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Thread: Magento Hosting

  1. #1
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    Magento Hosting

    Are there any things to look out for when hosting a magento ecommerce site?

    Magento is quite heavy weight compared to other carts.

    So will I need a dedicated magento host?
    Will shared be enough? Currently the traffic isnt so much, around 3000 visits and around 170 products but that's likely to go up.

    At the moment its hosted at hetnzer for around £50pm. Any savings would be nice and some clarifications into what to look for when hosting a magento site.

  2. #2
    Shared hosting won't do, that's for sure. Magento is resource-intensive as you already know. What are your current server's specs? Is your site running well on Hetzner or are you having issues?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by abushahin View Post
    Are there any things to look out for when hosting a magento ecommerce site?

    Magento is quite heavy weight compared to other carts.

    So will I need a dedicated magento host?
    Will shared be enough? Currently the traffic isnt so much, around 3000 visits and around 170 products but that's likely to go up.

    At the moment its hosted at hetnzer for around £50pm. Any savings would be nice and some clarifications into what to look for when hosting a magento site.
    You can build/deploy your magento cart on a shared platform form, however once you are ready to start adding a large amount of inventory, I would definitely recommend a VPS or in your case, you would need a fully managed VPS.

  4. #4
    It sounds like things are running fine for you now on your VPS, but you are planning for the future and its growth? If thats what you are after then yes I would recommend a dedicated server if your budget allows it. Magento is CPU intensive, something like an E3 dedicated server would be a good fit for you and allow you plenty of room to grow and bursts in traffic.

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    thanks for the reply guys. It is actually more than fine at the moment if anything I think we are paying more than we need to, and if we can save a little then maybe we can spend that towards adwords/marketing, which is why I'd like to try and find out if I can go to a cheaper server.

    For a VPS what sort of specs would I need with this kind of traffic and inventory? Am I looking at around 1 processor with 1GB ram? Something that can scale would be great too.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by abushahin View Post
    thanks for the reply guys. It is actually more than fine at the moment if anything I think we are paying more than we need to, and if we can save a little then maybe we can spend that towards adwords/marketing, which is why I'd like to try and find out if I can go to a cheaper server.

    For a VPS what sort of specs would I need with this kind of traffic and inventory? Am I looking at around 1 processor with 1GB ram? Something that can scale would be great too.
    If you dont have cPanel installed on the VPS, you should be able to get away with 1GB no problem, however if you are going to have cPanel (or some type of other panel), I would throw on an extra 1GB just to be on the safe side (in terms of memory).

  7. #7
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    It seems like every couple weeks we see one of these posts were people tell you how you cant run Magento in Shared Hosting.

    They're right, you cant. At least not on 'thier' shared hosting.

    Your needs are minimal and there is no reason that a true performance based shared host couldn't host this site for $10/mo - $25/mo, depending on a couple of factors, 'VERY WELL'.

    Those hosts and people who say you 'cant' or that you need a 'VPS" don't have a clue what they are talking about. It's maddening.

    Magento runs PERFECTLY under shared hosting. Here's a perfect example of a $10/mo shared hosting account running Magento.

    http://www.alfaperry.com

    These guys who are trying to tell you it can't be done are about to start getting dressed down. It probably can't be done on 'THEIR' hosting service - that's reasonable. But for them to say 'it cant be done' period, that's FUD, clearly.

    Don't buy into their hype.
    Last edited by Slicie_Rick; 01-18-2015 at 04:05 AM.

  8. #8
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    The only people that think Magento works "fine" in a generic shared hosting plan are those that have never admin'd a Magento site. It runs really, really slow on standard shared hosting.

    It's a hog.

    Magento needs lots of special caching and tweaking to work well. It's not your average CMS like WordPress or Joomla.

    I'm still shocked at how a single script with 0 product is 10k files. Then it wants to eat all the RAM it can find.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    The only people that think Magento works "fine" in a generic shared hosting plan are those that have never admin'd a Magento site. It runs really, really slow on standard shared hosting.

    It's a hog.

    Magento needs lots of special caching and tweaking to work well. It's not your average CMS like WordPress or Joomla.

    I'm still shocked at how a single script with 0 product is 10k files. Then it wants to eat all the RAM it can find.
    Well, I'm sorry this has been your experience, but is has not been your experience with us.

    We host around 10,000 Magento sites, sooo... let's not get into all that.

    Magento needs to be run on a well tuned, performance based system. Not a normal shared host like you are probably used to judging from your suggestions and recommendations.

