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  1. #151
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    I think there's a server option for everyone, and that both rental and colo (or even RTO/LTO for an in-between) can have their own benefits dependant on the needs of the buyer.

    Personally though I've moved away from colocation, as I wouldn't like to bring any of the stress of colo into any of my companies. Yes, dedicated providers can have problems too, we all can, but the difference is who is responsible for getting things back on track when they go wrong.

    When there's a hardware issue, it needs to be fixed fast, whether HA or not time is money for most infrastructures. If you live right next to the datacenter or have someone available 24x7 then colo can work. However my situation is that we're based in the UK and although we have servers located here, we need to give equal priority to our global network.
    If, for example part of our US network went down in a colo environment, it'd be completely down to on-site staff to work with us, which of course means cost which on a wide scale adds up very quickly, combining on-site staff hours and hardware replacement.

    My personal rule for colocation is, simply don't colo if you can't get to the datacenter in < 30 minutes or so, day or night, unless of course you have a good deal on remote hands.

    Financially, you also need to justify long-term whether the investment of colocation is worth it, because it certainly isn't a cheaper option even if it seems so.
    Unless you can get great rates on used EOL hardware, or have an option to migrate old hardware to a lower budget service, then when the EOL comes you may end up with some considerably out of date components, worth maybe 20% of what you paid.
    Last edited by iexo; 07-07-2012 at 12:20 AM.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Singapore
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    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    What do you mean by redundant controller iscsi san storage? Is that going to be an external attached storage?
    Also will this solution be effectively allow the mirroring in realtime? Any URL or link to help me understand your suggested setup/solution?
    redundant controller iscsi san example: netapp fas2240
    http://www.netapp.com/us/products/st...stems/fas2200/
    this netapp san storage will have 2 controller, each controller with 2 x 1Gbps ISCSI port, redundant power supply.

    2 server have their own local harddisk for operating system, but data volume is mounted via network on the iscsi san storage via iscsi protocol

    Install linux heartbeat in both server to monitor heartbeat and services eg. mysql database, Server 1(Active), Server 2(Standby), if server 1 die, Server 2 will takeover the ip address of server 1 and also take over mount point of the data volume. Zero downtime for the mysql database in this setup.

    Server 1 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 1 port 1
    Server 1 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 2 port 1
    Server 2 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 1 port 2
    Server 2 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 2 port 2

    Getting a bit lengthy here, but hope this information helps, a lot more for you to read and understand, try this http://www.scribd.com/doc/36105045/S...-Kvm-on-Netapp
    Alan Woo, alan [@] ne.com.sg
    = NewMedia Express Pte Ltd (AS38001)
    = IP Transit, Colocation & Dedicated Servers in Singapore | Hong Kong | Tokyo | Seoul | Jakarta |
    = Singapore Speedtest speedtest.sg

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Singapore
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    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    The best is using VMware with HA and FT. =p

    http://bit.ly/NcEa2z
    Yes, using VMware with HA or FT, make our life so much easier.
    Alan Woo, alan [@] ne.com.sg
    = NewMedia Express Pte Ltd (AS38001)
    = IP Transit, Colocation & Dedicated Servers in Singapore | Hong Kong | Tokyo | Seoul | Jakarta |
    = Singapore Speedtest speedtest.sg

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by alanwoo View Post
    redundant controller iscsi san example: netapp fas2240
    http://www.netapp.com/us/products/st...stems/fas2200/
    this netapp san storage will have 2 controller, each controller with 2 x 1Gbps ISCSI port, redundant power supply.

    2 server have their own local harddisk for operating system, but data volume is mounted via network on the iscsi san storage via iscsi protocol

    Install linux heartbeat in both server to monitor heartbeat and services eg. mysql database, Server 1(Active), Server 2(Standby), if server 1 die, Server 2 will takeover the ip address of server 1 and also take over mount point of the data volume. Zero downtime for the mysql database in this setup.

    Server 1 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 1 port 1
    Server 1 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 2 port 1
    Server 2 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 1 port 2
    Server 2 iscsi connect to SAN Storage controller 2 port 2

    Getting a bit lengthy here, but hope this information helps, a lot more for you to read and understand, try this http://www.scribd.com/doc/36105045/S...-Kvm-on-Netapp

    Thanks alot for the info
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    I am about to finalize my decision.

    I have decided to get 3 servers...2 web servers and 1 storage server.
    The 2 web servers will be mirrored and then share the 1 storage server.
    Based on my finding i don't think i need virtualization, since i do not intend to use multiple operating systems. I plan to use CentOS and that is it, with DirectAdmin control panel to administer the servers.

