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  1. #1

    Starting a rual WISP - service?

    I have a unique situation. I recently took over a hundred year old, hundred foot tall grain elevator for my business. (We are using the cavernous bottom floor as a shop) This is the tallest building, or anything, for miles around. I'd really love to put a WIFI transmitter on top and offer internet service within a 5 mile range. The area is rural, internet options are slim. There is one other WISP in the area, but they cover a much larger area, and in my opinion charge too much. The only other option is slow DSL.

    My biggest concern with this idea would be where do I get a fast internet connection I can resell? I'm not even sure where to look on this? What kind of internet connection am I looking for? There is no fiber optic out there.

    I was looking at the website of my only competitor and they setup FCC licensed microwave links. Maybe I could setup something like this at the top of my tower for the incoming connection as well?

    Does anybody know how many arms/legs something like that would cost? Right now I'm just trying to figure out if there is even a remote possibility of me being able to do this.

  2. #2
    If there's no fiber then your only other method of internet would be a line of sight connection.

    Look up all the local data centers and find someone on-net there and see about getting roof rights to install the p2p.

    Point to multipoint setups usually lack reliability and throughput and a common topology of budget WISP's. The antennas are much cheaper and you need less which also results in less power. If you want reliable, dedicated bandwidth you'll only do point to point delivery but that's gonna cost you about $3000/install and maintenance.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by compITent View Post
    If you want reliable, dedicated bandwidth you'll only do point to point delivery but that's gonna cost you about $3000/install and maintenance.
    $3000/month or $3000 to install? I would be interested in making a small investment in equipment if this is a possibility. I found a couple of point to point providers in my area and have asked them for quotes. They show a rough coverage map with me on one edge so we'll see.

    I should find out who services the local high school, they must have a good broadband connection and they aren't very far away.

  4. #4
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    Check out UBNT.com ; you cant get everything you need. It is very difficult but can do well when there is little to no competition. The microwave link idea can be done using hardware available at the above site however the problem is establishing a link from an elevated point. If you can get the elevation worked out at the source of your highspeed connection, the site linked above has what you need to get it to your tower.
    Michael Vinocur
    Enterprise IT Solutions
    Helix Technologies LLC
    http://www.hlxtechnologies.com

  5. #5
    I just received a rough quote from a local point to point company starting at $300/month for 3mbps symmetric dedicated bandwidth. (and up) That seems very doable. They say my area should be covered but still need to do a site survey.

    Does anybody have any rough numbers on average bandwidth needed per customer? I don't want to oversell...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortyFour View Post
    I just received a rough quote from a local point to point company starting at $300/month for 3mbps symmetric dedicated bandwidth. (and up) That seems very doable. They say my area should be covered but still need to do a site survey.

    Does anybody have any rough numbers on average bandwidth needed per customer? I don't want to oversell...
    3mb isn't a lot, so to start with your 5 mile circle, how many houses in that area? (use google or bing maps, will help a lot)

    My two cents, forget making it into a for profit business exactly, make it into an official coop if you can get more than 10 people to share the connection and the expense. It will be better all around, and you can setup a small pay for yourself to service the units and ensure their operation. You will 'make' more this way than making a business out of it in the traditional sense.
    Last edited by (Stephen); 04-22-2014 at 12:06 AM.

  7. #7
    There are two small towns within the 5 miles I would like to cover with a combined population of about 3000, as well as a number of rural houses and farms. That 5 miles is just a minimum I'd like to cover, but given the height of my tower I can probably cover more than that rather easily. I feel like it wouldn't be hard for me to offer a reasonable speed that competes with the local DSL for $30-40/month. Rural folks probably aren't interested in the fastest plan with all the bandwidth in the world. The only competition for wireless in the area charges $50-65 a month for a 3mbps sustained/5mbps burst connection. (with bandwidth limits)

    Lets say I started with a 10mbps connection. How many users (roughly) would that support if they were all capped at 5mbps?
    Last edited by FortyFour; 04-22-2014 at 07:04 AM.

  8. #8
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    At max usage, 2 people.