    I don't mean to be harsh, but can you tell me the problem with the $10/mo account I linked to above?

    I pretty much take offense to your post. We've been running specialized Magento hosting since it was called Varien and was in beta. We've hosted a ton of Magento sites and we host some of the BIGGEST Magento sites online, so please keep those jabs to a minimum. I'll do the same.

    It sounds to me like you have have very little experience with hosting Magento and that little experience you do have is on average hosts.

    You aren't doing anyone a service by saying it can't be done - it just can't be done on your 'host of the week' list - they are not capable because they allow 128M of of PHP memory, run Apache with some poor install of PHP and a stock, outdated version of MySQL on cheap consumer grade hardware. Don't worry, I've looked into your recommendations so I'm pretty sure about this.

    You give a lot of good advice, but, you are giving some seriously messed up information when it comes to Magento based on your 'host of the week' recommendations.

    I'll completely agree with you. Magento CAN NOT be run on a low end, standard shared hosting account for 1.99/mo. But, it CAN and IS run on $10/mo accounts ALL the time. Above is an an example for you. So, in part, you are right - but you are painting with a very wide brush and it's catching some significant contenders who could blow you away with what they can do with Magento in Shared hosting, and I'm talking about 100,000+ SKU's and 5 minute cron entries.

    Some of us actually build systems that do exactly this and it's like getting a chest wax to read you tell me I don't know what I am talking about.
    Last edited by Slicie_Rick; 01-18-2015 at 04:36 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    Well, I'm sorry this has been your experience, but is has not been your experience with us.

    We host around 10,000 Magento sites, sooo... let's not get into all that.

    Magento needs to be run on a well tuned, performance based system. Not a normal shared host like you are probably used to judging from your suggestions and recommendations.

    I don't mean to be harsh, but can you tell me the problem with the $10/mo account I linked to above?

    I pretty much take offense to your post. We've been running specialized Magento hosting since it was called Varien and was in beta. We've hosted a ton of Magento sites and we host some of the BIGGEST Magento sites online, so please keep those jabs to a minimum. I'll do the same.

    It sounds to me like you have have very little experience with hosting Magento and that little experience you do have is on average hosts.

    You aren't doing anyone a service by saying it can't be done - it just can't be done on your 'host of the week' list - they are not capable because they allow 128M of of PHP memory, run Apache with some poor install of PHP and a stock, outdated version of MySQL on cheap consumer grade hardware. Don't worry, I've looked into your recommendations so I'm pretty sure about this.

    You give a lot of good advice, but, you are giving some seriously messed up information when it comes to Magento based on your 'host of the week' recommendations.

    I'll completely agree with you. Magento CAN NOT be run on a low end, standard shared hosting account for 1.99/mo. But, it CAN and IS run on $10/mo accounts ALL the time. Above is an an example for you. So, in part, you are right - but you are painting with a very wide brush and it's catching some significant contenders who could blow you away with what they can do with Magento in Shared hosting, and I'm talking about 100,000+ SKU's and 5 minute cron entries.

    Some of us actually build systems that do exactly this and it's like getting a chest wax to read you tell me I don't know what I am talking about.
    I take it you couldn't care less about anybody else's opinions as your clearly the one in the right. It can be run on a shared hosting plan obviously - that isn't rocket science and providing the server is well specced and has minimal accounts on it - it will run absolutely fine. The issue comes when it starts doing what it does best - eating resources for the fun of it and that once profitable customer no longer is so, and you politely ask them to upgrade. Why people in their right mind run Magento in the first place is beyond me! It's downright awful and there are much faster lighter scripts out there that do a better job. And yes we host Magento sites on many platforms
    Every single Magento site is different as is its requirements, that goes for pretty much every website we host.
    If your business model works for you great, that doesn't give you the right to question other people's.

  11. #11
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    Magento is really, really good for inventory management and CRM. It's not just a shopping cart. If that's all a person needs, then WooCommerce in WordPress is probably fine.

    Remember that Magento is commercial software that ALSO has a free version.

    It reminds me of commercials CMS' that I've used in the past ($50k+). The code is thick. That's because it does so many things.

    Suggesting that I don't have knowledge on this is laughable.

    Nexcess is the only true "Magento host" that I'm aware of, and Magento themselves recommend it. (BTW, Magento is NOT like WordPress/etc, and do NOT recommend hosts based on payouts. Nexcess is really the only shared host on there.)

