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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    80

    does the average customer expect a web host to keep track of domain registrations

    Ran into a situation today where a customer who purchased a company, and its website (which I host), from another company, contacted me today and seemed to have an expectation that I should have informed them their domain was going to expire.

    My name / company name was nowhere on the registration so naturally I was a little surprised by the assumption. But I thought I should ask here -- as web hosts, do you commonly keep track of your customers domain registrations and when they will be expiring?

    The question assumes that you are not also a registrar, as of course it is commonly the responsibility of a registrar to inform customers of pending expirations.

    Appreciate any feedback you can give ...

    Tom
    http://www.dynamis.net
    A small domain host focusing on personalized service.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    na
    Posts
    256
    For any type of trade, it is always advisable to look into all the minor bits that are related. NO doubt you might not provide the service directly, it will be good to try to know as much as possible about each customer needs.

    That's why I do not host alot of customers but I focus on each and everyone's need. That's how you might build up your reputation.

    In fact, a good record of the domains can be easily found and i think it might be good to provide the extra to earn more credits from your customers.

    Hope this might help.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC
    Posts
    173
    I've encountered a similar situation a couple of times in the past, unfortunately we can't really keep track of all the domains a client may have that are not registered through us.

    What I tell the customer when they call is that I'd be happy to tranfer their domain to our system if they'd like and that way we would be glad to take care of the renewal each year as well.

    At most we enter the customers domain records we know about into ModernBill which has a rudamentary "domain watch" thing, but that also relies on the client logging into the MB system to check expiry dates so it's hardly useful for the client who likely ignore the renewal notices in the first place (or has wrong contact info in whois, which will eventually catch up to him/her anyway).
    Dynanet Network Services - 206-607-9075
    We Do Hosting - Established May 2001
    http://www.dynanet.ca/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,957
    We normally inform customers that unless they transfer the domain to us we will not be responsible for it, etc. Generally, people seem to transfer domains to us when they change hosting to us or know what they're doing already.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Australia (Crikey)
    Posts
    2,271
    I use WHM AutoPilot, and that automatically email the client when their domain is close to expire and when it expires etc.

    Pretty nifty hey ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    We try to as best as we can, but it's hard to keep track of domains not registered with the system. Usually when a client is ordering a new site, I'll offer them an at cost transfer their domain over to us. Then it's easy to look after

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    159
    The small extra services you provide to your customers is what really makes them happy and willing to recommend your company to other people. I think keeping track of your customer's domains can pay off
    Solid-Hosting.net - affordable multiple domain hosting solutions
    Reliability and Customer Service are our focus!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,708
    Modernbill keeps track of domains also. If we have the domain at our registrar we try our best to keep them informed of its status. Ultimately it is the customers obligation though, but we just try to make it as convenient as possible with all the crooked domain brokers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    UrNode - Virtual Solutions
    http://www.UrNode.com

  9. #9
    Greetings:

    We are seeing more and more cases where cutomers come to us from other hosts; and, where they either registered their domain name through the other host or on their own.

    Then even though most of the time they get a bill, they don't pay it thinking that their hosting payment with us covers domain names (not sure why they believe that to be so).

    If they registered the domain name through us or through H-Sphere (the automation system we utilize), then zero problems.

    However, for others we are searching for a way to keep them notified of payments due et all.

    A managed service client of ours that hosts with Rackspace.com suggested namestalker; but we've not had time to test it out.

    Thank you.
    ---
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    Not to be rude... but what does it matter if they expect it or not? Do you want to be known for providing the absolute minimum support expected and wanted by the average customer?
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    81
    It depends what the customer prefers. I can buy and manage the domain name for them, if they wish. Or they can do it on their own. If they choose to do it on their own, I don't get any payment for it (naturally), and they take full responsiblility since it's completely seperate from the business we've done together.

    However, if they would like me to manage it for them, I take primary control over it, and will notify them about a month before it will expire, asking whether they would like to renew it or not.
    Adam Reyher
    PylonHosting.com - We deliver quality hosting

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    The small extra services you provide to your customers is what really makes them happy and willing to recommend your company to other people. I think keeping track of your customer's domains can pay off
    Not to be rude... but what does it matter if they expect it or not? Do you want to be known for providing the absolute minimum support expected and wanted by the average customer?
    The problem is, as your company grows it becomes difficult to look after domains that are registered through another company.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    Originally posted by Reality Hosting
    The problem is, as your company grows it becomes difficult to look after domains that are registered through another company.
    Really?

    Your company can grow SO big you can't do a single whois query for them? Or get a programmer for an hour to create an automated system to do this?

    WOW.

    I never realized that webhosting has become a service-last industry; I must have been on my own dedicated server too long!
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC
    Posts
    173
    Originally posted by amusive.com
    Really?

    Your company can grow SO big you can't do a single whois query for them? Or get a programmer for an hour to create an automated system to do this?
    Well you will get big enough where automated apps could become a problem, most registrars are now restricting the number of queries against the whois databases. I believe many also have terms of service banning automated crawlers (in an effort to stop spammers).

    I have clients who register domains at say 1&1 because they don't want to pay me my full retail price for the domain, I really don't think I should feel obligated to provide them with extra service because they'd rather save a few bucks than pay me for the better handling of their domains.

