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  1. #1
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    How can you tell if a company is a reseller or not?

    I have read many threads on here about resellers. How can you tell if a company is a reseller or not?

  2. #2
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    In many cases you cannot tell. That is the good thing about custom branding and custom nameservers. About the only way would be to ask a host directly and then you may not get an honest answer.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by potus
    I have read many threads on here about resellers. How can you tell if a company is a reseller or not?
    Just ask them. Really, it should not matter to the end user as long as they provide what is promised...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthdevil
    Just ask them. Really, it should not matter to the end user as long as they provide what is promised...
    I agree. If you like the provided service, then it really doesn't matter if the host is on a reseller or not.

    If you are a prospective customer, simply ask them. Not much else you can do really.

  5. #5
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    Unless the company owns their own datacenter/infrastructure, they are reselling on some level. Even then, you can argue that they are simply reselling bandwidth.

    What difference does it make anyway?

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Unless the company owns their own datacenter/infrastructure, they are reselling on some level. Even then, you can argue that they are simply reselling bandwidth.

    What difference does it make anyway?

    --Tina
    In the ideal world, it shouldn't make any. Resellers can offer some extremely worthwhile values over what their provider might be able to offer; BeachComber.Net has made a tremendous reputation with their offerings as a reseller of numerous dedicated servers. There are some shared hosts as well that have a tremendous reputation in their local community for their quality of services, yet they're a reseller. Being a reseller isn't a bad thing, and I find it somewhat saddening when some hosts completely pass up a potential marketing gimmick as a reseller.

    However in the realistic world, there are certain people who wish to only go directly to the source for their services, which is sad because they're completely missing out a potential great service. You can not however blame them, with it being as easy as it is to pick up a $8.99 reseller package, and claim yourself as a host, it's put a bit of a dirty image of some resellers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Unless the company owns their own datacenter/infrastructure, they are reselling on some level. Even then, you can argue that they are simply reselling bandwidth.

    What difference does it make anyway?

    --Tina
    Stole the words right out of my mouth.

    Everyone is reselling something:
    -Servers that are rented, or leased
    -Operating system that was made by someone else
    -Bandwidth that's being provided bysomeone else
    -Access to webhosting software, some other company made
    -Access to a billing software made by another company
    -Even your support technicians are selling their skills really

    So at the end of the day, who is NOT a reseller?
    [[ Reyox Communications / USA based cloud servers & support / 9 years of hosting websites ]]
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    Stole the words right out of my mouth.

    Everyone is reselling something:
    -Servers that are rented, or leased
    -Operating system that was made by someone else
    -Bandwidth that's being provided bysomeone else
    -Access to webhosting software, some other company made
    -Access to a billing software made by another company
    -Even your support technicians are selling their skills really

    So at the end of the day, who is NOT a reseller?
    Real Tier 1 hosting companies.
    You’re just trying to rationalize reselling and equate it to a real hosting company- It’s nothing of the kind. As this board has in the neighborhood of 15 or 20 real hosts, it doesn’t come as a surprise. Given the choice, customers want real services from established companies not resellers, not marked up over-sold crappy hosting which is the norm; that’s why they all hide their true nature- customers don’t find out until they fold, which is frequently.

    Resellers are just salesmen they lack the capital, experience and capabilities to run a real company- Reselling as a VAR in design for example is fine and was originally the core target, reselling and pretending to be a pureplay host is a joke. Most resellers never see more than 50 customers, those that do and migrate to a dedicated box never get past 200 or a thousand. It takes lots of experience, capital and business acumen to run a real hosting business - buying from a middleman that has neither the control nor the capability to influence core product, service or support is absurd and the op has every right to seek out a tier 1 provider which by the way control whether resold hosting stays or goes.

    Go with a real hosting company with their own DC’s, DP/BC, In-house customer support and service assets and at least a 5 year track record.

  9. #9
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    Everyone starts someplace

    Most people were reseller once, we we're way back when!

  10. #10
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    What do you think Wal-Mart does? Need I say more? Whether you're a reseller or not just is not a critical issue these days. Support is far more important.

