including me) who either don't have the money (It'll cost a few grand to get to the US and back), time (time is veeery limited!, or the experience/knowledge to setup/rack servers (yes i know, its something pretty basic, but when you've never done it before you don't have a clue what your doing!)

    But tbh i would LOVE to go visit a datacenter and visit my own cabinet!

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by bhavicp View Post
    This is actually un-do-able for some of us (including me) who either don't have the money (It'll cost a few grand to get to the US and back), time (time is veeery limited!,...
    I fully agree

    If he wants to save money, he can get on an airplane and do it himself (you figure he should be able to get round-trip+hotel -- and i am guessing here -- for the equivalent of $200 per server if he is talking 20 servers).

    Or he can do what we both agree -- go with a Dell or something comparable that the techs can rack in 10-15 minutes each and configure the KVM IP. Figure this will cost about $50-75 per server if we allow for install time plus the cost of cables. My guess with 20 servers it will be less than that (much less) but he should budget that to be safe and happy.

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by bhavicp View Post
    But tbh i would LOVE to go visit a datacenter and visit my own cabinet!
    You know, I think there are some major benefits to seeing your own cabinet. I am not sure how the installs occur without you ever seeing the cabinet, do they just rack the equipment or do they really go into great detail?

    I can think of a few benefits of you going on-site vs a tech (and let me know if the techs actually do this stuff??)

    First, since he is so far away he must run a fault tolerance infrastructure (N+1). he doesnt want a switch to fail and it takes 2-3 days to swap it out while his equipment is basically dead. So the first benefit is he can unplug cables, reboot equipment, and test the availability of his infrastructure to make sure it is working perfectly. He can do this for hours and especially if he runs into problems, it is perfect to be onsite to solve them.

    Second, he can properly label eevrything. This way when things arent working he can look at his switch CLI or GUI, see port#16 has a link down and then he can trace the problem. He can call a tech at the DC "I think I have a bad NIC/cable/or switchport -- server#8, NIC port #2 which goes to Switch3 port #16. Can you please swap the cable first and if it still is link down, move from switch3 port #16 to #17" Still down? OK. Then he can call Dell and on the work order he can tell the tech "server #8, swap the motherboard we have a bad NIC, configure KVM IP to 1.2.3.4" Dell walks in, sees a server labeled properly and can swap it out no problem. he can put everything back and see port#16 light up again

    I have photos of all cabinets, drawing of the cabinets and equipment, and everything is labeled precisely so if something goes wrong we can diagnose and fix it and not worry about some tech touching the wrong cable. It is very nice. even if the datacenter is 20 minutes away, i will use a tech because why do i want to get out of my chair and waste an hour when i can get a tech to do it faster and pay him $50 for 15 minutes. And there are no worries about him touching my equipment because i know exactly what it is and can point him in the right direction.

    So there are some benefits to making the trip that I personally would probably try and make a trip out of it.. go for 3-4 days over a weekend and do it

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxissues View Post
    Either that or they are taking time to settle down from the dec rush..
    Also power prices have gone up from $13/amp to $18 starting Jan.
    Wonder if it is something to do with this (received Jan 4th). A bit more transparency would be nice, $5 per amp is a major hike.

    Dear Netriplex Customer,

    In order to serve you better, Netriplex is listing all upgrades and changes to our datacenters nationwide. Maintenance in other Netriplex Data Centers does not necessarily mean that your IDC facility will be affected. All pertinent information can be found in the description for each maintenance action to be performed.

    Maintenance Scheduled for AVL01
    Maintenance Time: 10:00 to 16:00 (Eastern, GMT-5) January 9, 2010
    Maintenance Window Duration: 6 Hours
    Maintenance Action: Routine UPS Maintenance
    Site Affected: AVL01
    Risk Classification: Low
    Netriplex Master Ticket #: 492761

    Netriplex facility operations in AVL01 will be working with our third party vendor during this window to perform routine maintenance on all Uninterruptable Power Systems (UPS). Typical maintenance includes battery voltage measurements, static bypass testing and other non-impacting service. During testing, the critical load protected by each UPS will be placed on stable generator power to ensure uninterrupted power quality at all times.

    If you have any questions, or would like to determine the extent of impact any maintenance may have on your environment, please contact the NOC at 800-619-8801 option 3 and reference the specific case number listed above.

