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09-18-2013, 07:09 PM #76Always there
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Octave tells us so on his blog. Its also true in a way. The profits of OVH gets pumped back into the business, what of the profits earned by the other businesses of this family, that generates their profit primarily from orders from OVH?
We (the company i represent on WHT) do not have to do this, as we have very substantial reserves. The 'small' debt our business has is primarily for tax purposes. There is really no need to draw on overdraft if you have a good business model. Personally i use the same model and do not even have an overdraft or credit card, too risky.
I dispute this, OVH is not doing so nicely at all. I think the sudden moves of late (raising prices, stop to take orders until at least the end of this year) shows clear signs that their business model 'might' be flawed.
I am an employee of the firm i work for. WHT rules do not allow for a personal account and a separate, business account. My personal opinions do not always reflect that of my employer.
I am personally in this business since 1995 and know OVH quite well, these are my personal reflections and opinions. My company has no gain if OVH will fail/fall, on the contrary! i think the company may actually come to regret it.
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09-18-2013, 07:12 PM #77
Replying to the above parts of your modified post (and I really have better things to do) you really don't get it.
OVH don't deal solely in dedicated servers, VPSs nor cloud. They also cater for a million (or whatever the number is over a million) ADSL customers in France, along with SMS gateways, VOIP, their CDN and goodness knows what else.
If you want to talk pure bits per server, then fine, let's do the same for yours. I expect you'll not want to do that as a comparison to what you posted above, so let's get back to the real issues at hand and not this "OVH has crap support and network" campaign you're on. Feel free to contradict me and continue if you wish, but be prepared for some real life and real number comparisons.
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09-18-2013, 07:27 PM #78Always there
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ADSL access in France is a loss-making business for nearly everyone involved, except for France Telecom. This is primarily caused by the price of transport/last mile in France. To bundle voip in france (double play) or Voip and TV channels+VOD is mandatory to even get any market share in France and is considered a profit neutral activity, the SMS market in Europe is declining year over year, even the primary mobile telecoms are complaining about this situation.
OVH talks about ~ 50k DSL accounts themselves in the last presentation i saw.
The CDN never really took off well.
I do appreciate they have additional income streams, as has nearly every medium or large provider in the market, their effect however can be both positive as well as negative. At this moment, if your not the market leader of access in a given European country AND you are not owning the infrastructure you provide service on (the last mile) its likely you lose money or at best, break even. They cite a lot of websites hosted on their network but also take into account the ones hosted on their dedicated servers, this amount 'could' disturb income figures, not to the amount needed to service the debt incurred so far.
I would be alright with that. We currently have 11 Tbps+ of network capacity and ~ 5000 dedicated servers online today. This week alone we brought up over 130 Gbps of new capacity with NTT. Our network moves over 1 Tbps and comes close to 2 Tbps. We do not use a lot of public peering (yet) preferring to push traffic over private peers and direct carrier links in LACP (Link aggregates). This would give us an average of about 2200 Mbps per server online today vs OVH average of 29 Mbps per server, speaking only about pure bits per server.
https://www.peeringdb.com/private/pa...ew.php?id=4137 heavy on Carrier links, Private peers.
https://www.peeringdb.com/private/pa...ew.php?id=1264 heavy on public peers.
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Btw do not mistake my intentions:
I do hope OVH survives and hope they will service the low end market for many years to come.Last edited by swiftnoc; 09-18-2013 at 07:41 PM.
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09-18-2013, 07:47 PM #79
You currently have a 11 Tbps+ ability if you have to open all the taps and pull every ounce that your upstreams have in the locations you connect through, with a lower commit and are using much less.
If I'm wrong, is there somwhere on your web site that I can look at, add up, and to get to those big numbers you claim?
OVH OWN 5Tbps of network capacity (don't know what they can burst to over that, but probably rather lot more) and have 170,000+ servers on line today.
Was there anything else I should comment on?
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09-18-2013, 07:55 PM #80Always there
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Not sure what you mean here, we likely push more traffic then OVH at this very moment. We certainly commit to more IPT then OVH, as part of our business model is to manage 3rd party networks and sell bandwidth to them, directly from our partner-carriers.
I admit, the website is horribly out of date, years out of date actually. That is fine really, October 2013 will bring us the awaited new website does not interfere much with our business however, but it would be great to have a new site, finally.
They have a total of 5 Tbps connectivity and push 500Gbps to1 Tbps of traffic today. Its a lot of traffic really, nothing to be ashamed of, they do not own any of their long haul infrastructure, they do own their routers and switches but none of the fibers, waves or MPLS links used is owned by OVH, everything is rented or at best, in a IRU. This is alright as well, almost all parties do it this way, even the likes of Cogent for long haul.
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09-18-2013, 08:11 PM #81
Good on ya! Ermmmm, what the heck has that got to do with this thread? It's about their ability to deliver servers, ain't it (with a few grumbles about deliveries and support)?
And folks generally won't be interested in your commit. It's all about what they can deliver off of their server(s). Nothing in your posts here tell me you're better or worse (nor should they when the thread isn't about you).
Let's look forward to the new one (and not in this thread).
Bamm! Wrong! Come back when you've got your facts straight!
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09-18-2013, 08:27 PM #82Newbie
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Nice marketing, you know if i consider my IB then i can tell you that capacity of my home network is half as yours and both statements would be probably true.
