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10-02-2012, 01:48 PM #1Web Hosting Master
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LSI Megaraid 9266-8i and TRIM and RAID
Hi,
As topic suggests we're running a few of these on our SANs but seems like no TRIM support.
Does LSI offer an option that supports TRIM? These are all SSD arrays using CacheCade as well.
Also, what RAID are people running? We're doing RAID 10 but have been considering going RAID 0 and having 2 SANs mirror each other for better throughput and real redundancy
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10-02-2012, 02:10 PM #2Randy
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No TRIM. Here's an interesting perspective:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post5027110Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
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10-02-2012, 02:26 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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Also we're using these with Samsung 830s. Do these have some sort of optimized GC built into the controllers?
LSI is coming out with these - interesting pricing ... given that a 100GB PCI SSD probably makes up most of the cost of that card ...
http://www.techpowerup.com/171656/LS...ion-Cards.html
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10-02-2012, 05:24 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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actually, you will want to wait for Samsung 840 Pro for about 2 more weeks.
840 pro gives you more than twice the IOPS on random write, yet it costs just 20% more than 830.
if you had Xeon E3 v2 or dual E5, would want to do 9271-8i PCIe 3.0 based LSI instead of 9266-8i PCIe 2.0.
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10-03-2012, 04:07 AM #5Web Hosting Master
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What is the price difference between the 9266 and the 9271 and what are the benefits?
Will look into the 840s - are there any specific benefits in terms of garbage collection - rather than just performance/
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10-03-2012, 05:43 AM #6Web Hosting Master
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regardless 830 or 840 or any SSD for that matter, you just won't get TRIM support unless you want to give up hardware RAID. it's not a matter of choice! none of the hardware RAID cards on the market today can support TRIM which is also OS dependent. for linux, you will need to install experimental 2.6.33 kernel (even the latest RHEL6.3 production kernel is 2.6.32.xxx) just to get TRIM support if you connect SSD's to on-board Intel SATA controller (C202, C204, C602, C604) without going thru hardware RAID card.
the whole purpose of TRIM is to minimize write amplification, improve performance and endurance, so can the technique of over-provisioning (OP) which is entirely possible and darn easy to do with hardware RAID card. all you have to do is to leave some percentage out of full capacity as blank/unused raw space at the time you configure the array size. i.e. set array size to 410GB to a 4x 256GB SSD RAID-10 will give you about 20% over-provisioning and this 20% can improve endurance level as well as random write IOPS by 2-3 folds!
http://cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/...354_492354.pdf
although white paper above is about Intel 320 SSD drives, but it can apply all SSD drives in general.
"$150" is the MSRP for 128GB Samsung 840 Pro. historically speaking, newegg has the tenancy to sell spanking-new-to-market products in MSRP. the settle-down street price shall be much lower than what newegg would sell or pre-book you for now.
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10-04-2012, 01:45 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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10-04-2012, 07:34 PM #8Web Hosting Guru
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Just a side note: Although CentOS6 is listed to have a 2.6.32 kernel, I believe that it has a few features backported from 2.6.33, such as TRIM support. It's really a hybrid mix of 2.6.32 and 2.6.33.
You can mount drives using ext4 with discard (TRIM) support in CentOS 6.
From: https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/...ssdtuning.html
keep in mind that MD (software raid) does not support discards. In contrast, the logical volume manager (LVM) and the device-mapper (DM) targets that LVM uses do support discards. The only DM targets that do not support discards are dm-snapshot, dm-crypt, and dm-raid45. Discard support for the dm-mirror was added in Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.1.
Red Hat also warns that software RAID levels 1, 4, 5, and 6 are not recommended for use on SSDs. During the initialization stage of these RAID levels, some RAID management utilities (such as mdadm) write to all of the blocks on the storage device to ensure that checksums operate properly. This will cause the performance of the SSD to degrade quickly.
At present, ext4 is the only fully-supported file system that supports discard. To enable discard commands on a device, use the mount option discard. For example, to mount /dev/sda2 to /mnt with discard enabled, run:
# mount -t ext4 -o discard /dev/sda2 /mnt
By default, ext4 does not issue the discard command. This is mostly to avoid problems on devices which may not properly implement the discard command. The Linux swap code will issue discard commands to discard-enabled devices, and there is no option to control this behavior.
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10-04-2012, 07:39 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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During the initialization stage of these RAID levels, some RAID management utilities (such as mdadm) write to all of the blocks on the storage device to ensure that checksums operate properly. This will cause the performance of the SSD to degrade quickly.
didn't realise that about mdadm
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10-03-2012, 05:58 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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PCIe 3.0 can do 8 GT (gigatransfer) per second which effectively delivers 60% higher bandwidth than PCIe 2.0 (5 GT/s). it may matter a lot when you have SSD-only arrays.
