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04-11-2011, 04:18 AM #101Web Hosting Master
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In regards to our business with GNAX, I cannot comment too much here because we already have a rift with GNAX in which is sort of on a mend right now, I am still on a sideline fence and contemplating on what we want to do.
Right now I will not comment too much on what has happened between GNAX and our Business but I can only say that I am satisfied with the outcome of certain things but not everything.
We are in development of our own private cloud network that will not require 3rd party intervention, though in regards to this as well we do use TSS (Total Server Solutions) as a party to our server management the same as this company (did) we find them quite amazing to work with and are always on the ball to get things done in the event that something bad happens.
I still have a few issues with GNAX, I am working with Jeff on getting most of the past issues out of the way, though to be quite honest I am not satisfied in the way we have been treated because for a company to call us explicity 'inexperienced' is really not what I call the best in customer and provider interaction.
I have kept my nose clean on this one because I personally do not want more rifts between GNAX and our company - only reason being that we do want to keep our customers on a actively running system.0
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04-11-2011, 05:10 AM #102Junior Guru Wannabe
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Well for what it's worth:
I contacted GNAX and opened a trouble ticket to get my equipment. By the end of the day (Sunday night), my server was back online with the same IP as always. Shows an uptime of 2 days. That means it was actually turned off at some point recently.
Here is hoping I'll be able to pick it up without issue.
However, it is online now, and they have opened communication0
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04-11-2011, 05:19 AM #103Web Hosting Master
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04-11-2011, 06:05 AM #104Always Ask...Don't Pretend!
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Wow, very long thread but its nice to read.
I think this issue is simple, IF ITS TRUE that OR has outstanding balance / debt with GNAX. Then by all means GNAX has the right to get what is due to them. As the primary network provider it is correct that they will be the first one to absorb the issue.
However, if OR has no outstanding balance / debt then this action is 100% inappropriate.█ Ask for Server IP & Nameservers IP to check if your reseller provider truly provides 100% white-label.
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04-11-2011, 07:23 AM #105Rockin' the beer gut
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04-11-2011, 08:06 AM #106Always there
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Maybe time for you to read the whole thread, but here is OR side of the story:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...1&postcount=96█ Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017 Support response time <15 minutes 24/7
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04-11-2011, 08:12 AM #107Web Hosting Evangelist
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I still don't know why OpenReaction's owner is so cool about this. If they were using my equipment without my knowledge I would be on the their door step with the police.
Also, how did they add the GNAX logo without your permission? That has to be against some kind of privacy law. Sue em.0
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04-11-2011, 08:18 AM #108Always Ask...Don't Pretend!
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I think I'm unclear when I said that I already read the thread even the one that you quote. But what confuses me is IF ITS TRUE that there's no debt involve then how come the owner didn't step in and protect the interest of his client? After all he has all the rights. Why he left the customers wondering and at the end of his lengthy story he said..."When I can gain access to my hardware again I will be sending each and everyone one of you your hard drives via FedEX at my expense."
I don't get that scenario...do you?█ Ask for Server IP & Nameservers IP to check if your reseller provider truly provides 100% white-label.
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04-11-2011, 08:37 AM #109Always there
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It was also stated, that the owner wanted to sell / quit the business because of personal health reasons. I can therefore imagine that he has serious other worries as well, with that in mind, i actually do get the scenario.
offtopic but also ontopic:
This is (part of) the risk of doing business with a one man company, a risk that his clients were willing to take, since it also brings certain benefits (personal support being one of them).█ Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017 Support response time <15 minutes 24/7
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04-11-2011, 11:54 AM #110Web Hosting Master
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Yujin, I agree with you on this. What's odd to me is that the letter to the clients said that all servers were upgraded to a 100mbps port so they could transfer data out. IF OR was going to cause massive billing overages because of this before his agreement with GNAX was up, what would you do in GNAX's shoes when you know the client is going to leave and leave you with a large sum of money that will become unpaid?