    However, to answer your question of finding out if they're a reseller: Google their phone numbers, support brands, etc....; try a WHOIS to see what nameservers they're using, etc....there are lots of ways to check.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
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    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalWebDan
    However, to answer your question of finding out if they're a reseller: Google their phone numbers, support brands, etc....; try a WHOIS to see what nameservers they're using, etc....there are lots of ways to check.
    Wanna expand on what you mean? I don't see how any of this is relevant.

    Looking up a phone number in google, will do exactly that. It won't say "X" company is a reseller. Whois will show you their whois info. Heck we provide our clients with 2 IP's so they can use their own name servers.

    I think your best bet is to feel around. Does the host's website look professional or is it a template site? Does the whois information show accurate info or does it shows hotmail addresses or did they use an anonymous proxy to signup.

  12. #12
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    Some companies that resell use third-party support, also provided by the company they resell from. A commonality in the phone numbers would bear this out.

    Not all companies that offer reseller plans offer dedicated IPs.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
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    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowabunga
    Go with a real hosting company with their own DC’s, DP/BC, In-house customer support and service assets and at least a 5 year track record.
    Most companies that own their own DCs won't sell budget hosting accounts. Its not worth their time or effort.

    By your standards, we're not a real hosting company. Yet, we have almost 10 years under our belt, have a Tax ID, are in a 25% tax bracket, at one time hosted around 5000-ish individual customers (equating to roughly 50,000 accounts), in-house support and 100s of servers in 6 different datacenters.

    Your logic is totally flawed.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
    www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalWebDan
    Some companies that resell use third-party support, also provided by the company they resell from. A commonality in the phone numbers would bear this out.
    I've seen this happen twice in all my years and it was because someone pointed it out. In the end I called the # and asked what company they were but they wouldn't give me a name till I gave them an account number or something

    (which means they were outsourced support).


    But really, that still doesn't determine whether or not a host is a reseller.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Most companies that own their own DCs won't sell budget hosting accounts. Its not worth their time or effort.

    By your standards, we're not a real hosting company. Yet, we have almost 10 years under our belt, have a Tax ID, are in a 25% tax bracket, at one time hosted around 5000-ish individual customers (equating to roughly 50,000 accounts), in-house support and 100s of servers in 6 different datacenters.

    Your logic is totally flawed.

    --Tina
    i agree. that person not only woke up on the wrong side of the bed but live in a world where things are just handed to you.

    90% of all hosts are reselling or started out reselling.

    I don't know many people that say "today im gonna start webhosting" and the first thing they do is a build a datacenter.

    Oh come on now....
    - Steve D
    SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
    Shared, Reseller, VPS.
    Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!

  16. #16
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Most companies that own their own DCs won't sell budget hosting accounts. Its not worth their time or effort.
    Wrong. The major players that define the shared market all own mutiple data centers.

    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    By your standards, we're not a real hosting company. Yet, we have almost 10 years under our belt, have a Tax ID, are in a 25% tax bracket, at one time hosted around 5000-ish individual customers (equating to roughly 50,000 accounts), in-house support and 100s of servers in 6 different datacenters.
    Not at all- where are you a reseller? You're a small real hosting company without your own data center assets, colo'd over your own service architecture. That cerainly qualifies as real, you have the ability to control service levels, network operations and operating models. Resellers do not. [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Your logic is totally flawed..
    No, your understanding is limited.
    --Tina[/QUOTE]

  17. #17
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    Guys, I don't see a need to argue about this. Remember this is the OP's thread, so let's stick to his/her original question.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
    Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
    Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowabunga
    Wrong. The major players that define the shared market all own mutiple data centers.

    Not at all- where are you a reseller? You're a small real hosting company without your own data center assets, colo'd over your own service architecture. That cerainly qualifies as real, you have the ability to control service levels, network operations and operating models. Resellers do not.
    No, your understanding is limited.
    --Tina[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


    yes but i think they point some other people were making is that somewhere down the line its all resold.

    If you have a server colo'd somewhere you don't have any much more control over it then if you lease a server from the same place. You can still do whatever you want with it except unplug it and take it home (like there is any need for that)

    if you have your own (in house) staff as you stated and your not using that datacenters techs then whats the difference? Nothing and yet it is technically reselling.

