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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    3,381
    The problem with this - and all other 3PP scenarios - is that your business has no relationship with Payzip's merchant processor, bank or MasterCard.

    You are not a merchant nor a customer. Your only relationship is with Payzip and that is one of the huge issues with 3PP processing - lack of accountability when the 3PP goes out of business.

    MasterCard is definitely not going to remit any funds as they were never party to holding them. The issue here is one of risk & loss prevention concerns on the part of Payzip's merchant processor and/or bank and that is why the funds are being held I'm sure.

    And when the remaining funds are finally released - if indeed there are sufficient reserves to cover any losses, these funds will be remitted to Payzip and not to any individual merchants. And at that point, the hope would be that Payzip will disburse them to the merchants in question.

    However, I would honestly not hold out much hope and instead start pursuing other options to get your business back on track as best you can. That's just my opinion but again - I've seen this same 3PP situation play out time and time again exactly in this way and it is really sad.
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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    Yes indeed. I think we can sue PayZip til we are blue in teh face and get nowhere. They can just go bankrupt and that is it. They got $500,000.00 in the frozen account with fines that may be in the millions hitting the bank. Chances are the money will be used to pay MC and even that won't cover the fines. I am convinced the only way we can recuperate any of the moneys is if MC decides not to fine the bank or if we instruct our customers to charge back on their original payments then resubmit payments using a different method. That is of course only the last resort once we know 100% that they money is gone forever. It would help of you guys could find out exactly what bank is teh account with and phone numbers, URLs for it.

    mili
    Last edited by mili; 02-21-2006 at 08:20 PM.
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  3. #28
    We have email them yesterday and hopefully they will soon respond positively to the refund request. Is Singapore law protecting this kind of problems? Has it happened before in Singapore with another provider?
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    Maxhenry what is your malfunction? The account is frozen. No moneys are going in or out, no refunds or payouts are happening.

    mili
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  5. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    33
    I was in Singapore last monday depositing 10.000euros at the payzip account at the HSBC bank. Already by then the HSBC staff needed authorization to deposit the cash, and it took like 20-30min before they were authorized to do so. I suspects that Payzip had their account frozen already by then!
    Last edited by JSF2000; 02-22-2006 at 05:54 AM.
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    So what you are saying is that PayZip has the acount in question at HSBC in Singapore? THey said the account that got frozen is in Europe. Can you please tell us what account number you deposited the money into exactly? When I asked about the bank I got this lettr from them:
    "Dear Mili,

    I am not allowed to disclose our bank information.

    Please be assured that we are persuing an official letter from the
    relevant departments with the bank to show all our sellers (we have a
    few requests for this).

    Our board is also holding high level meetings with them over the phone
    to discuss release of funds but I won't have any further information
    until the board give us a briefing on the outcome.

    Sorry I am not much help on this.

    Best regards,

    Jamie Lee
    Payzip.net/ Payzip Private Limited"

    I don't think PayZip had all their moneys in one bank. It would be nice to know how many accounts they got as even if the one in Europe gets confiscated they should be able to pay at least some of our moneys out from other accounts.

    mili
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    33
    Milli,

    For incomming transfers payzip has 6 account no.'s for incomming wire transfers, a SGD, EUR, GBP, USD, AUD and a HKD account. All accounts are with HSBC in Singapore. Funds were deposited to their euros account.

    I don't know what other accounts they might have in Europe, the ones mentioned are the ones they've provided.

    I'm not saying that the accounts in Singapore are at question, it might have been because of the relativly large amount of cash, but it seemed quite ought though.
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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    In what case would people be depositing cash into their payzip account? To send money to relatives or why? Can you please provide us with as many account numbers as possible? I just can't believe they would keep all their moneys in one single account.

    mili
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    33
    The account no.'s are :

    SGD : 041-736760-001
    EUR : 260-422381-182
    GBP : 260-422381-179
    USD : 260-422381-178
    AUD : 260-422381-180
    HKD : 260-422381-181

    If your corporation is selling goods at hand, and you don't want the money to figure in the companies own bank account - then it's a good idea to deposit the funds to an account like payzip's.
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    Thank you for the info. We are now waiting for PayZip to convey any subtantial information. Time is running out though. As I understand their bank entertains a 1 year charge back period. If moneys are not going to be forthcoming we will have to instruct our customers to mass charge back. It wont be pretty. but if I have to chose between my wife's chemo therapy or being pretty I chose to be ugly.

    mili
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  11. #36

    Payzip Merchant

    Dear Payzip Merchants,

    I am as well a payzip merchant and "waiting" to get our money back... Is there anything we can do at the moment? Or anyting we can do together (all merchants). Webhostingtalk is the only place I could find some imputs regarding our problems does anyone has a good idea to get the money back?