    If a client lets a domain expire elsewhere and calls me wondering what's up I will of course help them renew the domain, but I don't think we should be chasing these guys down when they are ignoring the renewal requests from the very companies who should be providing the service they purchased in the first place.

    I do understand what you're saying and I think any host would try and keep track of the domains when possible, but it's not always possible when the domains are registered with other registrars.

    We hosts deserve payment for services and if a client wishes to pay $5.88/yr elsewhere for a domain then let the company selling at that rate be the one to provide the service the client paid for. If that company screws up then you can encourage the client to come over to your registrar account for the better service you can provide.
    Dynanet Network Services - 206-607-9075
    We Do Hosting - Established May 2001
    http://www.dynanet.ca/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,708
    We only monitor domains that are through our Registrar. It would be silly to think we would monitor domains elsewhere. Then there is the whole issue of what would we do if we monitored elsewhere. We couldn't help them renew and since the registries send out notices that domains are about to expire that would be quite redundant.

    We have lots of customers that never renew because they think we will pay it for them. Several years ago we did that and ended up with over 50 domains that were paid by us and customers never reimbursed. Now we just monitor those that are purchased, renewed or transferred to our register and it is up to the customer to pay the invoice for renewal.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    UrNode - Virtual Solutions
    http://www.UrNode.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    It's interesting you feel that way. Heck, even from a completely selfish point I could see monitoring the domains. I assure you a customer who loses his domain will not be hosting that domain with you (or anyone else) in the future.

    Automated queries aren't a problem. You need to check a domain more or less once when they initially sign up, and perhaps once again when it's nearing expiration to see if they renewed it. Even if you have, say, 100,000 customers, you would be doing far less than 1,000 a day. Cap it off at one every second or two and BAM, happy customers.

    That's just me though. I look at my customers and say "what SHOULD I be doing for these nice people that send me money every month?" not "what reasons are there that I shouldn't provide this service?"

    Fortunately, there are enough people out there that gives space for both attitudes.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    England
    Posts
    399
    If a domain is registered/ transferred to us, we inform the customer it is up for renewal 60 days beforehand and that is when the invoice is generated.

    If they point a name at our nameservers/ set an A record to one of our servers, while the domain appears in their control panel with us, it is set to not under our control, and we take no responsibility for that domain. I believe this is standard practise throughout the industry.

    With reference to writing scripts and the such, I would like to see the script written in an hour that can handle the whois output of every single domain registrar in the world!

    Cheers,

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    You don't need to connect to a single registrar to find the expiration date of a com/net/org/info/biz/name.

    I just wrote a perl function in 2 minutes that returns the date of any com/net/org/info/biz/name. Simple.

    I can understand not really supporting tv/mx/etc for several reasons -- fairly few people use them and you'd need to parse each differently. For the common ones I've listed it's cake.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC
    Posts
    173
    I look at my customers and say "what SHOULD I be doing for these nice people that send me money every month?" not "what reasons are there that I shouldn't provide this service?"
    I think most of us look at them as "I should be providing them the best hosting service I can provide since that is what they pay me for".

    If I sell domain registrations as well then part of that fee the user paid for the domain registration takes care of the work involved in the renewal process each year where we take the time to contact the client or automatically renew for them if that is their desire.

    Similarly, if a client only purchases a domain registration from me I'm not going to keep an eye on their outside hosting services for them to make sure it's still up, that is up to the client.
    Dynanet Network Services - 206-607-9075
    We Do Hosting - Established May 2001
    http://www.dynanet.ca/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    Really?

    Your company can grow SO big you can't do a single whois query for them? Or get a programmer for an hour to create an automated system to do this?

    WOW.

    I never realized that webhosting has become a service-last industry; I must have been on my own dedicated server too long!
    I gaurentee my company provides superior support when compared to the majority of other webhosts, but don't take my word for it, ask any one of my customers.

    That being said, I'm running a business and I value my time and the time of my employees (well just employee at the moment heh heh). I am in business to provide the best support possible for the services that my clients buy from me.

    If they decide to go with another registrar because it's cheaper, that's totally acceptable but they can't expect us to monitor that domain name that they've bought from another company for them. Sure if I happen to notice (some customers put us down as a technical contact) that the domain is nearing expiration I will remind them to renew, but it's just silly to expect us to provide service for a product purchased from another company.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    Originally posted by Reality Hosting
    that's totally acceptable but they can't expect us to monitor that domain name that they've bought from another company for them.
    Suppose you say this to someone who has their domain registration somewhere else (they had it before hosting with you, say). Then suppose they ask the question "why not?"

    How would you respond to that?
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  22. #22
    Guys stop your bickering...

    It is very easy to provide this service to your customers.

    http://www.namestead.com/
    http://www.digitalpoint.com/products/namestalker/
    http://www.watchmydomains.com/

    We use namestead and in the past have used watchmydomains. Although watchmydomains is no longer supported.

    Been wanting to try namestalker too...

    Shasta

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    I'm just playing devil's advocate
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    No bickering...just a civilized debate

    I wouldn't say that to someone, because I do realize you need to be diplomatic as a businessman.

    If a customer asked me if we looked after domains registered from another company when they were signing up I would let them know that if they want us to keep tabs on their domain they would have to transfer it to us.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    80

    Cool

    Thanks for the help ... I really appreciate the info and thoughts, and especially the helpful links.

    Tom
    http://www.dynamis.net
    A small domain host focusing on personalized service.

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