    However the OP may or may not have meant reseller as in a host reselling space on a shared server.

    Maybe that would have changed everything.
    - Steve D
    SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
    Shared, Reseller, VPS.
    Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowabunga
    Not at all- where are you a reseller? You're a small real hosting company without your own data center assets, colo'd over your own service architecture. That cerainly qualifies as real, you have the ability to control service levels, network operations and operating models. Resellers do not.
    Nope. Used to own a small datacenter, before that we used to colo (years ago)...went back to the less complicated basics of leasing our servers from various datacenters and making them handle that end of the business. We own none of our own equipment and resell dedicated servers as managed servers and also offer reseller hosting.

    We do quite well and I expect to retire by the time I'm 45 (in my late 30s now). By your definition, that makes us resellers and not a real hosting company.

    PS: I honestly don't want to argue this with you. Just trying to show you the other side of the coin.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
    www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)

  20. #20
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    LOL - i will totally agree with the last two posts. Tina is very right. I would consider that company to be a "Fully Fledged Host", even if they don't own a datacentre! Infact they are probably the smart ones not, because you think about the time and money having to employ extra staff, maintance on the building, power bills, heating/cooling, land taxes, making sure the building is safe for working in, updating all the servers every year or so, making sure you have trained your staff, so when you look at all the other things the go on, you think - well they might just be the clever ones!

    But to those who own a datacentre - you guys make our businesses a reality!

    "Also don't wake up on the wrong side of the bed" i always put my alarm on the side i DON"T want to get up on.
    All Talk Communications Limited
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wholesale telecommunications - NZ

  21. #21
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    If i started on a reseller i would not be afraid to say on livesupport

    Yes we have decided to start on a reseller as simply on a dedicated server we just dont need the resources, As the company grows so will we and we will eventually move to a dedicated server, But at the moment a reseller is fine for us as our host is reliable and has excellent uptime and a very quick server

    Basically just be ohnest with your customers

  22. #22
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    Indeed, a smart business finds ways to mitigate their risks by transferring responsibilities to as many other parties as possible. Preferably, this transfer is dispersed over multiple third parties. Server leasing, outsourced support, etc are all examples of this.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
    Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
    Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowabunga
    Real Tier 1 hosting companies.
    You’re just trying to rationalize reselling and equate it to a real hosting company- It’s nothing of the kind. As this board has in the neighborhood of 15 or 20 real hosts, it doesn’t come as a surprise. Given the choice, customers want real services from established companies not resellers, not marked up over-sold crappy hosting which is the norm; that’s why they all hide their true nature- customers don’t find out until they fold, which is frequently.

    Resellers are just salesmen they lack the capital, experience and capabilities to run a real company- Reselling as a VAR in design for example is fine and was originally the core target, reselling and pretending to be a pureplay host is a joke. Most resellers never see more than 50 customers, those that do and migrate to a dedicated box never get past 200 or a thousand. It takes lots of experience, capital and business acumen to run a real hosting business - buying from a middleman that has neither the control nor the capability to influence core product, service or support is absurd and the op has every right to seek out a tier 1 provider which by the way control whether resold hosting stays or goes.

    Go with a real hosting company with their own DC’s, DP/BC, In-house customer support and service assets and at least a 5 year track record.
    Your logic is flawed. There are several 'resellers' out there who are doing an excellent job. A 'real' hosting company supposedly with their own datacenter, servers, software, operating systems & control panels would be charging anywhere from $100 - infinity if everything was indeed proprietary. Can you tell us where the customers are who are willing to pay that much for shared hosting?

    Being in this industry for the last six years and before forming my own hosting companies, I've used most of the so called "tier-1" brands out there. Let me assure, very few are worth what's actually paid for their services.

    If I was a hosting consumer (which I am, but on a totally different level)- I'd most likely be looking at companies like my own to meet my needs, and I certainly wouldn't pay 5x more just to be hosted by a tier-1 brand for sake of psychological satisfaction.

