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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Gilroy CA.
    Posts
    468
    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    I'm not going to pick apart the initial actions on part of GoDaddy, however, the way they handled the call was more than adequate.

    As a former call center manager, I can tell you for a fact that no remedial action will be taken against the representatives as a result of this charade. If a customer refuses to listen to a rep as to the proper course of action, disconnecting a call is an approved tactic at almost every company i've ever worked with.

    Next time you have a problem with a company, try behaving appropriately and they might actually help you with your situation. Did you seriously believe they were going to run and fetch the President over a domain name? Accusatory and irate behavior will do nothing but dig a hole for yourself.
    Yes - but you are a cop and cops get away with everything because they have legal immunity to be morons. In the business world if you brun someone then they stop doing business with you. Originally the "course of action" was to wait till Teusday, theve the data center offline for 3 days, and deal with it.
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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    O HI O
    Posts
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by macdonaldp
    Well, Marc saying "YOU took down a whole datacentre" over and over doesn't help the situation at all.
    Why?

    I thnk Marc handled himself quite well given the circumstances. Customer service reps are trained on how to handle these types of situations and some of the comments of these reps are mind boggling.

    Also the rep told him to contact the President of the company. If i am told to contact someone i think it is appropriate to ask for their phone number. Otherwise don't tell me to contact them.
    How many web hosts does it take to screw in a light bulb?
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  3. #28
    Well, Jeff, all I can say is that IF Go Daddy had grounds to pull the server, they should have provided the means to get the server up right away. It seems that datacenters can pull quickly, but take their sweet ol' time in restoring it. That's not right, fine print be darned.

    As for remedial action, it is a shame that that won't happen here. If I were in a supervisory position over that "gentleman", he'd be gone. I've fired employees for less and never thought twice. Customer service is paramount, even when said customer is frustrated and taking it out on you. Easy? No. But good business sense, and it's only right.

    Go Daddy dropped the ball here on so many levels, and perhaps I will look into dropping them altogether. It alarms me that they'd abuse their power to this level.
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    946
    "Resend the damn thing", well that sure is being calm and collective.
    Whose fault is it that you lost the original email in the first place?

    In my experience most companies deal with abuse claims by email and the way this situation panned out is a very good example of why it's done that way.
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  5. #30
    Bottom line: Go Daddy is in the wrong here, as they always are.
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,525
    Marc,

    I will agree that the initial course of action by GoDaddy was flawed, but the behavior by the lower tiered employees was more than appropriate. Large companies do not have people on the floor with the type of override authority you're looking for.

    I deal with situations on a near daily basis that are far more serious than the suspension of any domain name, but I approach them more calmly and perform a little give and take with the parties involved. By doing so, the situation is resolved a lot more smoothly. Is it frustrating? Yes. Do I loose my cool? No.
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by domaincobby
    Bottom line: Go Daddy is in the wrong here, as they always are.
    That really isn't a fair statement. I have never had a problem with godaddy and I have all my domains there (10+.)

    Godaddy is a large company and as such they have certain procedures that must be followed. If the procedures weren't in place abuse claims could become lost.

    Why is it so hard to understand that the employees in the abuse department are the only ones who can turn the domain back on?
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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by stu2
    Yes indeed. But it's not entirely true that you never saw it coming. In another post here you said you'd been warned by GoDaddy about that situation. That may have been the time to have had a backup nameserver in place already, just in case.
    What you are missing is that we promptly removed the phishing site on the customer machine once we got the notification from PayPal & GoDaddy. As far as our abuse admin was concerned, that was the end of the story. The compromised server was cleaned up, patched, and phishing material removed.

    After that, we get another notification the next day from GoDaddy telling us the same thing regarding the same server. Again, there was no evidence of a reoccurance of the phishing site, and even the links they provided were obviously dead.

    We then get another email on Friday telling us that our main domain is suspended. This was NOT expected and took us by surprise. Either GoDaddy doesn't read their abuse responses, or they did not check the links or the server in question before taking action. Either way, it was a shortsided decision on their part since they didn't verify the site was actually disabled days before they shut down our domain in the first place.
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  9. #34
    It's not hard to understand, mac. I've been involved with hosting practically since the darn Internet went commercial. But here's the thing: if the abuse department has the power to take someone's server down at 4:58, they need to have the courtesy to make options available for restoration. Provided that the customer complies with the terms set forth, they should be able to get the server turned back on, or in this case the domain reactivated, instantly, whether it's 5:01, or 1am.

    Bottom line is this: a company like Go Daddy has the resources to have 24/7 sales and support. There is NO EXCUSE for not having a 2nd and 3rd shift for the Abuse department, or at least give override authority to a supervisor on the floor, again provided the terms have been met.