    Thank you very much,
    Roger
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    This is what I and a few others will do on MOnday please read my correspondances:
    ___________
    Well lets hope they will let us know what is going on before the weekend or
    all of us will have to ask our customers to start a mass charge back and try
    recuperating some of the money. This is a disaster.

    mili
    ____________
    Dear Mili,
    >
    > We haven't heard from the bank about our existing account and the frozen
    > funds. Our directors have sent them a second reminder to reply. Please
    > be patient with us while we do our utmost to resolve this with the bank.

    > Best regards,
    > Jamie Lee
    > Payzip.net/ Payzip Private Limited
    _____________________
    Hi Jamie

    I need to know if anything positive has happened please.

    mili
    ____________________
    > Dear Mili,
    >
    > I regret to inform that I have no further updates. I am following up
    > very closely and will keep in touch as soon as I receive instructions
    > from the board.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Jamie Lee
    > Payzip.net/ Payzip Private Limited
    ________________________
    Jamie I will wait until Sunday late night to hear from you, that is Monday
    mornign your time. If nothing moves then we all will instruct our customers
    to mass charge back going back a year. That will unfortunately not help your
    situation but may help us to recover some of our money.s

    mili
    _________________

    So as time goes by there is less and less chance for moneys to be paid out. Another merchant told me today:

    I talked to Mastercard International headquarters last week and they suggested that if Mastercard does fine PayZip and uses our funds to pay them, that we could subpeona Mastercard for the money payzip owes to us. This was only a recommendation, but something I am going to look into more and talk to a lawyer about.

    Also I think we've established that PayZip has more money then what they have frozen in the one account... between me and you is half of that already and there was a few other dss dealers who probably have a similar amount frozen. They've got about $130,000 of mine... how much does everyone else got frozen?
    ____________________

    So people please post what moneys are held. They owe me $126,000.00

    mili
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  13. #38

    Payzip Merchant

    They owe me USD 20 000, I have a small business and 20 000 is still a lot for me.

    To all merchants please inform me (us) if there is any solution or anything we can do together to get our money back.

    Tks,
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  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    9,039
    Unfortunately people will continue to have this problem when using third party merchants.

    The ONLY way to secure your business transactions in the future and mitigate risk is to use a PROPER merchant account.

    Paysystems was a lesson learnt for a lot of people, and this one should be the FINAL lesson.

    Use a proper merchant account, and if you cant do that, then you should expect to get burnt again by the next 3rd party.

    The people who run credit cards (Visa/Mastercard) do not want 3rd party processing to exist... they arent going to let this continue.

    Deal with it now rather than later and sort your business out for the longer term.
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
    UK www.unitedhosting.co.uk | US www.unitedhosting.com | Since 1998.
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Under the sea
    Posts
    4,208
    If you are doing 20,000+ in transactions then you should not be using a 3rd Party processor.
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  16. #41
    I have myself US$ 9,000 in my Payzip account, not a lot in comparison to others, but if each of us have between US$ 10,000 to 100,000, multiplicated by all the customers they have, that's a lot of money in the bank!!!

    Do we know how many customers PayZip has? If they several hundreds customers, this board should be pouring with comments!!!

    Also waiting for further news...
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  17. #42
    If PayZip does not provide refund and if we DO ask our clients to ask for charge back, what is the best way to do it?

    If there is specific procedure for them (our clients) to make this request? Should they contact their credit card or bank? Plse give us more information on how the "charge back" works.

    Thanks for your feedback and let's keep the forum busy with comments!!!
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by UH-Matt
    Unfortunately people will continue to have this problem when using third party merchants.

    The ONLY way to secure your business transactions in the future and mitigate risk is to use a PROPER merchant account.

    Paysystems was a lesson learnt for a lot of people, and this one should be the FINAL lesson.

    Use a proper merchant account, and if you cant do that, then you should expect to get burnt again by the next 3rd party.

    The people who run credit cards (Visa/Mastercard) do not want 3rd party processing to exist... they arent going to let this continue.