    In my house, we've done 50GB of bandwidth in 4 days. No torrenting or downloading. A fair bit of slingbox use, though. If you average that out, it's almost 1.5Mbps sustained 24/7 for that 4 days. I haven't been home much, so that usage is even down compared to what it probably normally is. If you have someone who does 2/3 as much as me, that'd be 1Mbps per person..
    AS395558

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    At max usage, 2 people.

    In my house, we've done 50GB of bandwidth in 4 days. No torrenting or downloading. A fair bit of slingbox use, though. If you average that out, it's almost 1.5Mbps sustained 24/7 for that 4 days. I haven't been home much, so that usage is even down compared to what it probably normally is. If you have someone who does 2/3 as much as me, that'd be 1Mbps per person..
    The plans I would be competing with are limited to between 40 and 90gb per month. 90gb is $65. It sounds like you would need the $100+ plan, and even then it maxes at 140gb.

    I'm definitely not targeting heavy users, but, there aren't any existing heavy users because there is no existing service for them to use.
    Last edited by FortyFour; 04-22-2014 at 08:24 AM.

  10. #10
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    10Mbps is nothing... no one will switch from DSL for this.
    The local high school probably has business class DSL or a DS3 (or multiple bonded DS3's) over the telco lines.

    Find out where the nearest telephone company CO is, see if they will sell you a high capacity port based out of their building and if they will also sell you roof space for your antenna if it has direct line of sight for your point to point ubiquiti antenna system. You will also need a couple rackspace units for a router or switch to accept their network hand off and uplink your roof antenna.

    Don't tell them you are planning to start selling wifi as they won't like you trying to compete. Say you need it for your business or a new project or something. You want a burstable gigabit port but will commit to about 100Mbps on the port. You can expect like $10-$15/Mbps hopefully ($1000-$1500/month) just for the bandwidth, not including any roof space rental fee (if they have a lot of empty space, you may be able to get it free as I doubt there is any demand real loss to them on the roof).

    This is your best bet as they will hopefully have fiber going out of their local building to wherever...

    I can't imagine having such slow internet though... I have 100Mbps down / 25Mbps up at home on Cox cable.
    Last edited by ItsChrisG; 04-23-2014 at 02:10 AM.
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  11. #11
    If you dont mind me asking, how much is the DSL service there and the monthly cost of the other WISP?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    10Mbps is nothing... no one will switch from DSL for this.
    They already are. The only wireless competition does not offer anything faster than 10mpbs no matter how much you spend. DSL doesn't get much faster than 10mbps, either.

    If Comcast/Verizon was in the area and I was competing with them, I wouldn't have a chance. But you can't currently get a faster connection out there, it isn't available at any price.

    Quote Originally Posted by EtherVM View Post
    If you dont mind me asking, how much is the DSL service there and the monthly cost of the other WISP?
    DSL starts at $30 for 1.5mbps and goes up quickly from there. It was around $65 for 7mbps. They don't have a price breakdown on their website, I would have to call. My neighbors have it and they are always complaining about it being either down or slow. There is only one company offering it.

    Wireless starts at $25 for 1.5mbps, but quickly goes up to $50-75-100 up to 10mbps. All their plans come with a bandwidth limit from 40 to 140gb.

  13. #13
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    10Mbps shared with multiple people is nothing. If you aren't also going to charge them $50-$100, then whats the point? You will not get anywhere near enough people to switch from a service that gives them their own 7-10Mbps to you where they have to share that amount with multiple other customers.
    Already 10Mbps is barely enough for 1 person to watch a youtube video quickly enough without a lot of buffering -- now add in the extra latency, packet loss, and general slowness of what you are proposing ...

    Your service is always going to be down or slow too. It's a point to point connection -- weather, weird frequencies, and who knows what else will effect it constantly.
    EasyDCIM.com - DataCenter Infrastructure Management - HELLO DEDICATED SERVER & COLO PROVIDERS! - Reach Me: chris@easydcim.com
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    You will not get anywhere near enough people to switch from a service that gives them their own 7-10Mbps to you where they have to share that amount with multiple other customers.
    DSL cost $70-100+ for that speed and it is only the advertised speed, you will never actually see 7mbps on your home computer. Now my service would cost $25-50 and have the same or more advertised speed. It wouldn't be hard to get people to switch to that.

    Some of you make it sound like I'm trying to take a geek that lives in the city and make him switch from fiber optic Comcast to my service. That's not what I'm doing. I'm looking for old farmers who live in the country and don't want to keep paying so much for bad service. I might even offer a sub $20 plan that competes with dialup.

    My service would be every bit as fast as what is already out there. Slow by modern standards, but every bit up with the competition. And cheaper. No reason I can't do what the other WIFI service out there already does, at a better price. They don't have a 100 foot tower...

    I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Somebody else has already done it in my area, I just need to do it the same as them, slightly cheaper. Business 101.
    Last edited by FortyFour; 04-23-2014 at 02:40 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortyFour View Post
    DSL cost $70-100+ for that speed and it is only the advertised speed, you will never actually see 7mbps on your home computer. Now my service would cost $25-50 and have the same or more advertised speed. It wouldn't be hard to get people to switch to that.

    Some of you make it sound like I'm trying to take a geek that lives in the city and make him switch from fiber optic Comcast to my service. That's not what I'm doing. I'm looking for old farmers who live in the country and don't want to keep paying so much for bad service. I might even offer a sub $20 plan that competes with dialup.

    My service would be every bit as fast as what is already out there. Slow by modern standards, but every bit up with the competition. And cheaper. No reason I can't do what the other WIFI service out there already does, at a better price. They don't have a 100 foot tower...

    I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Somebody else has already done it in my area, I just need to do it the same as them, slightly cheaper. Business 101.
    Business 101 is tricky for that industry. What you will see if you start is that when people have something running smoothly and doing what they want it to, they may be reluctant to switch. Your argument is, that you will get them to switch based on costs. How much lower can you go? Between equipment, support, management, installation costs, bandwidth etc, you will need to turn a profit. As you have said these guys already have model, so it is important to consider that they have selected a price point that makes sense as well. If you undercut it, you still have to at a minimum deliver a product that is on par with what they are receiving currently. The customers that you would have taken from the competition will most likely be "price" sensitive and will not hesitate to leave you at the first sign of trouble.

    Instead of competing on price, compete on value. Find out what your competition does not have (you have already identified speed) and build an offering on that. For you target customer, price will be secondary to quality of service. The link that I provided you has a forum with people that do this stuff all day long. You could spend a year there learning for free.
    Michael Vinocur
    Enterprise IT Solutions
    Helix Technologies LLC
    http://www.hlxtechnologies.com

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    10Mbps is nothing... no one will switch from DSL for this.
    The local high school probably has business class DSL or a DS3 (or multiple bonded DS3's) over the telco lines.

    Find out where the nearest telephone company CO is, see if they will sell you a high capacity port based out of their building and if they will also sell you roof space for your antenna if it has direct line of sight for your point to point ubiquiti antenna system. You will also need a couple rackspace units for a router or switch to accept their network hand off and uplink your roof antenna.

    Don't tell them you are planning to start selling wifi as they won't like you trying to compete. Say you need it for your business or a new project or something. You want a burstable gigabit port but will commit to about 100Mbps on the port. You can expect like $10-$15/Mbps hopefully ($1000-$1500/month) just for the bandwidth, not including any roof space rental fee (if they have a lot of empty space, you may be able to get it free as I doubt there is any demand real loss to them on the roof).

    This is your best bet as they will hopefully have fiber going out of their local building to wherever...

    I can't imagine having such slow internet though... I have 100Mbps down / 25Mbps up at home on Cox cable.
    $10 to 25/mb in rural USA? I'm afraid you are a city slicker

    A t3 in rural US still runs over $20k a month......

  17. #17
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    Here's a couple of sites to do some research on starting a WISP:

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/wisp
    http://www.wispa.org/ (specifically their mailing lists)

    There's a lot to starting a WISP. A lot of single owners will tell you they don't make a profit for several years, can't take vacations, can't hire employees, etc. The WISP is basically their life until you have enough customers.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzukerman View Post
    Here's a couple of sites to do some research on starting a WISP:

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/wisp
    http://www.wispa.org/ (specifically their mailing lists)

    There's a lot to starting a WISP. A lot of single owners will tell you they don't make a profit for several years, can't take vacations, can't hire employees, etc. The WISP is basically their life until you have enough customers.
    That is exactly why I recommended a co-op instead, I KNOW several doing this very well, and they do much better than as a formal for profit business.

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