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  1. #1

    RackShack NIGHTMARE! Involved with spews

    So I've been with rackshack like 10 months or so.

    7 months of that time I was hosting someones dns for one of their domains. All of a sudden, spews considers the domain 'related to spam' and lists my RS ips and the /24. So rackshack turns my server OFF.

    I emailed them a ton of times, told them I would make the person change the domain, so they turned my server back on.

    Everything seemed fine. Then today, they turn it off AGAIN. Citing I was still violating just because my crap is listed still I guess. I can't get spews to remove it! I didn't know what to do!

    Almost a year with rackshack and they dropped us with a quickness.

    The domain we were hosting wasn't even involved in spam! So ridiculous.

    My ip: 207.44.140.112 (it's still in spews, shocker.)

    So beware, I'm sure it will happen again. Spews thinks you're involved or linked to some company that may be spamming or could be, they'll screw you and don't count on rs to back you up.

  2. #2
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    RackShack NIGHTMARE! Involved with spews
    So I've been with rackshack like 10 months or so.

    7 months of that time I was hosting someones dns for one of their domains. All of a sudden, spews considers the domain 'related to spam' and lists my RS ips and the /24. So rackshack turns my server OFF.

    I emailed them a ton of times, told them I would make the person change the domain, so they turned my server back on.

    Everything seemed fine. Then today, they turn it off AGAIN. Citing I was still violating just because my crap is listed still I guess. I can't get spews to remove it! I didn't know what to do!

    Almost a year with rackshack and they dropped us with a quickness.

    The domain we were hosting wasn't even involved in spam! So ridiculous.

    My ip: 207.44.140.112 (it's still in spews, shocker.)

    So beware, I'm sure it will happen again. Spews thinks you're involved or linked to some company that may be spamming or could be, they'll screw you and don't count on rs to back you up.
    Doing a whois

    http://www.whois.sc/securesockets.net

    It is still listed at your ipaddress.

    The name you are hosting,securesockets.net, has been associated numerous times with spam.

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=SE...sa=G&scoring=d

    And that Whois. is strikingly the same as this one.
    http://www.whois.sc/Unf.net - which is the name servers in question.

    So you got listed twice on spews, two seperate ip addresses, two seperate domains. Can I ask your hosting site? Because you claim you hosted their dns, does that mean hosted as in controlled, or hosted their actual dns servers?

    You are mad that after two strikes and a seemingly long time to fix the issue, you still didn't so they didn't give you a third strike?

    Chet

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    2

    Rackshack Nightmare! Involved with spews

    webhosterz,
    We made several attempts to contact you.

    5/16/03-11:58:43 AM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    5/15/03 2:23:22 PM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    5/12/03 9:59:33 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    4/30/03-1:31:25 PM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    4/24/03 11:16:38 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases


    We gave you plenty of opportunities to respond and remove everything that was listed in spews.org. You never responded to any of the emails that were sent to the address we have for you on account. It took us unplugging your server to get you to respond to us.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    2,677
    So in other words, RackShack did the right thing here....although I know some companies would have unplugged and kicked you out the door on the first one. They gave you a chance to clear it up...but it appears you chose not to.

    Why do people continue to always blame the company instead of taking responsibility for their actions?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    3,085
    wow... has anyone noticed the increase in BS posts? IE: a guy complains about a $75 restore because he rm -rf'ed his whole drive, saying it's not his fault.

    A guy DNS hosts spam, continues to do so, and complains his box gets shut down.

    There were some more, too... geeze.

  6. #6

    Re: Rackshack Nightmare! Involved with spews

    Originally posted by Chrisn-EV1
    webhosterz,
    We made several attempts to contact you.

    5/16/03-11:58:43 AM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    5/15/03 2:23:22 PM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    5/12/03 9:59:33 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    4/30/03-1:31:25 PM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    4/24/03 11:16:38 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases


    We gave you plenty of opportunities to respond and remove everything that was listed in spews.org. You never responded to any of the emails that were sent to the address we have for you on account. It took us unplugging your server to get you to respond to us.
    What was I supposed to do? I never received the first email, and after that, I had done everything in my power to fix this.

    Why would you kill a customer that had no involvement and tried to fix the problem.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by savageghost
    So in other words, RackShack did the right thing here....although I know some companies would have unplugged and kicked you out the door on the first one. They gave you a chance to clear it up...but it appears you chose not to.

    Why do people continue to always blame the company instead of taking responsibility for their actions?
    I cleared it up, killed the dns. What more is there to do? I posted on the newsgroup to get removed, but nothing came of it.
    Last edited by webhosterz; 05-16-2003 at 05:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    2,677
    When your box got turned off after the first offense, did you contact spews? At this point, you were aware of the violation and which ip/user was responsible for it. It is therefore your responsibility to ensure that the offending party is removed and attempt to get the IP and domain out of spews.

    It is unclear, from what we see here, if you took action to remove the offender. Even if you did, your comment above tells us you made no attempt to resolve the issue through spews. RS gave you the information necessary to resolve the issue when the first offense occured. It is your responsibility, not theirs, to follow up and make the appropriate adjustments to get the info out of spews.