But people don't really care how much capacity your hardware have.
Please tell me what is your commitment with carriers. That i would like to hear. I don't care about your private peering.
AND MOST IMPORTANT i don't care how much cogent and other carriers bandwidth you resell = you don't use , so please don't add it to your commitment when you will post the numbers.
I've read a lot of your posts and what i've read today is just too much.I am your client too so i can tell some things about your network. I have servers in leaseweb,ovh,softlayer,nforce,i3d,swiftway and others too.
The only thing i like with you is that you are flexible with what client wants.
You say ovh is budget provider but i can tell you that i had better network uptime with ovh past 2 months than i had with you.
Please stop acting like you would be playing in big league cause you are 15-20 times too small for that. And stop with that marketing bs numbers..
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09-18-2013, 09:01 PM #83Corporate Member
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Here's what OVH needs to get out of this predicament: a quick trip to Costco. OVH needs to instate a yearly membership fee (besides server monthly fees) to weed out the hoppers. That will instill some sense of loyalty in their client base.
Quick, someone go tell Octave!
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09-18-2013, 09:40 PM #84
From what swiftnoc says, ovh owners are pretty savvy about using debt, corporate structures, and government giveaways to their advantage. This could be volumedrive times 1000. Go bankrupt and then buy your own company for pennies and wipe out the debt, using the money you made selling servers from one of your companies to the other company. Ovh will live on, but the debt holders will be awfully pissed off.
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09-18-2013, 09:50 PM #85Web Hosting Master
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09-18-2013, 09:55 PM #86Web Hosting Master
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09-18-2013, 10:36 PM #87The Linux Specialist
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09-19-2013, 04:00 AM #88Temporarily Suspended
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i think this is because of a backlog of orders that happened a month ago
i've opened a ticket to the sales team and this is the answer
Good day ,
All of our servers are now “sold out”, as can be seen in each “Details” page for each server model. This has happened following a very high demand on our clients' part for many weeks in a row. Not being able to deliver to a satisfactory speed, we have decided to temporarily close the ordering process. This will be a time for us to rethink the whole ordering/delivery problematic. All orders already made will be delivered, but no new automated orders will be taken until we know we can deliver servers at a decent rate.
We will, in the next few days, have more details about the terms on which it will be possible to order for the times to come.
Further explanations by Octave Klaba, CEO of OVH, can be found here:
http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7405
Thank you for trusting OVH, and have a great day!
Reyna @OVH Support
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09-19-2013, 06:19 AM #89Web Hosting Master
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They have done the correct thing tbh.
- Alexander
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09-19-2013, 07:17 AM #90Web Hosting Master
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To fix their issue of customers jumping to new servers, they need an auction system like Hetzner...but better.
Basically have you standard server line, with a setup fee and everything. Price them fairly high.
Then have a live auction section where the cheaper servers are sold. This way people have the option of paying less to be on older hardware, and at a fair price. It's the only way I see them surviving in the long run really.
I've got little sympathy for them. Those dirt cheap Kimsufi's would have still sold if they doubled the price, and it'd slow down the demand slightly, or at least generate enough income to bring in more staff.
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09-19-2013, 07:29 AM #91Web Hosting Master
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The problem is they have 170K servers total and just their latest data center has space for 350K servers. Not to mention that huge data center in Canada and the other data centers in France. They want to fill all this empty space with something. However it's hard to sell so many of the more expensive servers... Only the cheapest ones can be sold in such huge quantities.
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09-19-2013, 07:55 AM #92Junior Guru
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09-19-2013, 08:11 AM #93Aspiring Evangelist
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Thank you for the positive comments on our networking!
The OVH situation has a clear effect on the unmanaged services industry. We see a sharp increase in sales with resellers due to the OVH "out of stock" situation. That makes me wonder if this situation of temporary non-delivery will result in permanent damage to their ability to deliver, which will cause a sharp decline in revenue.
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09-19-2013, 11:28 AM #94Web Hosting Master
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I am thinking that the slowdown in transfers between servers is due to their new ddos thingie, moving files between your own servers using sftp is not a ddos!
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09-19-2013, 12:14 PM #95Web Hosting Evangelist
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If I was a competitor I would totally jump on this.
I mean it is just way too easy, you simply cannot buy from them.
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09-19-2013, 12:15 PM #96Web Hosting Master
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09-19-2013, 01:03 PM #97Web Hosting Evangelist
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09-19-2013, 01:57 PM #98
I think you're dead wrong here. For each customer that signs up with OVH, that's one less person that visits your site and considers your servers.
OVH is a competitor to anyone in this business, small or large. I am an OVH customer and I’m extremely satisfied. They stole my sale away from other dedicated server company.
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09-19-2013, 02:07 PM #99Always there
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OVH has a completely different target market, besides this - you cannot sell more then that you can monthly deploy , our company does not see OVH as a direct competitor, maybe a indirect competitor but it eventually does not matter at all.
We would not profit from OVH going out of business in any way, that's the point really. This may change once we have our CDN/VPS platform up and running, as the target or that might be more similar to the OVH target market, the original statement remains: you cannot sell more then that you can deploy.
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09-19-2013, 02:26 PM #100
Okay, whatever you say
Again, anyone in this business is a competitor, small or large. Blockbuster never thought Netflix would be a threat. Steve Jobs never thought Android would defeat them in numbers. Should I continue?
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