    Pretty much any cPanel/Plesk shared platform is going to run like crap. You need to have far more resources, and you need to push the panel. Better yet, use it panel-less.

  12. #12
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    I seem to remember Magento requiring 4gb or more to run nice and stable. So you need a beefy VPS at a minimum.

  13. #13
    We have a customer that used Magento. We are hosting his site on Hostdime shared hosting. It used 150+ GB bandwith per month and works satble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    The only people that think Magento works "fine" in a generic shared hosting plan are those that have never admin'd a Magento site. It runs really, really slow on standard shared hosting.

    It's a hog.

    Magento needs lots of special caching and tweaking to work well. It's not your average CMS like WordPress or Joomla.

    I'm still shocked at how a single script with 0 product is 10k files. Then it wants to eat all the RAM it can find.
    My good friend is magento certified developer working only with magento sites for last 2 almost 3 years and what kpmedia said is 100% true.
    OP if you care for your business keep your magento out of shared hosting if not we will see in you back here complaining how X hosting company ruined your business. Any decent managed VPS or Dedi will fulfill you needs.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Madbunny View Post
    OP if you care for your business keep your magento out of shared hosting if not we will see in you back here complaining how X hosting company ruined your business. Any decent managed VPS or Dedi will fulfill you needs.
    Definitely this.

    If your company has hundreds of products and presumably making 4-5 figures a month, then my advice would be don't be a cheap*ss and spend a reasonable amount of money on solid, reliable hosting.

    How many times have we heard the story of a $3/mo summer host completely ruining a "multi-million dollar" online business?

    Oh, and this is not necessarily directed at you, OP. Just a general thought.

    Cheers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulwarkHost-Keith View Post
    Definitely this.

    If your company has hundreds of products and presumably making 4-5 figures a month, then my advice would be don't be a cheap*ss and spend a reasonable amount of money on solid, reliable hosting.

    How many times have we heard the story of a $3/mo summer host completely ruining a "multi-million dollar" online business?
    This is absolutely true.

    We've seen business owners spend $10,000+ on Magento Enterprise Edition and then want to put it on an inexpensive shared hosting platform.

    It's seems with an investment such as that in your business it would be a no brainer to commit a decent hosting budget to make sure you are getting quality, dedicated environment hosting.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post

    I don't mean to be harsh, but can you tell me the problem with the $10/mo account I linked to above?
    That site is slow by my standards. I'm not saying it's an argument for wither magneto can run on shared hosting or not. Just I find that site you linked slow.

    Time to load:
    10.12s (onload: 8.86s)
    8.48s (onload: 9.37s)
    8.85s (onload: 9.62s)

    To me this isn't anywhere close to being acceptable for an online store.

    I have a 30 Mbit internet connection where I am at. (Direct no wireless)

  18. #18
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    I know this con.

    The "shared server" is probably NOT running CloudLinux, and it probably doe NOT have a full load. In effect, you're using dedicated resources. But that will never last once the server is fully utilized by shared accounts. No, not oversold either. You won't get to a full load with Magento sites.

    That site isn't slow according to Pingdom, but I noticed visual sluggishness as well. (Pingdom is good, but not flawless.)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by srpurdy View Post
    That site is slow by my standards. I'm not saying it's an argument for wither magneto can run on shared hosting or not. Just I find that site you linked slow.

    Time to load:
    10.12s (onload: 8.86s)
    8.48s (onload: 9.37s)
    8.85s (onload: 9.62s)

    To me this isn't anywhere close to being acceptable for an online store.

    I have a 30 Mbit internet connection where I am at. (Direct no wireless)
    Interesting - I could have sworn that page worked last night, or I wouldn't have linked to it as an example. And I agree that this is unacceptable for an ecommerce site. I *think* the reason for the slow load time is that the images are being linked through SSL *and* the SSL certificate is expired. Sorry about that.

    That being said - I ran a GTMetrix report on the index page for the sake of interest in your numbers, here's a link to the results.

    GTMetrix Vancouver, Canada location:

    Index: http://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.alfaperry.com/DSlxpOgK
    Page load time: 1.64s
    Total page size: 1.07MB
    Total number of requests: 47

    But, a more meaning full test result would be to an product page - so I ran the same test on the Dress Shirts link which isn't linking to images via SSL.

