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  1. #1
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    EIG and why they have so many issues.

    I was just curious to what the borg (WHT) thinks the main reasons why EIG Hosts have so many issues in regards to server performance (not with support not answering, or tickets not being answered) but just more of a performance aspect only.

    I was researching a bit on CloudLinux vs BetterLinux and I noticed that EIG Hosts use BetterLinux for the most part, and doing some research on comparing the two OS's, it seems that BL can hold more users than CL and I was wondering if that was one of the main reasons that EIG Hosts were having so many issues and complaints from their clients. Are these clients being limited so much that they're thinking the service is slow (based on BetterCPU or Better I/O)?

    I was just curious as I know there are a plethora of threads about all sorts of issues, but I was interested in primarily what their main issues are, 'server performance-wise'.
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  2. #2
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    EIG are the borg, not WHT.

    BetterLinux is not better. It's main use is for overstuffing servers. BetterLinux was developed by Bluehost's Matt Heaton. It's an internal project. You've already seen through the BS there, you just didn't know why.

    It's owned by venture vulture capitalists. They care about money, and only money, and not quality of service.
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  3. #3
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    Not for that think... On better linux you will be send to the throttled cores (which you fair share with all other abusers at that moment) after certain amount of time... with cloud linux you got hard limit all the time, if you not go over abusing time of better linux your site be faster on most cases...

    I think the "problem" (not for EIG) is that they do classical Asset Optimization strategy to increase profitability of acquired hosting overnight... (you can find articles for that in every other branch) they do not operate like hosing company but like financial company... Squeeze the profits (loosing some clients mean while - but majority stay or go to other of their brands) then use the profits go to next targeted company and repeat

    P.S. kpmedia is right just like the Borg, assimilate => increase efficiency => use to assimilate more
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    EIG are the borg, not WHT.
    I was referencing the collaboration of all our minds, and not really the "being the bad" guys part.

    Quote Originally Posted by DediCores View Post
    P.S. kpmedia is right just like the Borg, assimilate => increase efficiency => use to assimilate more
    Yeah, I guess I should have used a better reference for ourselves
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  5. #5
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    vulture capitalists. They care about money, and only money, and not quality of service.
    the customers are not the priority the investors are

  6. #6
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    WHT is a community. (The modern term is "crowdsource", which I really find stupid.)
    We're not one, but many.

    EIG is Borg, they assimilate. They share one hive mind.
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  7. #7
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    So based on server performance, what are their biggest issues? Is it the BetterLinux OS base? Was BL created to support EIG and their assimilations? How come we haven't heard more about BL? Is it still prone to attacks?

    There seems to be and old comparison but is there anything more recent?
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1280069
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  8. #8
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    You need to think business, not hosting, to understand EIG. And dirty tricks business at that.

    Take BetterLinux:

    "Dynamic Limits: CPU and disk I/O throttling. No fixed CPU and I/O limits, unless you want them fixed. Use 100% of your resources."

    Sounds awesome, right?

    No.

    With CloudLinux, you hit the resource cap. Your site is stuck, grinding away. The host does not have to do diddly to it. They will suggest you migrate to something better, but it's not harming overall resources. Only in the worst cases does it eat up 100% resources at 100% of the time, and have to go.

    But BetterLinux is different in a bad way.

    What now happens is your allowed to exceed resources regularly, even for small spikes, and thrust into the naughty corner when it happens. You've been harming others! You're scolded, told to upgrade, else be suspended.

    In other words, it's an upsell ploy.

    Again, think with your greedy $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ brain. Not your hosting brain.

    Furthermore, it's cheaper than CloudLinux. So it costs EIG less.

    Arvixe (now EIG) and Site5 don't use CloudLinux (or LiteSpeed) either. That's how you get "unlimited" for $5. They each use some Apache controls.

    I often wonder if Site5 uses a modded variation of BetterLinux, as EIG is a minority stakeholder in Site5. They have no say in how Site5 runs, but Site5 may have the option to use EIG/Bluehost tech. Their RP system is quite unique, accurate, and effective. (I ran some serious tests on it in 2014.)