I'm not on one side or the other, but I find it odd as well how OR vanishes through this whole thing and then comes back as though he was the victim yet acting cool and reserved. GNAX didn't destroy OR in the least. The owner shouldn't have tried to sign a midnight deal in hopes the clients would be dealt with. Instead he should have extended his contract with GNAX temporarily to allow his clients to have the smooth transition they deserve.
GNAX has zero obligation to OR's clients and had zero ways to contact the clients. Maybe it's possible that GNAX setup the landing pages for the clients to contact GNAX and get their servers online.0
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04-11-2011, 12:07 PM #111Web Hosting Master
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I agree with Yujin and speck. After all it is OR that is going out of business and putting its customers in this situation (10-days notice? <24h notice?) yet GNAX has been blamed here for not supporting OR unprofessional actions.
You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough0
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04-11-2011, 12:27 PM #112Problem Solver
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04-11-2011, 12:27 PM #113Newbie
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Matt, thank you very much for posting here and explaining the situation. However there is one thing I want to clear up -- I received an email from you 31 hours before the scheduled shutdown, and the email did say "2nd notice"; however, there was never any prior communication. I have every email we have ever exchanged and there simply isn't a 1st notice. From the looks of this thread I don't think I am alone.
Also, thank you Matt for years of excellent service.0
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04-11-2011, 01:13 PM #114New Member
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I really don't want to "pile on" here.
Hopefully some can learn from this thread about business ethics.
Over 30 years of very successful business I have seen this scenario many times over under many different circumstances.
Try to be bigger and help in a bad situation where you can, it pays off in the long term.
A few dollars here and there invested on good will towards customers is the best advertisement one can have.
Good Luck Folks0
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04-11-2011, 01:13 PM #115Engineer
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I would normally always side with the hosts in these situations, per my other reply they are in a lose-lose situation. It's not the host going out of business that upsets me, these things happen.
It's what was done in reaction to learning TSS was taking over the business. The actions that followed are not actions of a professional business-man and are completely uncalled for, irrational, legally questionable and totally unethical.
The OR owner says the billing date was changed (I really don't believe this as I don't think jeff is that stupid/malicious), the servers were disconnected within 26 minutes of learning that TSS would be acquiring the customers, the ip's were hi-jacked to point openreaction.com to a gnax landing page (This is NOT acceptable in any fashion to hijack a customers business page).
Someone is lying in regards to the true status of the account although I personally couldn't care less. This doesn't bother me at all, it's the actions that followed that bother me. I believe this was handled so aggressively solely because of the fact it was TSS and no matter what is said there is no justification for what happened to the openreaction.com domain - this is unacceptable at every level.Server Management - AdminGeekZ.com
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04-11-2011, 01:22 PM #116Web Hosting Master
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The proper way this should have happened is that when OR decided to end the business they should have worked something out with GNAX, since GNAX is obviously interested in taking over those customers.
This means there would be no downtime to the customers on those servers, their servers would continue to work as normal, in the same datacenter.
Instead OR and TSS made a deal to transfer the customers and stiff GNAX with the unpaid bill, not to mention the inconvenience to the customers of having to transfer their data (or allow someone access to their server to do it for them), change IP's etc...0
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04-11-2011, 01:49 PM #117Junior Guru
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Always two sides to every story and the truth will lay somewhere in the middle. I'm sure both parties made mistakes, but it's poor form to try and blame a DC for a business plan failing.
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04-11-2011, 01:50 PM #118Always Ask...Don't Pretend!
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I don't want to sound cold or rude but whether sickness or sudden death the FIRST who has the right to assist the customers is the primary provider.
We have a word here in the Philippines which is called "Delicadeza"...meaning...
"When dealing with people, delicadeza is kindness or attentiveness. It suggests gentleness – the exquisite qualities of sensitivity, tactfulness and refinement. All these virtues are born from a sense of propriety and decency."
I'm not suggesting anything or attacking someone. But if I'm the other party who is also interested in acquiring OR customers. Then, I guess its better if I give respect to where the clients originally reside. But that's just me.█ Ask for Server IP & Nameservers IP to check if your reseller provider truly provides 100% white-label.
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04-11-2011, 01:56 PM #119Always Ask...Don't Pretend!