    Dress Shirts: http://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.alfaperry.com/hdyBej06
    Page load time: 3.41s
    Total page size: 1.11MB
    Total number of requests: 47

    Quite a bit different than the results you got, and the site does respond pretty well just clicking around. I'm not sure where your test was run, but I ran mine from Canada just to try to provide a fair comparison.

    The difference in results is interesting, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    I know this con.
    That's pretty much uncalled for and not very professional.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    The "shared server" is probably NOT running CloudLinux
    It is. I'm not really sure how I can prove that too you - but, I certainly am not lying to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    and it probably doe NOT have a full load.
    Absolutely correct. We don't run our servers under 'full load', ever. That's a pretty poor practice and really hurts performance of all clients on the server. We try to keep servers running at 50% CPU or less for this very reason. If we need to, we just add another server.

    The load on 'this' server, right now is:

    CPU Model : Intel Xeon CPU E3-1270 V2 @ 3.50GHz
    CPU Usage : 15.92%
    I/O Wait : 0.39%

    # uname -a (clould linux)
    Linux phx-1206.split-shared.com 2.6.32-531.1.2.lve1.2.54.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 25 07:41:27 EDT 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

    Fwiw, we also run KernalCare on all of our sysetms.

    # /usr/bin/kcarectl --info
    kpatch-state: patch is applied
    kpatch-for: Linux version 2.6.32-531.1.2.lve1.2.54.el6.x86_64 (mockbuild@koji.cloudlinux.com) (gcc version 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-4)
    kpatch-description: 30;2.6.32-531.29.2.lve1.3.11.1.el6.x86_64+

    Kernel upgrades are done as scheduled maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    In effect, you're using dedicated resources. But that will never last once the server is fully utilized by shared accounts. No, not oversold either. You won't get to a full load with Magento sites.
    That's not really fair to say, you know nothing of our business model.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    That site isn't slow according to Pingdom, but I noticed visual sluggishness as well. (Pingdom is good, but not flawless.)
    I guess all I can really say is to look at the GTMetrix results I provided above.

    Hopefully, you can trust my stats I posted - I did use third party and remote testing. I copied the server stats from the server at the time of this post.
    Last edited by Slicie_Rick; 01-18-2015 at 08:52 PM.

  20. #20
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    I mean "full load" in laymen terms, not tech terms. I refer to the minimum account density required for the server to pay for itself. A stock cPanel/Plesk servers will never get to those numbers with Magento installs, unless they're simply allowed to run slow. Even a semi-dedicated situation may still run rotten unless the panel has been pushed into using "unsupported" mods (Varnish, nginx, MariaDB, etc) by the host. However, almost none do that, as doing so screws up other aspects of a server. Hence a VPS is needed.

    Hosts should know this, yet many do not.

    If you approach an honest host (example: Stablehost), they'll warn you that it will *run*, but maybe not ideal. Shared hosting is simply the wrong environment for this app. You're trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.

    The only exception is maybe a special hosting setup (custom panel, etc) geared for running Magento. Again, that's what 1Nexcess does.

    And it is a con. It's hosting sleight of hand.

    .
    .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    Interesting - I could have sworn that page worked last night, or I wouldn't have linked to it as an example. And I agree that this is unacceptable for an ecommerce site. I *think* the reason for the slow load time is that the images are being linked through SSL *and* the SSL certificate is expired. Sorry about that.

    That being said - I ran a GTMetrix report on the index page for the sake of interest in your numbers, here's a link to the results.

    GTMetrix Vancouver, Canada location:

    Index: http://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.alfaperry.com/DSlxpOgK
    Page load time: 1.64s
    Total page size: 1.07MB
    Total number of requests: 47

    But, a more meaning full test result would be to an product page - so I ran the same test on the Dress Shirts link which isn't linking to images via SSL.

    Dress Shirts: http://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.alfaperry.com/hdyBej06
    Page load time: 3.41s
    Total page size: 1.11MB
    Total number of requests: 47

    Quite a bit different than the results you got, and the site does respond pretty well just clicking around. I'm not sure where your test was run, but I ran mine from Canada just to try to provide a fair comparison.

    The difference in results is interesting, however.



    That's pretty much uncalled for and not very professional.



    It is. I'm not really sure how I can prove that too you - but, I certainly am not lying to you.



    Absolutely correct. We don't run our servers under 'full load', ever. That's a pretty poor practice and really hurts performance of all clients on the server. We try to keep servers running at 50% CPU or less for this very reason. If we need to, we just add another server.