    Deal with it now rather than later and sort your business out for the longer term.
    The problem is that not all countries can get a merchant account easily.
    Last edited by cavalry; 02-24-2006 at 10:31 AM.
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  19. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Fiji
    Posts
    138
    First off you cannot do a chargeback for a year, you have a certain grace period that you are allowed to chargeback, and that doesnt really solve much.

    Also something that I cannot understand why do people that use 3rd party processing allow the processor to hold so much money? I use a 3rd party but I make sure to use the absolute minimum payout so they are holding as little money as possible.
    MyGoto.com
    Hosting for all minds...
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  20. #45
    HOLY COW!

    $126,000
    $20,000
    $9,000

    ALL IN PAYZIP's control???????

    How and when will I get paid?
    Suppliers are paid weekly (each Friday) with a 3 weeks’ delay. This means that funds collected from one processing week (last Thursday to this Friday) will be paid 3 Fridays later into to the suppliers’ Payzip account.
    Why would ANYONE have that kind of money in a 3pp account?

    This doesn' t make any sense to me.
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    PayZip holds 15% of sales totals in a 6 months rolling reserve. ON top of that they did not pay a whole month's worth of payouts. It adds up. I know from sorry experience that their bank allowed 9 month old transactions to be charged back and when I asked then WTF I was told they allow charge backs going back a year!!!
    So.
    This is what you do.
    You contact your customers and explain the whole situation how you never got paid for the services/products you sold using PayZip because of the 6 months rolling reserve and then you ask them to help you out by first telling their credit card company/bank that they have not received the goods/services and/or the goods/services were either defective/not as advertised and ask for their moneys to be refunded. The CC companies go to PayZip's bank asking for rectification/explanation/tracking number in general proof of delivery. PayZip in turn asks you (I think they won't bother) to prove deliver which you of course will not. It is then up to the customer's honesty and willingness to help you to resubmit payment once they get their money back. Some will do nothing, some will charge back and keep the money, some will charge back then give you your money. In any case based on personal experiences you will see maybe 15% of the money PayZip owes you. That is exactly 15% more than you get if you do nothing. I for example will send the link to this thread to all my customers when I ask them for their help so they see I am not bullshitting them. This is a no win situation so if PayZip wants to avoid the MAJOR escalation of their problems with their bank/MC they better start communicating with us. I hate to do this because they are nice people and this is not really something they planned to do but I got a sick wife who needs her chemotherapy and I got to pay the bills.

    And the correct amount as far as I add it up is:
    dssliquidators $130,000
    dssftp: $126,000
    dssgroundcontrol: $120,000
    Romet $20,000
    Maxhenry $9,000

    mili
    Last edited by mili; 02-24-2006 at 07:31 PM.
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  22. #47
    I think one of the reason that people have kept so much money is because Payzip felt very "safe: they are based in Singapore (one of the strictest and safest banking system in the world), provided an ATM cash card (so withdrawing money was convenient and working all over the world) and had excellent customer service (they were very helpfulk and quick to answer).

    Again, I agree that Payzip team has been overall very professional and it's a pity to see them in this situation. But again, they need to communicate with us and try their best to make the refund asap.

    The charge back should be the ultimate solution.
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  23. #48
    Mili, how can we identify other Payzip customers?

    They should be joining the discussion and tell us how much they have with Payzip. I am actually surprised that they don't post more on this forum.

    To all Payzip customers with their money frozen, plse post here and tell us how much you have!!!
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    83
    Well you can go and look in http://shop.payzip.com/CategoryList.asp and browse their merchants then email every one of them (that is what I did). I seriously doubt that they got a lot of merchants though. Charge back is burning all bridges and so I will wait to hear from them on Monday before starting the mess.

    mili
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  25. #50
    I have about 19000 Euro in the payzip account; about 95 % were paid via wire transfer and have nothing to do with mastercard. We used the payzip account more or less like a regular bank account, because it was very convenient and cheap to pay other invoices this way. I asked payzip billing for the coordinates of the responsible poeple at mastercard and at their bank (HSBC Singapore) to forward complaints and protests against their practices, but got a friendly answer, that they (payzip) are not allowed to disclose such info.
    I also think, that getting together as much payzip customers as possible, maybe there is one from Singapore, to get a lawyer there and to see what's really going on and what are our chances to get our money back. As far as I understand our money is not payzip's money, payzip is just a trustee, therefore mastercard should not be allowed to satisfy their needs with our money, but rather with payzip's company earnings; this is especially true for money that was not involved in any mastercard credit card operation. But this depends strongly on Singapore financial laws and I think we should try to proceed in this direction.
    Armando
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