9271-8i is essentially the same price with 9265/9266-8i. well, perhaps $10-$15 more unless someone is dumping the old inventory of 9265/9266 cards...
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10-03-2012, 04:13 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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Newegg sells Samsung 830 128GB for $108 shipping. Samsung 840s will be $150 for 128GB so its more like 50% more.
That said, I'm more interested in things other than raw speed. More about durability and the controllers
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10-03-2012, 02:25 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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When did the 9271 come out? Our server vendor was asking us to buy the 9266 even a month ago ...
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10-03-2012, 04:43 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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haven't checked other outfits, but at least Provantage has 9271-8i in stock for $645:
http://www.provantage.com/lsi-logic-...0~7LSIG0P4.htm
and they still sell 9266-8i for $634.
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10-03-2012, 04:51 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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wow nice and cheap..
Shame provantage won't do business with me, they declined my American Express card and won't allow bank transfer from Australia.: CentminMod.com Nginx Installer Nginx 1.25, PHP-FPM, MariaDB 10 CentOS (AlmaLinux/Rocky testing)
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10-03-2012, 11:24 PM #15Backup Guru
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10-04-2012, 12:02 AM #16Web Hosting Master
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It's strange, my order went through at provantage.com web site after i read for Australians they take either American Express or bank wire transfer payments. Then get 2 emails, first one says they can't accept my American Express payment and give me bank wire transfer info. Then 2nd email arrives a few minutes later and says they can't accept bank wire transfer and for me to send a money order as the only acceptable payment method
Guess my ip or something set off fraud alerts or something.
Coincidentally, the order was for LSI 9260-8i BBU and fastpath key. So ended up cancelling order and buying elsewhere.
My 9260-8i BBU seems to have died now, probably not worth investing in another when new LSI cards have cache vault.
I have a dual E5-2650 here with PCI-E 3.0 so that 9271-8i looks like just what I need to match up with my 256GB Samsung 830 and Plextor M5S SSDs (seem to perform better than Samsung 830 on C602 chipset): CentminMod.com Nginx Installer Nginx 1.25, PHP-FPM, MariaDB 10 CentOS (AlmaLinux/Rocky testing)
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10-03-2012, 03:01 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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If your running >4 drives I don't see any reason to not run raid6? More space efficient and unless you really need 100% of the iops of the SSD's the write whole (halving the iops) should not be a huge deal on SSD's. Actually even with only 4 drives I would seriously consider raid6 with SSD's.
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10-03-2012, 04:58 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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if you run all SSD arrays, you don't really need CacheCade which is designed to boost performance from much slower spin drives by using single (or a pool of) ultra fast SSD as caching devices on BIOS level. what you need for pure SSD array is FastPath:
http://www.lsi.com/products/storages...hSoftware.aspx
LSI claims that FastPath can boost LSI 2208 ROC based RAID card running all SSD arrays to 465000 IOPS!
anyway, the 9271-8iCC includes both CacheCade and FastPath in one packaging so that you don't have to buy the keys for CacheCade/FastPath separately.
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10-04-2012, 01:23 AM #19Web Hosting Master
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We have the LSI-9266-8i so not much we can do now - we have a number of these in our SANs ... guess its 9271 for the next build
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10-04-2012, 02:33 AM #20Backup Guru
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10-04-2012, 01:41 AM #21Web Hosting Master
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Chong, is the megaraid recovery software useful or other storage software achieve the same goal?
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10-04-2012, 12:47 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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We have 24 x Samsung 830's in our RAID array on RAID 10 that's why - and wondering if PCI-E 3.0 would have made a difference. Adding FastPath next week
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10-04-2012, 12:51 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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10-05-2012, 03:48 AM #24Web Hosting Master
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Performance is not bad - we're seeing about 500mbps throughput per drive but since its on RAID 10 - we're only seeing total throughput of ~2.4GB/S given the overhead. We've heard FastPath will take that up to ~3.0GB/S that's why I was wondering if the PCI-E 3.0 will add a bit more.
We have 4 of these SANs connected together so the overall performance is fantastic for our nodes and we much prefer this over a branded off-the-shelf solution. Again this is not for everyone.
We will be adding 2 SATA SANs with 600GB 15K RPM SATA drives as backup volumes and will be using cachecade on those for redunancy. (Our SSD sans are 6TB per unit right now 250GB * 24 drives each for 24TB total) so that'll work out nicely. with overprovisioning, we have plenty of space left and the redundancy on this setup is great. All of this cost about 30K
We're using OSNexus as our software storage program FYI and would recommend them to anyone.
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10-05-2012, 04:38 AM #25Backup Guru
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