    The load on 'this' server, right now is:

    CPU Model : Intel Xeon CPU E3-1270 V2 @ 3.50GHz
    CPU Usage : 15.92%
    I/O Wait : 0.39%

    # uname -a (clould linux)
    Linux phx-1206.split-shared.com 2.6.32-531.1.2.lve1.2.54.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 25 07:41:27 EDT 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

    Fwiw, we also run KernalCare on all of our sysetms.

    # /usr/bin/kcarectl --info
    kpatch-state: patch is applied
    kpatch-for: Linux version 2.6.32-531.1.2.lve1.2.54.el6.x86_64 (mockbuild@koji.cloudlinux.com) (gcc version 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-4)
    kpatch-description: 30;2.6.32-531.29.2.lve1.3.11.1.el6.x86_64+

    Kernel upgrades are done as scheduled maintenance.



    That's not really fair to say, you know nothing of our business model.



    I guess all I can really say is to look at the GTMetrix results I provided above.

    Hopefully, you can trust my stats I posted - I did use third party and remote testing. I copied the server stats from the server at the time of this post.
    I'm in Canada also. East Coast. Outside Montreal. So that's where the test was run from. You are right. My test was on a product page. It is faster on non-product pages.

    I use gtmetrix also, but you should also look at insights. I got a score of 47/100 for desktop

    https://developers.google.com/speed/...ml&tab=desktop

    Gzip compression would help a lot for the big js file, and it says the server response was 3.1 seconds. Normally under 0.5 is what to expect. It will usually be higher of course under https. I typically have 0.3 or so under https connection. (not magneto though)


    Compressing resources with gzip or deflate can reduce the number of bytes sent over the network.
    Enable compression for the following resources to reduce their transfer size by 542.1KiB (74% reduction).

    Compressing http://www.alfaperry.com/…a/js...a74978f14fa.js could save 542.1KiB (74% reduction).

    Reduce server response time
    In our test, your server responded in 3.1 seconds. There are many factors that can slow down your server response time. Please read our recommendations to learn how you can monitor and measure where your server is spending the most time.
    Last edited by srpurdy; 01-18-2015 at 09:21 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by srpurdy View Post
    I use gtmetrix also, but you should also look at insights. I got a score of 47/100 for desktop
    We'll let keep in mind that this is our most restrictive account type - I'm not claiming that you will get the best performance from budget shared hosting, by any means. Just that Magento can run quite well if it's configured correctly and doesn't get a ton of traffic.

    Quote Originally Posted by srpurdy View Post
    https://developers.google.com/speed/...ml&tab=desktop

    Gzip compression would help a lot for the big js file, and it says the server response was 3.1 seconds. Normally under 0.5 is what to expect. It will usually be higher of course under https. I typically have 0.3 or so under https connection. (not magneto though)
    I absolutely agree. However, I'm not in charge of configuring the setup nor do I have any insight into how they have it setup. It may have exception logging on gzip disabled, caching disable, index's off, etc. It was meant as nothing more than a generic example. I can install a default version and optimize the configuration, but I think that would be crossing the line here.

    Good observations, though. The speed of the site could definitely be improved through some simple Magento configuration settings. That would go further to help my point.
    Last edited by Slicie_Rick; 01-18-2015 at 10:26 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    I'm not claiming that you will get the best performance from budget shared hosting, by any means.
    Just that Magento can run quite well if it's configured correctly and doesn't get a ton of traffic.
    That contradicts your entire post history in this thread. Does is perform well in shared, or doesn't it? You're waffling.

    And traffic has nothing to do with it. At a base load of 0 visitors and 0 products, Magento is still a beast.

    .
    .
    Last edited by kpmedia; 01-18-2015 at 10:27 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    That contradicts your entire post history in this thread. Does is perform well in shared, or doesn't it? You're waffling.
    Ok I tried to help with real world info and unbiased data, but that's not going to be acceptable to you nor anything else I mention. So, you win.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    And traffic has nothing to do with it. At a base load of 0 visitors and 0 products, Magento is still a beast.
    Concurrent traffic has a lot to do with it. Magento is heavy software, I'll agree. it's never going to load in <500ms without some frontside caching. You're right about the number of files and the complex structure of the database. I'll just let my posts stand on their own. There's no contradiction, only clarification and data.

    Best wishes and Happy New Year everyone.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    it's never going to load in <500ms without some frontside caching
    Not on your servers it won't. But it's an obtainable TTFB on the right server configurations without frontside caching.

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