    EDIT: You posted while I was typing that...just posting the info on spews is not enough. It is your responsibilty to make sure the information there get's updated and corrected.

    Say your name got listed on a bankruptcy list (just an example). Would you simply send them a quick note asking to be removed but never following up on it?

    The other side is that this was the second offense, meaning even if you had cleared the first one, you allowed it to happen again.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by savageghost
    When your box got turned off after the first offense, did you contact spews? At this point, you were aware of the violation and which ip/user was responsible for it. It is therefore your responsibility to ensure that the offending party is removed and attempt to get the IP and domain out of spews.

    It is unclear, from what we see here, if you took action to remove the offender. Even if you did, your comment above tells us you made no attempt to resolve the issue through spews. RS gave you the information necessary to resolve the issue when the first offense occured. It is your responsibility, not theirs, to follow up and make the appropriate adjustments to get the info out of spews.

    EDIT: You posted while I was typing that...just posting the info on spews is not enough. It is your responsibilty to make sure the information there get's updated and corrected.

    Say your name got listed on a bankruptcy list (just an example). Would you simply send them a quick note asking to be removed but never following up on it?

    The other side is that this was the second offense, meaning even if you had cleared the first one, you allowed it to happen again.
    I did everything I could. I could do NOTHING else.

    So you got listed twice on spews, two seperate ip addresses, two seperate domains. Can I ask your hosting site? Because you claim you hosted their dns, does that mean hosted as in controlled, or hosted their actual dns servers?
    They listed unf.net because source.unf.net was the nameserver for securesockets.net. No other reason.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,677
    First off...there is no reason to quote my whole post as you are posting right below it and it is easily viewed (sorry...just a petpeave).

    Second, you did not do everything you could. Posting once, in spews "newsgroup" is hardly doing "everything you could".

    Any host that get's listed, and it can happen through no fault of the host...sometimes the boo boos get in before you catch them, needs to make sure they get the listing removed. Don't just post a message and be done with it. You MUST follow up to see what has been done. Escalate the issue if it is not being handled. Don't just sit back with the impression it is fixed from a newsgroup post. You owe it to your customers and yourself to get off that list as soon as possible. The longer and more frequent you are there, the more business you will lose out on as your clients emails will be blocked because they are coming from an IP that has allowed spam.

  11. #11
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    Oct 2002
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    Behind You
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    webhosterz, unf.net and securesockets.net - have the same admin contact info in the whois. Are you saying they are not owned by the same people? If so, why the same contact info?

    Savageghost, by the way, I reposted his entire first post in my reply as I have seen people edit their first posts later to try and cover their tracks.

    Chet

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Chet...that's cool, I noticed he changed at least one of them further down.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Kirkland, WA
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    By the way...getting your IP removed from spews.org is nearly impossible. So you might as well given up, you should have taken a clue the first time, now you are screwed

    At one point I was being hosted by a company who hosted spammers, that got my IP into spews, and I had to get a whole new /24 just to get out of that block, even though I changed hosts

    spews < * , but spamming < spews < *.

    So therefore, don't spam.

    cheers,
    nick

  14. #14

    Re: Rackshack Nightmare! Involved with spews

    Originally posted by Chrisn-EV1
    webhosterz,
    We made several attempts to contact you.

    5/16/03-11:58:43 AM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    5/15/03 2:23:22 PM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    5/12/03 9:59:33 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases
    4/30/03-1:31:25 PM - RackShack - Online - Dedicated RaQ - Unplug
    4/24/03 11:16:38 AM - Abuse-Warning-Listed in Spam Databases


    We gave you plenty of opportunities to respond and remove everything that was listed in spews.org. You never responded to any of the emails that were sent to the address we have for you on account. It took us unplugging your server to get you to respond to us.

    Chris is a good standup guy, Rackshack isn't a "Crazy Anti-Spam Nazi group" Or anything. Simply put as stated above, you hosted a known spammer, you got listed. They Told you, they told you again. You didn't resolve it, your late action or inaction (as it appears) is what caused you to get pulled,not spews, not anyone but the actions you decided to take.

    Sorry, but I am glad my inbox isnt filled with spam

  15. #15
    Originally posted by snickn
    By the way...getting your IP removed from spews.org is nearly impossible. So you might as well given up, you should have taken a clue the first time, now you are screwed

    At one point I was being hosted by a company who hosted spammers, that got my IP into spews, and I had to get a whole new /24 just to get out of that block, even though I changed hosts

    spews < * , but spamming < spews < *.

    So therefore, don't spam.

    cheers,
    nick
    I always hear that from people, the Spews will never remove you once they list you line. I find that out of place and innaccurate.

    In your specific case are you forgeting to say you where hosting spammers? did you make light of your case? where you were being listed for No reason after changing providers and having no spammers on your net?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    California
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    I don't see why people post these threads. You got your hand caught in the cookie jar and now you want them to pay for it? Why? It may not be your direct fault that there was a spammer on your server, but it is YOUR server. You are responsible for it, and you are responsible for getting Spews to remove it. It's not RS' job to do your work for you. They need to stop the spam at the source, which is your server. If you want it back on, then talk to Spews to get the record removed!
    I wish all my traffic went through AS174.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    309

    Thumbs up Nice to see this from Rs...