    Site5 is an example of how to run unlimited hosting the correct way.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Take BetterLinux:

    "Dynamic Limits: CPU and disk I/O throttling. No fixed CPU and I/O limits, unless you want them fixed. Use 100% of your resources."
    This is what got me thinking about starting this thread. I know some CL users will simply not be able to display a web page if their resources are above the designated limit. This leaves users with high traffic spikes having their sites end up displaying errors. I'm not a big fan of that. I'd rather just monitor my servers and if I see a user with high loads, and quite often, I can get them to take a different direction. I don't want to penalize a user for getting a traffic spike, and that's why I use other methods to protect the server without completely killing off sites.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    But BetterLinux is different in a bad way.

    What now happens is your allowed to exceed resources regularly, even for small spikes, and thrust into the naughty corner when it happens. You've been harming others! You're scolded, told to upgrade, else be suspended.
    To me, this sounds like an okay thing. You want to provide that maximum amount of resources to your customers. As your user base increases, your users will notice the system slow as each user has a share of the global resources, so over time, I would imagine a BL hosting user would say "Over time, the server just got slower" because it is designed to do that. I imagine if you operate the server with the mentality of providing 99.9 percent of your resources to the users, and only when a user goes over the "bad boy" cap do they get moved over to throttled/jailed cores. I would think that is better than getting your site completely knocked off the web with errors. I like the balance of BL and the ability to cap once things get too out of hand, rather than capping mofo's left and right. If a site is using jailed resources it's easier to explain that "your site is using too many resources and BL put you on jailed cores to protect users" instead of "your site is using too many resources, so we just started sending your users error messages."

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Arvixe (now EIG) and Site5 don't use CloudLinux (or LiteSpeed) either. That's how you get "unlimited" for $5. They each use some Apache controls.

    I often wonder if Site5 uses a modded variation of BetterLinux, as EIG is a minority stakeholder in Site5. They have no say in how Site5 runs, but Site5 may have the option to use EIG/Bluehost tech. Their RP system is quite unique, accurate, and effective. (I ran some serious tests on it in 2014.)

    Site5 is an example of how to run unlimited hosting the correct way.
    I would be interested in finding this out as well. You can use basic bash scripting to get real time user cpu usages on exact and a percentage scale and take action accordingly without having to use BL or CL. I would rather have hard limits set if the server is being effected by the user, and not just because I want to limit you as a shared hosting user. I do see both sides of the picture, but I'm more about not cutting sites, unless I physically have to. A script using 100 percent of system resources, would definitely set the alarm, but if a user had a script that was using 25% of cpu on and off, I would rather have his/her content be available to the users and simply talk with the client to have the issue resolved.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Arvixe (now EIG) and Site5 don't use CloudLinux (or LiteSpeed) either. That's how you get "unlimited" for $5. They each use some Apache controls.
    All of our Shared Linux Servers use CloudLinux at this time and have been for some time now.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    WHT is a community.

    EIG is Borg, they assimilate. They share one hive mind.
    Exactly. WHT is more like StarFleet. Educated minds and lots of resources when people decide to search and read. Such a lost fundamental art.


    Quote Originally Posted by xlightwaverx View Post
    I was just curious to what the borg (WHT) thinks .....
    Have you seen the Borg episodes of Star Trek TNG and seen the track record of EIG hosts? Same end results



    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    You need to think business, not hosting, to understand EIG.
    Key point. Many hosts here think hosting and not business.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    They each use some Apache controls.

    I often wonder if Site5 uses a modded variation of BetterLinux, as EIG is a minority stakeholder in Site5. They have no say in how Site5 runs, but Site5 may have the option to use EIG/Bluehost tech. Their RP system is quite unique, accurate, and effective. (I ran some serious tests on it in 2014.)

    BlueHost already modified their usage of cPanel 3 years ago to prevent (or restrict) customers from doing anything that would incur resource usage like getting backups...so anything is possible.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by QA-Arvixe View Post
    All of our Shared Linux Servers use CloudLinux at this time and have been for some time now.
    I was unaware. Thanks for the update.
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  13. #13
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    EIG doesn't have 'more issues' than the average hosting provider. If anything, they have far less. But, because they've got millions of users it simply appears they have more issues.

