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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    And that means what exactly? If you've bothered to follow the activities and ambitions of the Klaba family you'll already know that they're pumping back all the profits each family member earns right back into the business for 10 years.
    Octave tells us so on his blog. Its also true in a way. The profits of OVH gets pumped back into the business, what of the profits earned by the other businesses of this family, that generates their profit primarily from orders from OVH?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    Please don't tell us that you don't sometimes draw on a temporary overdraft facility from your bank when you get a rush on orders.
    We (the company i represent on WHT) do not have to do this, as we have very substantial reserves. The 'small' debt our business has is primarily for tax purposes. There is really no need to draw on overdraft if you have a good business model. Personally i use the same model and do not even have an overdraft or credit card, too risky.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    Then why are you in this thread trying to put down their particular model? Sure it's not the same as yours, nor does it profess to be, and I'm sure you'll do very nicely out of yours just the same as OVH will do out of theirs.
    I dispute this, OVH is not doing so nicely at all. I think the sudden moves of late (raising prices, stop to take orders until at least the end of this year) shows clear signs that their business model 'might' be flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    Please don't try to smudge other provider's models that aren't the same as yours, because people could soon see through your posts about other companies as an attempt to put down the opposition which, judging by by your own posts and opinions here, aren't competition at all (or so you say)?
    I am an employee of the firm i work for. WHT rules do not allow for a personal account and a separate, business account. My personal opinions do not always reflect that of my employer.
    I am personally in this business since 1995 and know OVH quite well, these are my personal reflections and opinions. My company has no gain if OVH will fail/fall, on the contrary! i think the company may actually come to regret it.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Even if these numbers are correct, their weather-map profile shows otherwise, they still split this 5Tbps capacity between multiple locations correct? many users nowadays have problems moving traffic from one OVH server to the other, so they have some internal network problem, maybe its their DDOS mitigation platform? its likely they route all traffic, internal and external trough this platform. the OVH network is one of the top originators of DDOS attacks, so it would make sense to do so.
    5Tbps is 5000 gigabit/s divided over 170 000 servers (29 Mbps per server on average - 3 Mbyte / server) plus the traffic generated by their cloud/vps platform.... so less per dedicated server, on average. 29 Mbps is not a lot of bandwidth per server sold, i can say all other true dedicated providers do MUCH better then this.
    Replying to the above parts of your modified post (and I really have better things to do) you really don't get it.

    OVH don't deal solely in dedicated servers, VPSs nor cloud. They also cater for a million (or whatever the number is over a million) ADSL customers in France, along with SMS gateways, VOIP, their CDN and goodness knows what else.

    If you want to talk pure bits per server, then fine, let's do the same for yours. I expect you'll not want to do that as a comparison to what you posted above, so let's get back to the real issues at hand and not this "OVH has crap support and network" campaign you're on. Feel free to contradict me and continue if you wish, but be prepared for some real life and real number comparisons.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    OVH don't deal solely in dedicated servers, VPSs nor cloud. They also cater for a million (or whatever the number is over a million) ADSL customers in France, along with SMS gateways, VOIP, their CDN and goodness knows what else.
    ADSL access in France is a loss-making business for nearly everyone involved, except for France Telecom. This is primarily caused by the price of transport/last mile in France. To bundle voip in france (double play) or Voip and TV channels+VOD is mandatory to even get any market share in France and is considered a profit neutral activity, the SMS market in Europe is declining year over year, even the primary mobile telecoms are complaining about this situation.
    OVH talks about ~ 50k DSL accounts themselves in the last presentation i saw.
    The CDN never really took off well.
    I do appreciate they have additional income streams, as has nearly every medium or large provider in the market, their effect however can be both positive as well as negative. At this moment, if your not the market leader of access in a given European country AND you are not owning the infrastructure you provide service on (the last mile) its likely you lose money or at best, break even. They cite a lot of websites hosted on their network but also take into account the ones hosted on their dedicated servers, this amount 'could' disturb income figures, not to the amount needed to service the debt incurred so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    If you want to talk pure bits per server, then fine, let's do the same for yours.
    I would be alright with that. We currently have 11 Tbps+ of network capacity and ~ 5000 dedicated servers online today. This week alone we brought up over 130 Gbps of new capacity with NTT. Our network moves over 1 Tbps and comes close to 2 Tbps. We do not use a lot of public peering (yet) preferring to push traffic over private peers and direct carrier links in LACP (Link aggregates). This would give us an average of about 2200 Mbps per server online today vs OVH average of 29 Mbps per server, speaking only about pure bits per server.
    https://www.peeringdb.com/private/pa...ew.php?id=4137 heavy on Carrier links, Private peers.
    https://www.peeringdb.com/private/pa...ew.php?id=1264 heavy on public peers.

    -----------

    Btw do not mistake my intentions:
    I do hope OVH survives and hope they will service the low end market for many years to come.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 09-18-2013 at 07:41 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    We currently have 11 Tbps+ of network capacity and ~ 5000 dedicated servers online today.
    You currently have a 11 Tbps+ ability if you have to open all the taps and pull every ounce that your upstreams have in the locations you connect through, with a lower commit and are using much less.

    If I'm wrong, is there somwhere on your web site that I can look at, add up, and to get to those big numbers you claim?

    OVH OWN 5Tbps of network capacity (don't know what they can burst to over that, but probably rather lot more) and have 170,000+ servers on line today.

    Was there anything else I should comment on?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    You currently have a 11 Tbps+ ability if you have to open all the taps and pull every ounce that your upstreams have in the locations you connect through, with a lower commit and are using much less.
    Not sure what you mean here, we likely push more traffic then OVH at this very moment. We certainly commit to more IPT then OVH, as part of our business model is to manage 3rd party networks and sell bandwidth to them, directly from our partner-carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    If I'm wrong, is there somwhere on your web site that I can look at, add up, and to get to those big numbers you claim?
    I admit, the website is horribly out of date, years out of date actually. That is fine really, October 2013 will bring us the awaited new website does not interfere much with our business however, but it would be great to have a new site, finally.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    OVH OWN 5Tbps of network capacity (don't know what they can burst to over that, but probably rather lot more) and have 170,000+ servers on line today.
    They have a total of 5 Tbps connectivity and push 500Gbps to1 Tbps of traffic today. Its a lot of traffic really, nothing to be ashamed of, they do not own any of their long haul infrastructure, they do own their routers and switches but none of the fibers, waves or MPLS links used is owned by OVH, everything is rented or at best, in a IRU. This is alright as well, almost all parties do it this way, even the likes of Cogent for long haul.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Not sure what you mean here, we likely push more traffic then OVH at this very moment. We certainly commit to more IPT then OVH, as part of our business model is to manage 3rd party networks and sell bandwidth to them, directly from our partner-carriers.
    Good on ya! Ermmmm, what the heck has that got to do with this thread? It's about their ability to deliver servers, ain't it (with a few grumbles about deliveries and support)?

    And folks generally won't be interested in your commit. It's all about what they can deliver off of their server(s). Nothing in your posts here tell me you're better or worse (nor should they when the thread isn't about you).

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    I admit, the website is horribly out of date, years out of date actually.
    Let's look forward to the new one (and not in this thread).

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    they do not own any of their long haul infrastructure
    Bamm! Wrong! Come back when you've got your facts straight!

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    I would be alright with that. We currently have 11 Tbps+ of network capacity and ~ 5000 dedicated servers online today. This week alone we brought up over 130 Gbps of new capacity with NTT. Our network moves over 1 Tbps and comes close to 2 Tbps. We do not use a lot of public peering (yet) preferring to push traffic over private peers and direct carrier links in LACP (Link aggregates). This would give us an average of about 2200 Mbps per server online today vs OVH average of 29 Mbps per server, speaking only about pure bits per server.
    Nice marketing, you know if i consider my IB then i can tell you that capacity of my home network is half as yours and both statements would be probably true.
    But people don't really care how much capacity your hardware have.
    Please tell me what is your commitment with carriers. That i would like to hear. I don't care about your private peering.
    AND MOST IMPORTANT i don't care how much cogent and other carriers bandwidth you resell = you don't use , so please don't add it to your commitment when you will post the numbers.
    I've read a lot of your posts and what i've read today is just too much.I am your client too so i can tell some things about your network. I have servers in leaseweb,ovh,softlayer,nforce,i3d,swiftway and others too.
    The only thing i like with you is that you are flexible with what client wants.
    You say ovh is budget provider but i can tell you that i had better network uptime with ovh past 2 months than i had with you.
    Please stop acting like you would be playing in big league cause you are 15-20 times too small for that. And stop with that marketing bs numbers..

  8. #83
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    Here's what OVH needs to get out of this predicament: a quick trip to Costco. OVH needs to instate a yearly membership fee (besides server monthly fees) to weed out the hoppers. That will instill some sense of loyalty in their client base.

    Quick, someone go tell Octave!

  9. #84
    From what swiftnoc says, ovh owners are pretty savvy about using debt, corporate structures, and government giveaways to their advantage. This could be volumedrive times 1000. Go bankrupt and then buy your own company for pennies and wipe out the debt, using the money you made selling servers from one of your companies to the other company. Ovh will live on, but the debt holders will be awfully pissed off.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    And that means what exactly? If you've bothered to follow the activities and ambitions of the Klaba family you'll already know that they're pumping back all the profits each family member earns right back into the business for 10 years. Please don't tell us that you don't sometimes draw on a temporary overdraft facility from your bank when you get a rush on orders. Wait just a second, I haven't checked my Euro lottery ticket from last night



    Then why are you in this thread trying to put down their particular model? Sure it's not the same as yours, nor does it profess to be, and I'm sure you'll do very nicely out of yours just the same as OVH will do out of theirs. Please don't try to smudge other provider's models that aren't the same as yours, because people could soon see through your posts about other companies as an attempt to put down the oposition which, judging by by your own posts and opinions here, aren't competition at all (or so you say)?
    Ah, they didn't GET a rush of orders. They CREATED a rush of orders. Big difference. I can offer a server for next to nothing and get a rush of orders too. Seems a lot of current customers here still desperately trying to believe in unicorns.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    Replying to the above parts of your modified post (and I really have better things to do) you really don't get it.