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    Risk Classifications:

    Risk classifications are based upon the probability of your experiencing a disruption in service.

    (Low) The probability of a disruption in service is minimal. The maintenance being performed involves basic infrastructure systems and should not affect normal operations. Although the risk of a service interruption is minimal, Netriplex requires this work be performed during the maintenance window as a matter of policy.

    (Moderate) There is a possibility of a disruption in service. The maintenance being performed involves mission critical infrastructure systems. While redundant systems are the hallmark of our data center, we wanted to advise you in advance in the event the maintenance does not go as planned. We have taken all prudent precautions to eliminate the likelihood of a service interruption.

    (High) A service disruption should be anticipated. The maintenance being performed affects mission critical infrastructure systems. Should a disruption in service occur, Netriplex will move rapidly to limit this interruption to the absolute minimum amount of time. This classification is required for maintenance where the risk of a service outage is anticipated at being greater than 80%.

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by shunter1 View Post
    As for installing from a CD remotely, you should get a server that has this functionality built in. HP or Dell servers come to mind -- Dell has iDRAC that does this. (Get the Enterprise version).
    Sounds too expensive. I've been looking at some alternatives to Dell as well, as they seem to rip people off too much, and I dislike how they force people to buy the most expensive enterprise grade HDs as opposed to the ES.2 ones or something else cheaper but still reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by shunter1 View Post
    As for you buying a server in the U.S. to save money and then building it yourself or not building it yourself, I am confused? I.....For you, why dont you buy some Dell servers (and if you are buying 20 of them they will be about the same price as you building it yourself) and pay the DC or someone for 5 hours of installation time to put them on the rack and set up the IP addresses for the onboard KVMs. Seems like a good deal to me or get your butt on an airplane and do it yourself
    What I said was that I'd like the opportunity to do it myself, but I don't have it. I also already inquired to Dell about a volume discount, and the rep said it only applies if each server is over $5k in value - which doesn't suit me.

    As for traveling to another country just to install servers...that's a monumental waste of money and time. With the time this would take plus the cost of the plane tickets there and back, it would be probably 20-30 times more expensive than paying server techs to do it.

    It seems as though paying the DC to do it is my only choice indeed. I will have to look closer into KVM closer to when I begin everything.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Sounds too expensive. I've been looking at some alternatives to Dell as well, as they seem to rip people off too much, and I dislike how they force people to buy the most expensive enterprise grade HDs as opposed to the ES.2 ones or something else cheaper but still reasonable.
    Dell does not rip people. In fact, their server is comparable, if not cheaper, than building yourself. They do not force you to buy anything at all. You can buy your own hard drives and memory if you want to.

    What I said was that I'd like the opportunity to do it myself, but I don't have it. I also already inquired to Dell about a volume discount, and the rep said it only applies if each server is over $5k in value - which doesn't suit me.
    Not true. But since you are not in US, it might be different. But I have enjoyed a lot of discounts from Dell even for order below $1K.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    It sucks that people outside the US are automatically and permanently disadvantaged like this but oh well.

    What is KVM?
    Wow. If you're not sure what a KVM is, then you're really out of your league. Work with some servers yourself and learn the ropes before trying to start a hosting business using someone else's colo.

    Sorry, but I'd really hate to be one of your customers.

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  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Sounds too expensive. I've been looking at some alternatives to Dell as well, as they seem to rip people off too much, and I dislike how they force people to buy the most expensive enterprise grade HDs as opposed to the ES.2 ones or something else cheaper but still reasonable..

    I'm really trying to help you out! It is not too expensive; Dell is cheaper than doing it yourself. It sounds expensive and maybe thats why you think home brew is better?

    You complain that flying to the DC is a "monumental waste of time" but then you want to home-brew and waste your time and then waste your money by buying components and paying the DC to do more work. So I am going to tell it to you straight -- Dell is going to be your best and cheapest option. .

    I just cant see how a home brew system, a KVM over IP, and paying the DC extra to install is better than buying the right gear from Dell.

    Figure out what it will cost you to do it in pieces like you are thinking, deduct 20% from that, call Dell and work with their rep offering to pay 80% of what "your home brew cost" is, and be happy if it gets to 90-95%. You save money and time -- exactly what you are concerned about.

  25. #150
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    starcraftmazer should have his own thread to discuss all of this. This thread was started to discuss something else and it's being used for stuff that's way off topic..

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