    The issues they do however have, impact far more users, which tends to result in more complaints. Either way, luckily kpmedia is here to tell us all the reasons they're awful (for him/her). Millions of satisfied clients have to be wrong.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    They care about money, and only money, and not quality of service.
    Pretty much sums up things. Acquiring and cutting down costs is a top priority I guess.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    EIG doesn't have 'more issues' than the average hosting provider. If anything, they have far less. But, because they've got millions of users it simply appears they have more issues.

    The issues they do however have, impact far more users, which tends to result in more complaints. Either way, luckily kpmedia is here to tell us all the reasons they're awful (for him/her). Millions of satisfied clients have to be wrong.
    And other millions leave EIG brands as soon as they learn how bad they are.
    My "ranking" is kidding.
    I'm just a humble client, here to seek help and guidance from the true experts.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    EIG doesn't have 'more issues' than the average hosting provider. If anything, they have far less. But, because they've got millions of users it simply appears they have more issues.

    The issues they do however have, impact far more users, which tends to result in more complaints. Either way, luckily kpmedia is here to tell us all the reasons they're awful (for him/her). Millions of satisfied clients have to be wrong.
    You know the expression that if you feed a population of people dirty water, they will think that's how the water should be.

    It is one of those arguments that could be put on a fence, but if you asked the owner (or previous owner) of an EIG brand...they will say only 0.00000000007% of their customers have issues and everyone else is perfectly fine.

    KP is right that they have more issues, but only people like us can point them out. The common person will just think something is wrong with their site and not know that sql is overloaded or a drive failed or their site is being throttled....so the host can then offer them an upgrade from $4.95 a month to $147 a month.

    When customers have to check on their site 3 times a day to be sure it's up so they don't lose customers...something is wrong. When you have to send in a ticket once a week for an issue, compared to never sending a ticket...something is wrong.

    I won't get into my usual musical comparisons, but I turn off "music" from EIG brand type of artists. Quality vs Quantity.
    Last edited by WPCYCLE; 01-19-2015 at 10:37 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlightwaverx View Post
    EIG and why they have so many issues
    Because they have a lot of customer, so they have more issue than others hosting company, not sure if anyone did a statistic to compare the issue they have per 1000 customer, for example: X number of complaint per month per 1000 customer.

    They may have a lower number compare to other hosting company in smaller scale.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DediCores View Post
    I think the "problem" (not for EIG) is that they do classical Asset Optimization strategy to increase profitability of acquired hosting overnight... (you can find articles for that in every other branch) they do not operate like hosing company but like financial company... Squeeze the profits (loosing some clients mean while - but majority stay or go to other of their brands) then use the profits go to next targeted company and repeat
    EIG did not invent overselling/overloading*. You don't increase profits by pushing customers out. I cannot tell you how many complaints and posts about people leaving HG I have seen in the past year and a half. I would not think profits are higher at HG now (if they were ever profitable).

    Not everybody is a cheapskate looking for "unlimited" resources for their no revenue websites. Some people are willing to pay more for quality service. The simplest way to increase profits would be to raise prices $1 a month, not turn your service to crap and push customers out. And customers going from one brand to another brand does not increase profits at all. That costs money.

    How many customers are going to flee because of a $1 a month price increase? Will more flee because of a $1 monthly price increase or because of crap service? $1 is nothing these days, even though a lot of people seem to think it is when it comes to web hosting. For whatever reason, some people are not willing to pay for quality hosting service.

    I have a feeling the HG data center problems was an issue of biting off more than they could chew, moving too many servers too fast to a data center that was not mature enough to have the bugs worked out.

    Both EIG and GoDaddy are losing money.

    * I tried out a host years ago that was an "unlimited" host and got a refund due to server overloading. They are now owned by EIG but was not back then.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    I would not think profits are higher at HG now (if they were ever profitable).
    I think it's the opposite. Consolidating everything they touch is making them huge profits. They eliminate staff, server costs, space leasing costs, power consumption costs, etc.

    Then they take those savings an acquire another host. I have an idea which I start another thread.

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