    Why is THAT so hard to understand? It seems darn cowardly to me for the abuse guy at Go Daddy to cut the server or domain, and then be "out of the office" moments later. Pretty cowardly.
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Gilroy CA.
    Posts
    468
    The bottom line is - if you have a customer who gets hacked - do you want GoDaddy taking your data center down because of it?

    I was personally hacked the same way once. PhPBB had an exploit and they wiped a message board. And I consider myself reasonably sharp. (At least sharp enough to have backups.
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  11. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,525
    Marc,

    We lost service to our domain, DNS, support system etc. in the very recent past as the result of a series of DDoS attacks.

    Rather than complain to the companies hosting our offsite support system and related resources, we simply activated backup NS's and notified customers of alternate methods of obtaining support.

    I fail to understand how a DNS issue equates to the entire datacenter being offline..
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    972
    mperkel,

    so how are you related to nectar?

    But I do feel sorry for what godaddy did.
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  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Gilroy CA.
    Posts
    468
    Quote Originally Posted by rois
    mperkel,

    so how are you related to nectar?

    But I do feel sorry for what godaddy did.
    Actually I'm just a customer and have become friends with the owner.
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  14. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ashburn, VA
    Posts
    172
    This seems like an extremely silly problem. I'm amazed that a lawsuit hasn't come out of it already - you'd never expect that a company like godaddy wouldn't first check into the business habits of the domain in question before suspending it.

    I'm not one to make threats - but if I wasn't as reserved as I am in dealing with situations, I could've easily seen a lawsuit threat come out of that phone call. "What if I have my lawyers contact your lawyers, then can I get some contact info?"

    By doing some fairly simple research, one could tell that 1) this domain controls an entire datacenter's dns and 2) nectartech is a pretty large hosting company with many clients - as shown below through a simple lookup on their ip addresses. Seems as though GoDaddy was trying to nose out some of it's competition in the webhosting industry

    root@echo alex # whois 69.50.224.2
    [Querying whois.arin.net]
    [whois.arin.net]
    NECTARTECH SERVICES NECTARTECH-BLK-1 (NET-69-50-224-0-1)
    69.50.224.0 - 69.50.255.255
    NECTARTECH NECTARTECH-INT (NET-69-50-224-0-2)
    69.50.224.0 - 69.50.224.255

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2006-01-13 19:10
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
    root@echo alex #

    Simply a stupid action on GoDaddy's part - in ANY light.

    Makes me question any domain registrar that i'd use just another step further.

    Hope all this is resolved for good, I can tell that you are still using GoDaddy... changing registrars?
    Alexander McMillen
    President and CEO - Sliqua Enterprise Hosting, Inc. - AS32740
    Serving up scale and service since 2002. Is your mission critical?
    1-877-4-SLIQUA - http://www.sliqua.com - http://www.isyourmissioncritical.com
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Gilroy CA.
    Posts
    468
    I'm sure that by tomorrow that Nectartech won't be listed with GoDaddy.
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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,525
    I get the feeling they won't mind
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  17. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    972
    Quote Originally Posted by mperkel
    Actually I'm just a customer and have become friends with the owner.
    Ah... thats what I thought. But its really surprising that Godaddy never questioned who you are and how you got hold of the last 4 digits of the CC no seeing that your name, I would assume, is not even listed in the account details.

    But good to see a client who actually goes out of their way to help his provider. Not often we see things like this happening
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Gilroy CA.
    Posts
    468
    Nick gave me all the ID info. I'm usually pretty good at getting people to do things. And it did work to some extent. They told him it would take 3 days. They are back online after one day.
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  19. #44
    I was kind of Godaddy fan since when I started to come into web development area but I hate them now.There are lots of datacenters better then Godaddy and I love Directi
    http://www.webdtalk.com - The Web Development Talk
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  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    285
    In my opinion it's unacceptable. I don't think they should even have the power to shut down a site because of phishing, spam or anything. A domain is some data pointing to an IP. It is not a server or a backbone. If someone had a problem with abuse, godaddy should stick out of it and let the backbone/datacenter deal with it. Also, I find it strange that a datacenter would buy from a domain site instead of buying either a Enom reseller account or directly from ICANN. If I were you, Nectar. I would contact ICANN about this. Also about the abuse, the abuse department should always be online, 24/7 aswel to defend or reactivate the account. If I was incharge of the datacenter, I would talk to my lawer about sueing godaddy for damages.
    Thanks
    Kevin
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    288
    GoDaddy Sucks, plain and simple, they can have all the soft-core porn Super Bowl commercials they want, but they still suck.

