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12-24-2006, 10:02 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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How can you tell if a company is a reseller or not?
I have read many threads on here about resellers. How can you tell if a company is a reseller or not?
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12-24-2006, 10:51 PM #2Junior Guru
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In many cases you cannot tell. That is the good thing about custom branding and custom nameservers. About the only way would be to ask a host directly and then you may not get an honest answer.
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12-24-2006, 11:02 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by potus
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12-24-2006, 11:32 PM #4Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by stealthdevil
If you are a prospective customer, simply ask them. Not much else you can do really.
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12-25-2006, 09:45 AM #5Invented the Internet
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Unless the company owns their own datacenter/infrastructure, they are reselling on some level. Even then, you can argue that they are simply reselling bandwidth.
What difference does it make anyway?
--Tina||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)
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12-25-2006, 09:55 AM #6Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by AH-Tina
However in the realistic world, there are certain people who wish to only go directly to the source for their services, which is sad because they're completely missing out a potential great service. You can not however blame them, with it being as easy as it is to pick up a $8.99 reseller package, and claim yourself as a host, it's put a bit of a dirty image of some resellers.
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12-25-2006, 10:01 AM #7Webhosting Professional
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Originally Posted by AH-Tina
Everyone is reselling something:
-Servers that are rented, or leased
-Operating system that was made by someone else
-Bandwidth that's being provided bysomeone else
-Access to webhosting software, some other company made
-Access to a billing software made by another company
-Even your support technicians are selling their skills really
So at the end of the day, who is NOT a reseller?[[ Reyox Communications / USA based cloud servers & support / 9 years of hosting websites ]]
[[ Affordable ASP.NET4, ColdFusion, PHP & MS-SQL, MySQL, cPanel/WHM & Windows Reseller Hosting + Virtual Private Servers ]]
(www.reyox.com) - Mention WHT and get a discount on your first month!
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12-26-2006, 09:00 PM #8Web Hosting Guru
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Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
You’re just trying to rationalize reselling and equate it to a real hosting company- It’s nothing of the kind. As this board has in the neighborhood of 15 or 20 real hosts, it doesn’t come as a surprise. Given the choice, customers want real services from established companies not resellers, not marked up over-sold crappy hosting which is the norm; that’s why they all hide their true nature- customers don’t find out until they fold, which is frequently.
Resellers are just salesmen they lack the capital, experience and capabilities to run a real company- Reselling as a VAR in design for example is fine and was originally the core target, reselling and pretending to be a pureplay host is a joke. Most resellers never see more than 50 customers, those that do and migrate to a dedicated box never get past 200 or a thousand. It takes lots of experience, capital and business acumen to run a real hosting business - buying from a middleman that has neither the control nor the capability to influence core product, service or support is absurd and the op has every right to seek out a tier 1 provider which by the way control whether resold hosting stays or goes.
Go with a real hosting company with their own DC’s, DP/BC, In-house customer support and service assets and at least a 5 year track record.
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12-26-2006, 09:13 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Everyone starts someplace
Most people were reseller once, we we're way back when!
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12-26-2006, 09:22 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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What do you think Wal-Mart does? Need I say more? Whether you're a reseller or not just is not a critical issue these days. Support is far more important.
However, to answer your question of finding out if they're a reseller: Google their phone numbers, support brands, etc....; try a WHOIS to see what nameservers they're using, etc....there are lots of ways to check.Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com
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12-26-2006, 09:28 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by GlobalWebDan
Looking up a phone number in google, will do exactly that. It won't say "X" company is a reseller. Whois will show you their whois info. Heck we provide our clients with 2 IP's so they can use their own name servers.
I think your best bet is to feel around. Does the host's website look professional or is it a template site? Does the whois information show accurate info or does it shows hotmail addresses or did they use an anonymous proxy to signup.
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12-26-2006, 09:30 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Some companies that resell use third-party support, also provided by the company they resell from. A commonality in the phone numbers would bear this out.
Not all companies that offer reseller plans offer dedicated IPs.Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com
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12-26-2006, 09:39 PM #13Invented the Internet
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Originally Posted by cowabunga
By your standards, we're not a real hosting company. Yet, we have almost 10 years under our belt, have a Tax ID, are in a 25% tax bracket, at one time hosted around 5000-ish individual customers (equating to roughly 50,000 accounts), in-house support and 100s of servers in 6 different datacenters.
Your logic is totally flawed.
--Tina||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)
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12-26-2006, 09:39 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by GlobalWebDan
(which means they were outsourced support).
But really, that still doesn't determine whether or not a host is a reseller.
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12-26-2006, 09:55 PM #15Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by AH-Tina
90% of all hosts are reselling or started out reselling.
I don't know many people that say "today im gonna start webhosting" and the first thing they do is a build a datacenter.
Oh come on now....- Steve D
SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
Shared, Reseller, VPS.
Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!
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12-26-2006, 09:58 PM #16Web Hosting Guru
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Originally Posted by AH-Tina
Originally Posted by AH-Tina
Originally Posted by AH-Tina
--Tina[/QUOTE]
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12-26-2006, 09:59 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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Guys, I don't see a need to argue about this. Remember this is the OP's thread, so let's stick to his/her original question.
Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com
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12-26-2006, 10:15 PM #18Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by cowabunga
--Tina[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
yes but i think they point some other people were making is that somewhere down the line its all resold.
If you have a server colo'd somewhere you don't have any much more control over it then if you lease a server from the same place. You can still do whatever you want with it except unplug it and take it home (like there is any need for that)
if you have your own (in house) staff as you stated and your not using that datacenters techs then whats the difference? Nothing and yet it is technically reselling.
However the OP may or may not have meant reseller as in a host reselling space on a shared server.
Maybe that would have changed everything.- Steve D
SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
Shared, Reseller, VPS.
Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!
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12-26-2006, 11:10 PM #19Invented the Internet
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Originally Posted by cowabunga
We do quite well and I expect to retire by the time I'm 45 (in my late 30s now). By your definition, that makes us resellers and not a real hosting company.
PS: I honestly don't want to argue this with you. Just trying to show you the other side of the coin.
--Tina||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)
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12-27-2006, 05:04 AM #20Junior Guru Wannabe
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LOL - i will totally agree with the last two posts. Tina is very right. I would consider that company to be a "Fully Fledged Host", even if they don't own a datacentre! Infact they are probably the smart ones not, because you think about the time and money having to employ extra staff, maintance on the building, power bills, heating/cooling, land taxes, making sure the building is safe for working in, updating all the servers every year or so, making sure you have trained your staff, so when you look at all the other things the go on, you think - well they might just be the clever ones!
But to those who own a datacentre - you guys make our businesses a reality!
"Also don't wake up on the wrong side of the bed" i always put my alarm on the side i DON"T want to get up on.All Talk Communications Limited
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Wholesale telecommunications - NZ
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12-27-2006, 05:43 AM #21Web Hosting Master
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If i started on a reseller i would not be afraid to say on livesupport
Yes we have decided to start on a reseller as simply on a dedicated server we just dont need the resources, As the company grows so will we and we will eventually move to a dedicated server, But at the moment a reseller is fine for us as our host is reliable and has excellent uptime and a very quick server
Basically just be ohnest with your customers
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12-27-2006, 09:19 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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Indeed, a smart business finds ways to mitigate their risks by transferring responsibilities to as many other parties as possible. Preferably, this transfer is dispersed over multiple third parties. Server leasing, outsourced support, etc are all examples of this.
Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com
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12-27-2006, 12:37 PM #23Webhosting Professional
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Originally Posted by cowabunga
Being in this industry for the last six years and before forming my own hosting companies, I've used most of the so called "tier-1" brands out there. Let me assure, very few are worth what's actually paid for their services.
If I was a hosting consumer (which I am, but on a totally different level)- I'd most likely be looking at companies like my own to meet my needs, and I certainly wouldn't pay 5x more just to be hosted by a tier-1 brand for sake of psychological satisfaction.
I'm sure most buyers and experienced webhosters who post here will agree with what I've said.[[ Reyox Communications / USA based cloud servers & support / 9 years of hosting websites ]]
[[ Affordable ASP.NET4, ColdFusion, PHP & MS-SQL, MySQL, cPanel/WHM & Windows Reseller Hosting + Virtual Private Servers ]]
(www.reyox.com) - Mention WHT and get a discount on your first month!
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12-27-2006, 01:30 PM #24Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
well said, well said indeed.- Steve D
SERVBoston: Hosting since 2003
Shared, Reseller, VPS.
Top Notch Support from a veteran hosting company!
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12-27-2006, 04:37 PM #25Web Hosting Guru
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Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
Resold shared hosting along with the facilitation of unqualified business on this board have largely contributed the decline of the industry. Are there a few good resellers? Sure but they are in the fractional minority and are only as good as their upstream provider, which determines the product and service, not the sales rep/reseller. As margins continue to decline for providers, so does the level of upstream wholesale product vaiability. I've watched the decline of consumer confidence and plain old fraud become the watchword of the day in this business for the last several years; the resultant reduced entry barriers and lack of marketing expertise of many large companies which led the adoption of reselling as a service offering are coming home to roost. Many larger companies have hit the wall as customer acquisition costs coupled with razor thin margins beyond attainable RPU and organic growth due to market fragmentation are making wholesale products a liability.
The fragmented, garbage market which wholesale shared hosting has created is forcing companies that contributed to it onto the auction block at heretofore unseen numbers. Those that remain and consolidate will at some point retrench outside of shared wholesale product offerings.
Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting
Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting