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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    They do provide support. its slow and time consuming, but, the support is now at least there.
    Sure but when was the last time you paid? We paid and waited a total of 83 hours for an initial response from open. Other users reporting 40-50 to 60+ hours. Off an 18 hour guarantee (as stated on the web site when you pay for support). To me this isn't an "at least". This is deserving of a refund and no refund was provided to us. If memory serves a refund also wasn't provided to 1-2 other members elsewhere either.


    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    I dont think you can say they dont care about their customers
    You're kidding right? Even their Polish customers are starting to get irritated on polish speaking web sites. Maybe it's just me being from Canada but if there was an audience i want to make sure i impress, it's my home crowd. If history hasn't proven that they have shown contempt thus far, i'm not sure what ever will for you Andrew.


    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    They recently added a simply amazing inventory management system and a fantastic monitoring service solution. I mean this sort of integration and innovation is simply amazing - and the prices they are charging might as well be free for this sort of capability.
    This left me scratching my head. The prices they are charging might as well be free? It's VERY basic right now for the monitoring software. I know, we bought it hoping for more. I will agree with you that the inventory app is a beauty but it is not innovation. They are simply following the footsteps of other vendors.

    I get it, you support them and so be it, but some of the things you say are just downright weird as to how you show support like some cheerleader. I absolutely agree they have the best software available and it's unfortunately a reason we're still using it because no one has tested the market yet other then what WHMSuite i think they are called. The startup company looking for investors. Anyhow, my point is, you need to stop supporting them like some giddy cheerleader when they release apps at ridiculous pricing out of the gate without prior public beta testing. There is simply no regression testing on any of the items they sell to justify the out of the gate pricing model. No doubt some of the apps released could be serious money makers but not yet. Not until they mature. The unorganized nature of KBKP just on their pricing page with "support prices" speaks volumes. 50 support tickets per month @ $999. They do not have the staff nor the history showing they can answer tickets fast enough to utilize 50 tickets per month. What business manager suggested 50 tickets in the first place?

    I know a lot of stupid people exist in this world but even the dumbest wouldn't and couldn't use 50 in a month, so why offer it realistically speaking? There is no logical thinking behind Hostbill right now. It's displayed instability, contempt towards customers and then some.

    Lastly, let's touch base on the $100 to speak to pre-sales. Let's be honest for once with each other Andrew, does this make sense to you? It's a poor business decision and drives against what even you want so badly. A renewable income every year/month for hostbill so it can grow and become far more stable.

    Anyhow, they aren't being innovative, they are cash hungry and from the ticket we had to wait for our first response and it's still open since our reply with login credentials (2.5 weeks now) this is not considered support. Mainly what i wanted to comment on. This is a dying software right now with a developer doing what he loves to do without dealing with customers and trying to make some money on the side because let's face it. He isn't feeding his family off Hostbill or ByteCP.
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  2. #102
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    I've used WHMCS in the past and now I have switched. I was using ClientExec for awhile and loved it. Now I purchased a license with Blesta and have been testing out their v3 beta and personally I like it. It's a for the more advanced user. WHMCS and Clientexec would be a lot easier for someone who is just getting in to the hosting business to use. But due to recent WHMCS issues, I'd recommend giving ClientExec a shot unless you think you can handle Blesta.
    Good luck bud!

    Regards,
    Nolan
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Sure but when was the last time you paid? We paid and waited a total of 83 hours for an initial response from open. Other users reporting 40-50 to 60+ hours. Off an 18 hour guarantee (as stated on the web site when you pay for support). To me this isn't an "at least". This is deserving of a refund and no refund was provided to us. If memory serves a refund also wasn't provided to 1-2 other members elsewhere either.
    Hello veedub, as I said, the support is slow but "at least" its there. That is my perspective. if others, including yourself have a different perspective - that is of course your perogative


    You're kidding right? Even their Polish customers are starting to get irritated on polish speaking web sites. Maybe it's just me being from Canada but if there was an audience i want to make sure i impress, it's my home crowd. If history hasn't proven that they have shown contempt thus far, i'm not sure what ever will for you Andrew.
    Im from Canada as well - happy Canada Day by the way !


    This left me scratching my head. The prices they are charging might as well be free? It's VERY basic right now for the monitoring software. I know, we bought it hoping for more. I will agree with you that the inventory app is a beauty but it is not innovation. They are simply following the footsteps of other vendors.
    I am not sure whats causing you the confusion. But, please do not go scratching that head too hard. I feel (translation = my opinion) - that they charge too little for their product and its capabilities and if they charged more, they could offer better support. That is my opinion and that is what I, as a customer, am requesting of them - better support....

    as for the inventory management module - really? which vendor has that? ubersmith doesnt have it? whmcs doesnt have it? who does? there are many REALLY expensive 3rd party solutions which a) arent integrated and b) dont really fit the service provider requirements... if you know of an application that handles the inventory management as required by service providers, integrates it in with provisioning and deployment and IP - please let me know, because I couldnt find a solution like this. heck, we were mapping out building our own when hostbill surprised us and released this module

    I get it, you support them and so be it, but some of the things you say are just downright weird as to how you show support like some cheerleader.
    frankly, you are simply too blinded to understand what perspective is.. I am honest and clear about what I like and what I dont like - there is no "cheerleader".. heck, you seem intent on slamming hostbill at every opportunity and intent on slamming anyone who doesnt see things with this product the way you do...

    I look at them as an innovative vendor, who have produced a product ideally suited for our business and our business objectives and vision. I support vendors like this because well - there are pretty well none of them servicing our industry...

    I also have some frustrations with how they operate and am hopeful they will work through them (please read this last sentence carefully and repeatedly).

    Growth is difficult. Growth on very little margins is even more difficult and more difficult yet, is building a sustainable support team for a complex piece of software without the revenue streams to accommodate it. and what complicates this further is customers who want the problems associated with growth solved, but, dont want to pay anything extra for it and scream bloody murder when there is a price hike...

    this is simply how I see things. I profusely apologize that you do not agree and that this opinion offends you so greatly that you feel the need to constantly reply with these sorts of comments and with this tone - and especially on Canada Day

    I absolutely agree they have the best software available

    bingo!!! exactly !! ding ding ding !!

    start with that premise, then decide if you want to be a good customer and part of the solution, or you want to further contribute to the problem (which your actions are doing)

    I have chosen to be a good customer and work with our vendor through this period - and I am doing this because I am hopeful and expecting that they, with the right support and input, from good customers they begin to trust - can make the transition

    is it possible this will all go sideways and we will be back looking for options down the road and working on additional migrations of our accounts to a new billing system? maybe.. maybe we will end up building our own (which I am trying to avoid) and maybe that day will come and you can give me the "I told you so" speach..

    but, until then, I choose to work with them because they are the best product available for our needs - and nothing else is even close...
    www.cartika.com
    www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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  4. #104
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    Hello veedub, as I said, the support is slow but "at least" its there. That is my perspective. if others, including yourself have a different perspective - that is of course your perogative
    That's not a prerogative - that's an observation supported by screenshots of the particular travesty that MrZippy posted HERE: http://www.hostbillforums.com/index.php/topic,259.0.html

    The saddest part about the whole thing is that this particular bout of "Support", surrounded the fact that something that was working previously (Domain syncing), was broken in hostbill core when 4.6.8 was released, cost the OP of that thread $75 to report a bug that took almost a week before a patch was released a day or so before version 4.7.0 was released 3 days ago.

    And the bug fix wasn't even announced after the patch was released to fix broken domain registration functions in hostbill. Once again, functions that worked before they were broken in core w/the 4.6.8 release.

    Yeah, that's support alright! NOT!
    Bradley D. Thornton - http://NorthTech.US - Registered Linux User #190795

    - "Ask Bill why the string in [MS-DOS] function 9 is terminated by a dollar sign. Ask him, because he can't answer. Only I know that." - Dr. Gary Kildall.
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  5. #105
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    To make a long story short I think that veedub is right and cartika-andrew is wrong.

    If invoice numbers are anything to go by, the Kris is raking it in at around half a mil. every 6 months. If that's not good money for a software developer, then I don't know what is. I'm sure that greed is a factor here. I would like to see more alternatives on the market, so I care a bit about what happens with HostBill, but not to the extent where I would pay current prices for it or the reidiculous $99.95 fee to ask the CEO a pre-sale question (ROFL). I owned a branded HostBill license that I purchased last year from HB for $200 and after 2 weeks I wanted my money back because I didn't want to put up with moving our customers to it and because it was a pitta to build a responsive template for it from scratch. So you can rest assured that I wouldn't pay a penny more for it now.

    We are starting a second hosting company and we wanted to give HB another try, so I've asked Kris to let me reactivate my license. I had to place an order and put the request in the comments because there is no other way to contact him. I've also included a 10 point list about the changes that he could make and implement in order to increase market share and sales. The guy isn't open to any dialogue, he just wants to pump and dump. Needless to say that my HostBill account was deleted as well.

    You may ask why I wouldn't pay more than $200 for owned HostBill - branded license? Simply because the company has an uncertain future. What if something happens to the developer/owner/ceo/lead developer/one man show that HostBill really is? All HostBill customers will be up the creek without a paddle.

    At this point I can't recommend to anyone to purchase HostBill. Just avoid it. Just say no to it. Stop talking about HostBill in public forums and stop giving this company any attention. Maybe a boycot is in order. If this guy wouldn't have been so greedy he could have had a much bigger slice of the market and a much more loyal customer base. Obviously he doesn't care, so neither should we.
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by tallship View Post

    The saddest part about the whole thing is that this particular bout of "Support", surrounded the fact that something that was working previously (Domain syncing), was broken in hostbill core when 4.6.8 was released, cost the OP of that thread $75 to report a bug that took almost a week before a patch was released a day or so before version 4.7.0 was released 3 days ago.
    so, just so I am clear...

    a software upgrade broke some functionality

    it was fixed within a week

    someone paid $75 to report the bug (and didnt use the free bug tracker - though likely they wanted an immediate response and figured paying for the ticket was a better idea) - was the $75 credited back? (honestly, I am curious)

    I am sorry guys - yes, this isnt ideal by any means - but, seriously - have you never had an upgrade to software break something and it take a week to fix it?

    as I said - these are examples of things I dont like myself. I would rather pay more and have more QA and more efficient support...

    but, these reactions are WAY over the top... I mean this post I quoted makes it sound like this is so completely unheard of - it never happens, its unthinkable...when really, its pretty normal... I know from all of our vendors, anyone who actually fixes something they break is a superstar - do it in a week? that almost never happens.. Juniper is one of the better vendors when it comes to support - it took them more then a week to produce a hotfix for something they broke on an update

    I see this example above as a clear example of the things hostbill needs to address and in MY opinion, the need to increase recurring revenue streams in order to really address

    heck, apple broke my cell phone for a month with a bad release where basically no one could call me and I would have to try 10 times to get an outbound call (apparently a bug which affected some carriers) - worked just fine before that update though, so, they broke it... I couldnt even report it to them, they denied it being an IOS issue and finally, more then a month later, they released a patch with "fixed connectivity for some carriers who's users were experiencing connection issues"

    All I am saying is a little bit of perspective here people

    and just to be clear, I agree with you - these things need to be fixed within their business model - positively and absolutely
    www.cartika.com
    www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixVPS View Post
    To make a long story short I think that veedub is right and cartika-andrew is wrong.
    lol - well, that settles it then

    curious though, what am I wrong about? are you saying that my opinion that we like the software and that we wish they would improve their support and QA is wrong?

    or are you saying that I am wrong to keep expressing that opinion while veedub keeps telling me that I should not have that opinion?

    Im honestly just curious
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  8. #108
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    lol - well, that settles it then

    curious though, what am I wrong about? are you saying that my opinion that we like the software and that we wish they would improve their support and QA is wrong?

    or are you saying that I am wrong to keep expressing that opinion while veedub keeps telling me that I should not have that opinion?

    Im honestly just curious
    Oh hell, I was speaking in general terms. Each one of you guys has valid points, however I am leaning towards veedub. I just wanted to spare everyone a boring TL;DR to explain where each one of you is right or wrong. Didn't mean anything bad by what I've said though.
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixVPS View Post
    Oh hell, I was speaking in general terms. Each one of you guys has valid points, however I am leaning towards veedub. I just wanted to spare everyone a boring TL;DR to explain where each one of you is right or wrong. Didn't mean anything bad by what I've said though.
    LOL

    its all good man

    I am honestly finding this borderline amusing at this point - people are getting flat out irrate with me because I like the software..

    I say it every time - I have complaints and concerns as well - but, the positives, at least for me, outweigh the negatives..

    I hope they fix their QA and support long term - I expect and hope they will... the product is simply a perfect fit for our business and they keep adding more really cool and useful integrations on a regular basis...

    I dont care how much money they make - I hope they make millions and millions of dollars... I just hope they find a model that puts enough money back into QA and support because that is what we need long term...
    www.cartika.com
    www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    Growth is difficult. Growth on very little margins is even more difficult and more difficult yet, is building a sustainable support team for a complex piece of software without the revenue streams to accommodate it
    Really not going to invest too much time here. I'll comment on the above as it's what matters.

    Growth on very little margins is even more difficult
    Curious question here Andrew but uh.... Who's decision was this? Yup KBKP i believe it was. Their decision alone.

    yet, is building a sustainable support team for a complex piece of software without the revenue streams to accommodate it
    I believe we should reference the above once again. Who decided this model once again? This isn't a Hostbill bash, this is reality. Growth sure is difficult, but when will you stop making excuses for them? Unless you suggested they stop monthly/yearly stuff which i know 100% you didn't then stop making the excuses for them.



    Lastly, my post isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of absolute fact. You and your attempts to justify these things is astounding.

    If you consider what KBKP does is ok, i leaves me to ask you an honest question. Do you treat your customers the same as KBKP treats theirs? You find this common practice? If so, i'll have to purchase a few services of yours and later review them and use your comments regarding KBKP as reference to what you consider perfectly acceptable. Something tells me you treat your customers completely differently then KBKP does and i highly doubt you run your business the same as KBKP (again of which you consider acceptable)

    You may want to get out more to see what true innovation is btw
    Last edited by veedub; 07-02-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixVPS View Post
    To make a long story short I think that veedub is right and cartika-andrew is wrong.

    If invoice numbers are anything to go by, the Kris is raking it in at around half a mil. every 6 months. If that's not good money for a software developer, then I don't know what is. I'm sure that greed is a factor here. I would like to see more alternatives on the market, so I care a bit about what happens with HostBill, but not to the extent where I would pay current prices for it or the reidiculous $99.95 fee to ask the CEO a pre-sale question (ROFL). I owned a branded HostBill license that I purchased last year from HB for $200 and after 2 weeks I wanted my money back because I didn't want to put up with moving our customers to it and because it was a pitta to build a responsive template for it from scratch. So you can rest assured that I wouldn't pay a penny more for it now.

    We are starting a second hosting company and we wanted to give HB another try, so I've asked Kris to let me reactivate my license. I had to place an order and put the request in the comments because there is no other way to contact him. I've also included a 10 point list about the changes that he could make and implement in order to increase market share and sales. The guy isn't open to any dialogue, he just wants to pump and dump. Needless to say that my HostBill account was deleted as well.

    You may ask why I wouldn't pay more than $200 for owned HostBill - branded license? Simply because the company has an uncertain future. What if something happens to the developer/owner/ceo/lead developer/one man show that HostBill really is? All HostBill customers will be up the creek without a paddle.

    At this point I can't recommend to anyone to purchase HostBill. Just avoid it. Just say no to it. Stop talking about HostBill in public forums and stop giving this company any attention. Maybe a boycot is in order. If this guy wouldn't have been so greedy he could have had a much bigger slice of the market and a much more loyal customer base. Obviously he doesn't care, so neither should we.
    Absolutely and you summed it up well. I don't care to win an argument over Andrew but if what they should be making every 1-6-12 months, they should have a feasibly sustainable business model and not require excuses be made for them. One thing is for sure, i'd bet we'd all agree on a few things that would stabilize their business, create a renewable income to sustain future growth and proper support. Unfortunately they've shown nothing but contempt towards their customers and no movement towards a positive end game.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Really not going to invest too much time here. I'll comment on the above as it's what matters.


    Curious question here Andrew but uh.... Who's decision was this? Yup KBKP i believe it was. Their decision alone.



    I believe we should reference the above once again. Who decided this model once again? This isn't a Hostbill bash, this is reality. Growth sure is difficult, but when will you stop making excuses for them? Unless you suggested they stop monthly/yearly stuff which i know 100% you didn't then stop making the excuses for them.



    Lastly, my post isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of absolute fact. You and your attempts to justify these things is astounding.

    As I said veedub

    I want them to fix their support and QA

    I "think" they need fixed recurring revenues to accomplish that

    whos fault is it? clearly, it is their fault for developing a model like this

    so now what?

    I want them to continue to do what they do best - and that is build the software we like so much...

    I also want them to be able to support us

    if I know their model is unsustainable - what am I going to say? I dont care, this is what I paid when I bought and you will honor this pricing no matter what? and not only will you honor that pricing, I will demand you fix everything I am upset about and to hell with you because you chose this model - sustainable or not - I dont care, fix it, dont you dare charge me more - or else... well, I guess I could say that, but, I dont

    If you consider what KBKP does is ok, i leaves me to ask you an honest question. Do you treat your customers the same as KBKP treats theirs? You find this common practice? If so, i'll have to purchase a few services of yours and later review them and use your comments regarding KBKP as reference to what you consider perfectly acceptable. Something tells me you treat your customers completely differently then KBKP does and i highly doubt you run your business the same as KBKP (again of which you consider acceptable)
    oh lord - its ok to not agree with someone there veedub - you dont have to go on the offensive like this all the time.. seriously bud, relax...

    as for our business - no, we always start really high with pricing and come down as we learn whats involved to grow and sustain the business... just read threads over the years on our brands - too expensive was always the complaint... should I hang a vendor for not going that route? maybe I should...

    You may want to get out more to see what true innovation is btw
    then why on earth are you so upset? just dont use them any more? what exactly are you so worked up over if there is nothing special here and you can easily get what they are providing you from anyplace else?

    what am I missing?
    www.cartika.com
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Absolutely and you summed it up well. I don't care to win an argument over Andrew

    bud, there is no argument to win..

    but if what they should be making every 1-6-12 months, they should have a feasibly sustainable business model and not require excuses be made for them.
    I dont think any of us can comment on how much they make.. but, if they did make $1M in sales in 12 months as is being guessed - and each license has a $40 annual recurring fee - it doesnt take much math to see where the problem is

    One thing is for sure, i'd bet we'd all agree on a few things that would stabilize their business, create a renewable income to sustain future growth and proper support. Unfortunately they've shown nothing but contempt towards their customers and no movement towards a positive end game.
    see, end of the day, we do agree on what we think the core problem is... I am not going to argue with you on "contempt" - because if that is what you feel, that is what you feel...

    I have never seen anything like that towards us - I always felt like I have been treated fairly with them
    www.cartika.com
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    bud, there is no argument to win..
    Figure of speech dude, relax.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Figure of speech dude, relax.


    ok, I know you're in Canada... you in Toronto by chance?

    next networking event in the area, please lets touch base - first 3 rounds are on me
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Lastly, let's touch base on the $100 to speak to pre-sales. Let's be honest for once with each other Andrew, does this make sense to you? It's a poor business decision and drives against what even you want so badly. A renewable income every year/month for hostbill so it can grow and become far more stable.
    That is by far the utmost ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. $100 to speak to pre-sales!? Don't they want to sell their damned product!?
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphisoNolan View Post
    That is by far the utmost ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. $100 to speak to pre-sales!? Don't they want to sell their damned product!?
    You could buy Blesta for $99 ROFL...
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post


    ok, I know you're in Canada... you in Toronto by chance?

    next networking event in the area, please lets touch base - first 3 rounds are on me
    Mississauga actually off QEW & Hurontario Just use Toronto as a global reference. I thought i had it in my WHT profile, appears not.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixVPS View Post
    You could buy Blesta for $99 ROFL...
    Never thought about it that way but very true. License vs cost to speak to pre-sales lol. Charging for pre-sales is one of the oddest things not just Hostbill but anyone could do. I'd honestly be willing to be 5 grand no one would pay for pre-sales. At least not from a software developer with a heavily tarnished reputation.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by lonea View Post
    It doesn't have contact information on their site because you need to pay $75 to contact their CEO...

    Never heard of Atomia myself, but I personally would stay away from products that doesn't have a lot of 3rd party support.
    Atomia has a fair amount of integrations it would appear. However, I contacted them a few years back and it was rather expensive. And I'm a guy comfortable paying Onapp and (old)Uber pricing....
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixVPS View Post
    You could buy Blesta for $99 ROFL...
    And it's secure, stable and fantastic
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  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by ************ View Post
    And it's secure, stable and fantastic
    Well to be fair it's in beta and thus it hasn't had any real trial by fire in the real world. Who knows, could be some issues with security.

    Blesta is nice, the team is awesome.

    When they come out with a few more modules, it'll be great.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostmind View Post
    Well to be fair it's in beta and thus it hasn't had any real trial by fire in the real world. Who knows, could be some issues with security.

    Blesta is nice, the team is awesome.

    When they come out with a few more modules, it'll be great.
    Should hire Patrick and Steven to break it and find the issues that way lol... they seem good at it
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  23. #123
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    Since this has strayed from discussion about comparing HB and WHMCS, we will close this.
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