    OVH don't deal solely in dedicated servers, VPSs nor cloud. They also cater for a million (or whatever the number is over a million) ADSL customers in France, along with SMS gateways, VOIP, their CDN and goodness knows what else.

    If you want to talk pure bits per server, then fine, let's do the same for yours. I expect you'll not want to do that as a comparison to what you posted above, so let's get back to the real issues at hand and not this "OVH has crap support and network" campaign you're on. Feel free to contradict me and continue if you wish, but be prepared for some real life and real number comparisons.
    You seem to think that the fact they have their hands in a lot of different things is a good thing. It's called lack of focus in the business world.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Let's call it lurve and only that alright
    Side note: time to log off today - 2:22 night seems a good moment to throw in the towel for today and say goodnight to
    Lurve: A play on the word love, often used by the people who TMI on Facebook that you want to punch in the face.

    I hope there will be no punching here :-)

  13. #88
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    i think this is because of a backlog of orders that happened a month ago
    i've opened a ticket to the sales team and this is the answer
    Good day ,


    All of our servers are now “sold out”, as can be seen in each “Details” page for each server model. This has happened following a very high demand on our clients' part for many weeks in a row. Not being able to deliver to a satisfactory speed, we have decided to temporarily close the ordering process. This will be a time for us to rethink the whole ordering/delivery problematic. All orders already made will be delivered, but no new automated orders will be taken until we know we can deliver servers at a decent rate.


    We will, in the next few days, have more details about the terms on which it will be possible to order for the times to come.


    Further explanations by Octave Klaba, CEO of OVH, can be found here:


    http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7405



    Thank you for trusting OVH, and have a great day!


    Reyna @OVH Support

  14. #89
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    They have done the correct thing tbh.

    - Alexander

  15. #90
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    To fix their issue of customers jumping to new servers, they need an auction system like Hetzner...but better.

    Basically have you standard server line, with a setup fee and everything. Price them fairly high.

    Then have a live auction section where the cheaper servers are sold. This way people have the option of paying less to be on older hardware, and at a fair price. It's the only way I see them surviving in the long run really.

    I've got little sympathy for them. Those dirt cheap Kimsufi's would have still sold if they doubled the price, and it'd slow down the demand slightly, or at least generate enough income to bring in more staff.

  16. #91
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    The problem is they have 170K servers total and just their latest data center has space for 350K servers. Not to mention that huge data center in Canada and the other data centers in France. They want to fill all this empty space with something. However it's hard to sell so many of the more expensive servers... Only the cheapest ones can be sold in such huge quantities.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev-0 View Post
    I have servers in leaseweb,ovh,softlayer,nforce,i3d,swiftway and others too.
    The only thing i like with you is that you are flexible with what client wants.
    +1 from me. I had very positive experience with Swiftway support, but network... Yes it's better than OVH, but behind the quality of i3d, leaseweb or 1000mbps.
    Last edited by magas; 09-19-2013 at 08:00 AM.

  18. #93
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    Thank you for the positive comments on our networking!

    The OVH situation has a clear effect on the unmanaged services industry. We see a sharp increase in sales with resellers due to the OVH "out of stock" situation. That makes me wonder if this situation of temporary non-delivery will result in permanent damage to their ability to deliver, which will cause a sharp decline in revenue.

  19. #94
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    I am thinking that the slowdown in transfers between servers is due to their new ddos thingie, moving files between your own servers using sftp is not a ddos!

  20. #95
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    If I was a competitor I would totally jump on this.

    I mean it is just way too easy, you simply cannot buy from them.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by aww View Post
    If I was a competitor I would totally jump on this.

    I mean it is just way too easy, you simply cannot buy from them.
    Because competitors want to lose money and continue to ruin the industry selling servers at 3 euros/month too?

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdrussell View Post
    Because competitors want to lose money and continue to ruin the industry selling servers at 3 euros/month too?
    They didn't just suspect 3 euro servers in europe, they suspended all sales, everywhere. You cannot get a server for any price in north america from them.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    My company has no gain if OVH will fail/fall, on the contrary! i think the company may actually come to regret it.
    I think you're dead wrong here. For each customer that signs up with OVH, that's one less person that visits your site and considers your servers.

    OVH is a competitor to anyone in this business, small or large. I am an OVH customer and I’m extremely satisfied. They stole my sale away from other dedicated server company.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by WireValley View Post
    I think you're dead wrong here. For each customer that signs up with OVH, that's one less person that visits your site and considers your servers.
    OVH has a completely different target market, besides this - you cannot sell more then that you can monthly deploy , our company does not see OVH as a direct competitor, maybe a indirect competitor but it eventually does not matter at all.
    We would not profit from OVH going out of business in any way, that's the point really. This may change once we have our CDN/VPS platform up and running, as the target or that might be more similar to the OVH target market, the original statement remains: you cannot sell more then that you can deploy.

  25. #100
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    Okay, whatever you say

    Again, anyone in this business is a competitor, small or large. Blockbuster never thought Netflix would be a threat. Steve Jobs never thought Android would defeat them in numbers. Should I continue?

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