    The will probably tell Nectar he has to wait 60 days to transfer since it was taken down as spam.
    No Signature Required
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  22. #47
    This entire situation is insane. Its hard to know whether or not GoDaddy acted inappropriately, since we have NONE of the intial contacts or warnings and we only have a small glimpse of what the actual abuse was.

    However, GoDaddy showed an incredible amount of patience with Marc.
    He refused to even try to follow their proceedures.
    He was uncooperative and accusatory.
    He simply demanded, repeatedly, that they do it his way and accused them of taking a data center offline.

    He kept repeating over and over that it is an Emergency and kept accusing the GoDaddy rep of not considering it an Emergency.
    Two things apply here: a) Why didnt Marc's friend consider it an emergency when he got the Warning? b) Poor response from the customer, does not constitute an emergency for the providor.

    We have glimpses of warnings, we have no idea how long ago the warnings were issued, or how quickly or slowly the host acted.

    Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I was not aware that GoDaddy had contacts at the power company. Cutting power is the only way I know of to take an entire data center offline.

    The fact is, they did not take a data center offline. They suspended a domain, which cascaded into a data center being offline.

    If taking a domain offline, takes out an entire data center, then that hosting company has bigger issues than GoDaddy.

    I am suprised that the GoDaddy reps hung in there as long as they did. Their reps deserve a day off with pay.

    Sorry Marc, as much as I want to be for the under dog, I cannot support your conduct in this matter.

    I'm sure you will disagree, and you have that right.
    It was said earlier, and I agree, .. Your conduct was condusive to getting your mission accomplished and I believe you actually caused the situation to be protracted rather than shortened.

    I seriously doubt that GoDaddy took the domain offline with little or no warning.

    And, Marc, regardless of 'all' of the above... register a new domain, and update the NS entries for the affected domains and the problem goes away.... I seriously doubt that you have 100's of 1000's of domains affected, but if so.. ok, use the mass change feature at the registrar. The problem is resolved in minutes, pending cache expiration. Rather than the hours and days you spent fighting with GoDaddy.
    Last edited by DiverGuy; 01-14-2006 at 10:24 PM.
    John Blazek
    Auroralink Communications
    Shell & Web Hosting
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  23. #48

    Well....

    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    I get the feeling they won't mind
    What would you have Nectartech do? Roll over and say "Thank you, Bob! May I have another?"

    As a police officer, surely you know that there's two sides to every story. Now, the phone calls showed Go Daddy's arrogant, and abusive attitude.

    Just 5 minutes of research on their part would have prevented this whole mess from happening, but I guess that's what happens when you choose a registrar for your web hosting entitity that also happens to be a host themselves.

    Go Daddy needs to seriously revise its business practices, or at the very least revisit their abuse procedures.
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    We lost service to our domain, DNS, support system etc. in the very recent past as the result of a series of DDoS attacks.

    ...

    I fail to understand how a DNS issue equates to the entire datacenter being offline..
    There's a bit of a difference between that situation and what has been described in this thread. The registrar controls the insertion of your domain name servers into the root DNS servers. If the registrar hijacks your account, it wouldn't matter if you had 600 backup servers ready to go -- nobody will every be able to find out about them.

    So for the average Nectartech customer hosting mydomain.tld, they would have registered ns1.nectartech.com and ns2.nectartech.com as their nameservers with their registrar. Problem is when GoDaddy removed the root name server entries for nectartech, they also killed the ability for anybody using their DNS servers from being resolved as well.

    True, from a machine uptime and connectivity standpoint there was no downtime incurred, but if nobody can resolve your site name and make it to your server you might as well be down.

    Eric
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  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by domaincobby
    Now, the phone calls showed Go Daddy's arrogant, and abusive attitude.

    Just 5 minutes of research on their part would have prevented this whole mess from happening, but I guess that's what happens when you choose a registrar for your web hosting entitity that also happens to be a host themselves.

    Go Daddy needs to seriously revise its business practices, or at the very least revisit their abuse procedures.
    You must have listened to different recordings than I did.
    First, we did not hear any of the initial calls. Clearly the two calls we got were not the first.

    How many people record phone calls? Marc was clearly 'ready' to record these calls, indicating that he got the outcome he expected. And, from his tone, he got the outcome he intended.

    How could 5 minutes of research have prevented anything? Do you know who was phishing? Do you know which server was used? Which domain was used? How many warnings were sent? How much time elapsed?

    How can you jump to a fair conclusion without all these facts?

    Marc put more energy into fighting with GoDaddy than he did trying to get the situation fixed.
    John Blazek
    Auroralink Communications
    Shell & Web Hosting
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