    I'm sure most buyers and experienced webhosters who post here will agree with what I've said.
    [[ Reyox Communications / USA based cloud servers & support / 9 years of hosting websites ]]
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    If I was a hosting consumer (which I am, but on a totally different level)- I'd most likely be looking at companies like my own to meet my needs, and I certainly wouldn't pay 5x more just to be hosted by a tier-1 brand for sake of psychological satisfaction.

    I'm sure most buyers and experienced webhosters who post here will agree with what I've said.
    here here m8

    well said, well said indeed.
    - Steve D
    SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
    Shared, Reseller, VPS.
    Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    Your logic is flawed. There are several 'resellers' out there who are doing an excellent job. A 'real' hosting company supposedly with their own datacenter, servers, software, operating systems & control panels would be charging anywhere from $100 - infinity if everything was indeed proprietary. Can you tell us where the customers are who are willing to pay that much for shared hosting?
    No you just have limited understanding of the operational advantages, branding and economies of scale which well capitalized, established hosting companies can bring to bear. Give Andreas at 1+1, Jim at Affinity or Tom at Ipowerweb a call and ask them how they can afford to position shared hosting at a sub $10.00 price point and how many customers respond to the resulting marketing power of their brands. I can personally look out upon hundreds of thousands of customers that buy based upon brand, scale of service architecture and owned assets- much of the shared at again sub-$10.00 and annuity based pricing which hasn't changed in 8 years. I phased out a shared reseller program with over 30k customers because at the end of the day it doesn't build value internally or in the market at large. There are exceptions of course. Hostopia being the leader, though they have a dedcated business model much outside of mainstream resold shared hosting.

    Resold shared hosting along with the facilitation of unqualified business on this board have largely contributed the decline of the industry. Are there a few good resellers? Sure but they are in the fractional minority and are only as good as their upstream provider, which determines the product and service, not the sales rep/reseller. As margins continue to decline for providers, so does the level of upstream wholesale product vaiability. I've watched the decline of consumer confidence and plain old fraud become the watchword of the day in this business for the last several years; the resultant reduced entry barriers and lack of marketing expertise of many large companies which led the adoption of reselling as a service offering are coming home to roost. Many larger companies have hit the wall as customer acquisition costs coupled with razor thin margins beyond attainable RPU and organic growth due to market fragmentation are making wholesale products a liability.

    The fragmented, garbage market which wholesale shared hosting has created is forcing companies that contributed to it onto the auction block at heretofore unseen numbers. Those that remain and consolidate will at some point retrench outside of shared wholesale product offerings.



    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    Being in this industry for the last six years and before forming my own hosting companies, I've used most of the so called "tier-1" brands out there. Let me assure, very few are worth what's actually paid for their services.
    That's your opinion, albeit a minority position, as once again established non resellers acquire more customers in one day than the sum total of all the "hosts" that congregate here on web hobby talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    If I was a hosting consumer (which I am, but on a totally different level)- I'd most likely be looking at companies like my own to meet my needs, and I certainly wouldn't pay 5x more just to be hosted by a tier-1 brand for sake of psychological satisfaction.
    Once again in the face of the greater market, a minority opinion. I certainly agree that qualified small business is the backbone of our economy, and advocate its support and patronage, but it is largely founded upon experienced operators, usually undercapitalized, yet none the less experienced and able to provide a real product or service or value . You don't see someone opening a garage that doesn't know how to work on a car and succeeding. While certainly amusing and sad, the rants and travails of customers burned by resellers disappearing overnight, being sold to another reseller or just thrown under the bus because the only avenue of marketing for the reseller is egregious pricing are the norm. Customers are the backbone of this industry as they are in any other and the ridiculous number of unqualified resellers pretending to be real hosts has reduced consumer confidence to unheard of levels. Yes there are resellers which provide value added services and are worthwhile additions to the industry, unfortunately they are few and far between.
    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
    I'm sure most buyers and experienced webhosters who post here will agree with what I've said.
    What do the posts here have to do with the entities which define and drive the hosting industry? Over tha last six or seven years I can only think of less than 10 posters that I'd consider a web host. WHT is for the most part akin to street vendors in New York opining on the retail sector. In the greater scheme of the industry rrelevant. Amusing, but irrelevant.

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