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Just consider that as a "panic reaction" - I'm sure you will be doing the same if for example I told you that I cannot pay this month and I will just double my payment next month. Then you found out that I'm transferring my files to another provider one at a time then I'm sure your quickest action is to pull the plug. I'm not saying that this is the scenario of this thread I'm just sighting an example.█ Ask for Server IP & Nameservers IP to check if your reseller provider truly provides 100% white-label.
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04-11-2011, 02:05 PM #120Disabled
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I am not a huge fan of WireSix nor TSS but I had to come in here and stand up for what is morally right.
What really disgusts me is the fact that after Ryan/Gary announced the acquisition, GNAX decides to take down all servers to try to get the clients to go directly with GNAX.
GNAX and TSS might not have left off on good terms when TSS opened up their own facility, but what sailor/Jeff Hinkle did was VERY unprofessional on his part.
I appreciate that the bill was not paid, but we all know that Jeff Hinkle & GNAX did this on purpose because they wanted OpenReaction's clients to go directly with GNAX. GNAX didn't seem to work with Ryan nor Gary to bring the clients back online.
If I was the customer I would pay one bill and immediately move to another host, or possibly move directly to TSS because what GNAX did was very wrong.
If they are this hungry for business I would assume something is not right internally. So keep up the great work WireSix/TSS. In the end, its about the clients in any acquisition. GNAX does not understand that.0
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04-11-2011, 02:09 PM #121Engineer
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Right but the information at the time is that were was no outstanding balance. This turns out isn't the case (Atleast according to gnax) which ofcourse then the disconnection is justified (and I would have done the same) but it however doesn't justify what is ultimately a forced takeover/hijack.
GNAX is obviously in a lose-lose situation. Disconnect and they are the bad guys, leave them running and they lose even more money and more important they lose the one their collateral on any outstanding debt.Server Management - AdminGeekZ.com
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04-11-2011, 02:20 PM #122Engineer
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Right however the disconnection is fully justified as openreaction had outstanding debt (According to GNAX and why would they make this up, Given the situation I am inclined to believe GNAX on the billing situation).
In that situation what would you do? You are about to get stiffed on outstanding debt and your collateral is about to walk out the door. Obviously your generosity in extending due dates is going to immediately run out and disconnects need to happen.
The later part of intervening in the takeover is not justified at at level however and a more professional business should not have done this, in light of the other "acquisitions" that were on-going as by this point the problem would be 100% with OpenReaction+TSS. It would be their debt to deal with depending on the agreements and at no point would GNAX be at fault.
It was a stupid decision, in the heat of the moment, to attempt to claim customers that don't belong to you but what is done is done. It has taken he light away from openreaction for closing which really should have been the primary issue at hand.
Matt do you care to explain why GNAX said you are lying and show proof that you did not owe anything?Server Management - AdminGeekZ.com
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04-11-2011, 02:22 PM #123Always Ask...Don't Pretend!
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04-11-2011, 02:27 PM #124Disabled
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Right...
But we all know (common sense) that GNAX would of kindly gave a few days extension if they knew it wasn't one of their competitors taking over? Or does GNAX just not have ethics/morals like that? You'd be surprised at how many providers today would be more than happy to cooperate and have good ethics.
Either way, I understand your view of this situation, but I still feel the way Jeff treated this situation was very unprofessional and OpenReaction clients will not get a very nice first impression with GNAX/Netdepot.
It's big hosts like GNAX/Netdepot who make the rest of the "big hosts" look bad, but in reality there are some "big" companies in this industry who actually care about their clients. Not every company acts like a douche
It's more of a "we all know this in common sense" sort of sentence.
We don't have proof, but it's very obvious that GNAX did this for the above reasons, if you go through Jeff's posts.
Anyway I'm not disagreeing with you Scott, but it does give me a nasty impression all in all. Best of luck to the clients & GNAX.0
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04-11-2011, 02:30 PM #125
Last time I checked, server hardware typically costs more than the colocation it's attached to. The customers are hardly collateral here, the hardware is. It's plainly just acting out of spite and malice for all involved, as a bill would have to be seriously past due before the colo hardware would not cover it.
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