    So i believe i will be using Pacemaker with Heartbeat. I will be testing things very soon to get used to this setup before proceeding to colocating. I know the moment i start colocation, there will be no looking back at all. So just getting ready for this lifetime journey!
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
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    10,710
    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    I am about to finalize my decision.

    I have decided to get 3 servers...2 web servers and 1 storage server.
    The 2 web servers will be mirrored and then share the 1 storage server.
    Based on my finding i don't think i need virtualization, since i do not intend to use multiple operating systems. I plan to use CentOS and that is it, with DirectAdmin control panel to administer the servers.

    So i believe i will be using Pacemaker with Heartbeat. I will be testing things very soon to get used to this setup before proceeding to colocating. I know the moment i start colocation, there will be no looking back at all. So just getting ready for this lifetime journey!
    Are you sure you want to set things up this way? The storage server is going to be a SPOF anyway, and access to the storage will be much slower than just using local disks, especially if you're just going to connect over a gigabit link and nothing else.

    Also even if virtualization is not a requirement to make things happen, I think you'll find it makes a lot of things easier.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Are you sure you want to set things up this way? The storage server is going to be a SPOF anyway, and access to the storage will be much slower than just using local disks, especially if you're just going to connect over a gigabit link and nothing else.

    Also even if virtualization is not a requirement to make things happen, I think you'll find it makes a lot of things easier.
    What do you mean by SPOF?
    What do you suggest will be a better option/solution?
    I basically just want to protect myself against hardware failure downtime and others.
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    What do you mean by SPOF?
    What do you suggest will be a better option/solution?
    I basically just want to protect myself against hardware failure downtime and others.
    SPOF = single point of failure

    External storage is usually valuable only with an internally-redundant SAN unit, or multiple SAN units. For servers, I'd suggest on-disk storage with DRBD for redundancy.

  9. #159
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkeith View Post
    SPOF = single point of failure

    External storage is usually valuable only with an internally-redundant SAN unit, or multiple SAN units. For servers, I'd suggest on-disk storage with DRBD for redundancy.
    So i don't need the 3rd server? I thought the shared remote storage server was to help with mirroring database?

    Also what do you mean by SAN unit, isn't the 3rd server acting as SAN/NAS storage? Or what makes a storage solution SAN?
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
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    Here's the problem with your idea.

    You want to have two front-end servers and then one storage machine.

    You think it's redundant, because if one front-end server fails, you have another. It's not really redundant, because if your storage machine fails, you are dead in the water.

    In conclusion, your storage setup needs to be redundant too, and that's complex to do right.

    Take a look at the problems lots of 'cloud' providers have with their SANs. Unless you invest decent money into this, it's really not recommended.

  11. #161
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Here's the problem with your idea.

    You want to have two front-end servers and then one storage machine.

    You think it's redundant, because if one front-end server fails, you have another. It's not really redundant, because if your storage machine fails, you are dead in the water.

    In conclusion, your storage setup needs to be redundant too, and that's complex to do right.

    Take a look at the problems lots of 'cloud' providers have with their SANs. Unless you invest decent money into this, it's really not recommended.
    Got you.
    So i mean how will you advice i setup the servers so i can protect myself from hardware failure downtimes and the likes?
    How else will i be able to mirror the database server in realtime?

    Can 2 servers using Pacemaker+DRDB+Corosync help me? Doesn't using Openfiler require a shared remote storage?

    Open to advice and helps.
    Last edited by nokia3310; 07-13-2012 at 01:34 PM.
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Got you.
    So i mean how will you advice i setup the servers so i can protect myself from hardware failure downtimes and the likes?
    Get at least two of everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    How else will i be able to mirror the database server in realtime?
    Mirroring isn't that complicated. Almost all database systems can do it with some configuration.
    ~ @PreetamJinka

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    778
    Quote Originally Posted by Preetam View Post
    Get at least two of everything?
    Seconded. It's actually very simple to just buy a second server and replicate everything in real time via a local LAN. Heck, you could even get away with near-real-time on a shared hosting server, as long as you're honest with your customers. Anyone who has ever suffered through a totally dead server with no backups can tell you how great it would be to hear the words "...but we were able to restore a backup from 12 hours ago!".
    The world would be a better place if people drank better coffee.

  14. #164
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preetam View Post
    Get at least two of everything?
    Before anyone does that.