    I hate spammer
    As tell by other this can append to any of us,

    But Rs have done the right way to handle this then got no reply..

    Thumbs up for the notice from RS this should be done every time, server are so important then when 150 or 200 customer web site are on it, nothing is more important...

    If a thing like this append to me all i need is a notice !
    But be sure i will act right away to fix the problem !


  18. #18
    hosting dns sounds so innocuous - it is not. you, in fact, were the primary host for that operation - you and only you have enabled them to function this whole time. they could always sign up with new hosts as they were being terminated at the last one and they wouldnt care, because they could just edit the zones on your box and point their domain to their newest victim ... err ... host. if you do not know enough to realize this, you should not be running a hosting company.

    with that said, getting delisted from spews is close to impossible. they are a bunch of morons and their blanket bans on huge spans of address space are plain ridiculous. however, they hit the nail on the head with this one.

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

    dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters

  19. #19
    Originally posted by rusko
    with that said, getting delisted from spews is close to impossible.
    No, it's really not "close to impossible" at all.

    .

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Brownsville, TX
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    24
    Originally posted by SolidJoe
    I don't see why people post these threads. You got your hand caught in the cookie jar and now you want them to pay for it? Why? It may not be your direct fault that there was a spammer on your server, but it is YOUR server. You are responsible for it, and you are responsible for getting Spews to remove it. It's not RS' job to do your work for you. They need to stop the spam at the source, which is your server. If you want it back on, then talk to Spews to get the record removed!

    Solidjoe, the problem here is that Spews is listing the domains as well as the nameservers that are listed under the abusive domain, the nameservers are not at fault. They provide a service and the domain holder is responsible for their actions. Just like an ISP, if they catch some freak using there service to host child pornography who is at fault? The ISP? (in your mind probably) I don't think it is the ISP's fault because they provide a service in exchange for payment. Now in cases where the ISP does not take action against the individual, that is a different story. Perhaps you will never know what it is like until you -yourself- fall into a similar situation, but of course you won't, right SolidJoe ? Because you're flawless.
    ______________________
    Network Specialist II
    Abel Jr. A+ , N+

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    California
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    2,005
    I don't try and pawn off my faults to another. The issue here lies with Spews. They have your host listed - whether they are right or wrong, RS doesn't have the luxury of deciding this. Their objective is clear.
    I wish all my traffic went through AS174.

  22. #22

    Not close to impossible?

    Hi there

    I think it would be useful to have a "How to" if your IP address(es) do get listed under SPEWS. I think that the SPEWS organisation is a good idea, in principal, because we need to fight back against spammers. The problem, from what I can see, is that people who are running genuine, decent websites can get caught up in it. We had our server with a dedicated server co that will remain nameless who's enter IP pool (right phrase?) got listed under SPEWS. Turns out that they did have spammers on their network, unknown to us, and it caused us huge problems in lost signups to one of our sites (as some of the autoresponse confirmation emails were not getting through). Obviously our answer has been to look for another provider to host our server, but I think that it's a shame that people like us suffer by the blanket IPs that SPEWS often do. We had checked out our dedicated co as much as possible (in WHT actually) before we went with them and everyone thought (and still thinks) that they are a reputable company.

    That being said, if a spammer does end up on a box and the IP does get listed under SPEWS, what is the best way (after removing the spammer of course!) to get de-listed? Bearing in mind that you might have 150+ clients on one box that could be impacted, what is the quickest way of proving that you have complied?

    Mark

  23. #23
    Originally posted by rusko
    hosting dns sounds so innocuous - it is not. you, in fact, were the primary host for that operation - you and only you have enabled them to function this whole time. they could always sign up with new hosts as they were being terminated at the last one and they wouldnt care, because they could just edit the zones on your box and point their domain to their newest victim ... err ... host. if you do not know enough to realize this, you should not be running a hosting company.

    with that said, getting delisted from spews is close to impossible. they are a bunch of morons and their blanket bans on huge spans of address space are plain ridiculous. however, they hit the nail on the head with this one.

    paul
    I had also had the same thoughs as far as DNS goes, I mean after all DNS is basically just a telephone book. But if you are the SOA for the records then you are publishing the book. Hense noone can get to it if YOU where not publishing it.

    Lots of people do not share your feeling on spews, if they did, it would be such a pain for Hosts/ISPs when they get listed.

    With that said, in my previous employment in charge of abuse and security for a Backbone, I had a few problems where they where slow removing the listing, but never had a problem that Upon investigation one of our customers was not offending and violating out AUP...

    //Dave

  24. #24
    I think that places like spews should be a little more careful. Blocking a whole subnet for one IP is just plain wrong.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    Originally posted by Indotek
    I think that places like spews should be a little more careful. Blocking a whole subnet for one IP is just plain wrong.
    Yes! Let's abolish free speech! Who wants to go burn some books?

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