    Make sure the host is using redundant switches and power to those switches. If the network equipment isn't redundant but the servers are, even with 20 servers, it will still go down

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
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    I took the colo plunge and it was the best decision I have ever made. Buying my server and adding another 4GB of ram cost me around $700 and my colo costs $50 a month for 100mbps port and 2tb of bandwidth.

    If I run the server for 3 years and amusing nothing breaks down the server is only going to cost me $69.45 a month. Show me where I can rent a 2.9GHZ dual core with 8GB of ram and a 1tb hard drive for $69.45 a month.

    Greg
    The Mc Nation: Your Complete Minecraft Resource Guide!
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwatcher1974 View Post
    I took the colo plunge and it was the best decision I have ever made. Buying my server and adding another 4GB of ram cost me around $700 and my colo costs $50 a month for 100mbps port and 2tb of bandwidth.

    If I run the server for 3 years and amusing nothing breaks down the server is only going to cost me $69.45 a month. Show me where I can rent a 2.9GHZ dual core with 8GB of ram and a 1tb hard drive for $69.45 a month.

    Greg
    datashack.net

    Quad core/ 8GB of memory and a 1TB hard drive for $69 a month. 45 cents less a month and includes free parts replacement. 10tb of bandwidth too.

    Wholesaleinternet will also get close to that.

    If less space is fine, reliablesite could do the same with a small SSD drive.

    If you don't mind dual core atoms, I could mention 3-4 more hosts.
    No need to worry about hardware failure for any of these providers. They all pay for the replacements.
    Oh yeah and if you don't mind a setup fee, hetzner Intel® Core™ i7-2600 Quadcore
    incl. Hyper-Threading Technology
    RAM
    16 GB DDR3 RAM
    Hard disks
    2 x 3 TB SATA 6 Gb/s HDD

    7200 rpm (Software-RAID 1)
    NIC
    1 Gbit OnBoard

    connected at 100 Mbit
    Backup Space
    100 GB
    Traffic
    Unlimited*

    Smaller setup fee vs the 700 you paid.
    Last edited by techjr; 07-13-2012 at 08:58 PM.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by techjr View Post
    datashack.net

    Quad core/ 8GB of memory and a 1TB hard drive for $69 a month. 45 cents less a month and includes free parts replacement. 10tb of bandwidth too.

    Wholesaleinternet will also get close to that.

    If less space is fine, reliablesite could do the same with a small SSD drive.

    If you don't mind dual core atoms, I could mention 3-4 more hosts.
    No need to worry about hardware failure for any of these providers. They all pay for the replacements.
    Oh yeah and if you don't mind a setup fee, hetzner Intel® Core™ i7-2600 Quadcore
    incl. Hyper-Threading Technology
    RAM
    16 GB DDR3 RAM
    Hard disks
    2 x 3 TB SATA 6 Gb/s HDD

    7200 rpm (Software-RAID 1)
    NIC
    1 Gbit OnBoard

    connected at 100 Mbit
    Backup Space
    100 GB
    Traffic
    Unlimited*

    Smaller setup fee vs the 700 you paid.
    True but I paid cash for the server and my only bill right now is $50 a month. Also I could have ordered the server with a quad core but for my needs it was pure overkill. The thing I needed the most was the 1tb hard drive.

    Greg
    The Mc Nation: Your Complete Minecraft Resource Guide!
    Now Featuring Xenforo 2!

  18. #168
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by techjr View Post
    Before anyone does that.

    Make sure the host is using redundant switches and power to those switches. If the network equipment isn't redundant but the servers are, even with 20 servers, it will still go down
    Thanks will take note of that.
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New York City
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    Not everyone is in need of collocation or needs to have their site solo on a server. Collocation overall is a great thing it saves you tons of money and helps you run your business in better ways.

  20. #170
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    Dallas/FortWorth TX
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    From what I have seen in the hosting industry. It takes huge commitment to do this business and a lot of providers small or medium do not want to commit or stay invested for the long. So the only way out without any liability if use a dedi and not colocation. No doubt we have seen lots of providers come and go over the years.
    <<< Please see Forum Guidelines for signature setup. >>>

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusai View Post
    From what I have seen in the hosting industry. It takes huge commitment to do this business and a lot of providers small or medium do not want to commit or stay invested for the long. So the only way out without any liability if use a dedi and not colocation. No doubt we have seen lots of providers come and go over the years.
    That is why i only go with reputable enterprise class providers.
    Some people look at price only and end up with some reseller host operating from a basement. I don't.
    Superb Houston/Los Angeles Colocation: LAYERHOST.COM https://www.layerhost.com/colocation
    *not affiliated, just recommendation*

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