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01-16-2008, 02:23 AM #51Web Hosting Guru
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I am with DH but am under a free year of hosting registerfly refugee deal...so I never had a CC on file. Lucky me. However either way my bank caps all daily spending limits for debit/credit cards at $300 and, having that much in there, wouldn't hurt me since it would be getting refunded fairly quickly. I'm surprised so many people were able to be charged into overdrafting and such without hitting some sort of daily spending limit. I think this whole deal is just...dumb. I think it's unreal that basically every client with auto-renew was charged...a LOT. $7.5M is not chump change that's serious money and especially with all of the overdraft and repeated charge repercussions, DH is basically going to get screwed in the next few weeks with notices from banks all over and such. They will have fun I'm sure. But I wasn't particularly angry about the whole incident...it was human error it happens but yes it should have been prevented.
HOWEVER. While the rest of the internet cracks at DH for the fiasco, Lunarpages decides it would be a good idea to be a bunch of bastards and post a lovely blog post about the whole incident. http://blog.lunarpages.com Enjoy. After reading that I want to seriously choke the person who wrote that...So let's see here dreamhost schools lunarpages in hosting and they are really jealous but can't do anything except copy features and raise disk space and bandwidth to 1.5TB and 15TB, respectively, man that's a ton of space those are some big drives and such a bargain at $6.95/mo! THEN, they make this blog post to harvest customers from dreamhost, taking COMPLETE advantage of vulnerable people in a sensitive situation. This requires no effort at all, it's a cheap shot and free way for lunarpages to be like "hey...look at us we sure didn't make any billing error and we will discount you so come here!" In fact they are SO interested in stealing dreamhost clients that they even offer to pay 9 months worth of your hosting contract off with them! hahahaha....the whole post shows TERRIBLE character and maturity in lunarpages and they just tried to make dream host look really bad by showing a previous joking blog post as seemingly foreshadowing and serious?
Real cool.0
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01-16-2008, 03:15 AM #52Retired Moderator
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Lunarpages decides it would be a good idea to be a bunch of bastards0
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01-16-2008, 04:07 AM #53Web Hosting Master
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As mentioned, this situation was just handled inappropriately by Dreamhost from a PR perspective. The billing issue was rectified quickly enough and mistakes happen - most of us can live with that - but the "blow it off, no big deal" tone of their blog post has really just a big mistake. I don't think it's simply a matter of opinion but this really is a huge mistake, should be taken very seriously, and addressed very seriously.
And they better, absolutely be willing to pay customers back for the overdrafts, NSF fees, overlimits, misc. etc. etc. that will invariably hit a bunch of people as a result of charging up a year's worth of service. In any case, I bet their customer service phone lines will be on fire for the next month.0
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01-16-2008, 05:40 AM #54Web Hosting Master
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01-16-2008, 08:44 AM #55Junior Guru Wannabe
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openSUSE user0
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01-16-2008, 09:10 AM #56Web Hosting Evangelist
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They overcharged people based on the date being December 31 2008, This would affect anyone paying yearly who hasn't paid yet in the 16 days of this year, as well as anyone paying monthly, quarterly and semi-annually. As you could probably guess this is likely the largest portion of their client base and $7.5M probably represents about 75% of their gross income yearly.
Looking for Work level 1-3 Support Tech, Sales/billing tech, Odd management Jobs, and PHP/Mysql small jobs.
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01-16-2008, 09:25 AM #57New Member
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My main issues with this whole situation is -
1) Attitude - they really needed to be a bit more respectful with the entire situation. It wasn't something that could be easily washed over.
2) Many people due to this issue are having to face tons of over draft charges. They need to refund these charges as well.
3) A lot of the websites were disabled due to this, the system saying they were delinquent. A good majority of the sites still are not up and running, this is cutting into a lot of peoples income. Most of them are getting the - error id: "bad_httpd_conf" message on their website.0
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01-16-2008, 09:49 AM #58I'm good with computers.
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I just finished reading this thread and was actually really impressed by how mature and professional you all kept things through this really crappy issue.
We screwed up and for the most part everyone was understanding and supportive while we figured out and fixed the issue.
I'm really sorry for anyone that was negatively impacted by this, so please remember to get in touch with us (via the support form, not here or anywhere else!) if you've been charged fees by your bank because of this issue. We'll do our best to make it right.
You might also consider contacting your bank directly and asking to have the fees removed. They should be able to see that the pending charge (probably) didn't have time to post to your account and that a refund for it is pending as well.
Thanks again for being cool!█ DreamHost Web Hosting
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01-16-2008, 10:00 AM #59Mobile Multimedia Minimalist
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That is true. Being a long time customer of DreamHost (since 1999), I would say that it's sometimes better to take bad things that way; and I don't have problem with them being joking, AS LONG AS it comes with some SUBSTANTIAL compensation (like taking AT LEAST a couple of months' bills off, if not 3 or 6 months), which we have NOT heard from them YET.
What I STILL like about DreamHost is their being honest and upfront. These days, VERY FEW companies (web hosting or else) do that. After all, it's Josh who screwed up, so what could they do, fire him? (From my limited contact with him, Josh is a nice and FAIR guy.)Co-Founder @HostHideout. Profoundly influenced by #Bauhaus, @Nameslave unrepentantly embraces #Minimalism with a bias for functionality, color theory and pixel precision: a #multimedia messenger in the McLuhan sense. His totally irrelevant M.Ed. dissertation examines Organizational Culture and Change Management. He also likes Patrik Ervell, Wong Kar-wai and IKEA.0
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01-16-2008, 10:21 AM #60Web Hosting Master
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It's quite low of Lunarpages to have Amy Armitage & Mitch Keeler out in full swing, e.g.:
http://www.mitchelaneous.com/2008/01...harge-you-yet/
In fact it's sad. Dreamhost has always been known for their Josh-style blog posts, it's all fun and games. When Lunarpages 'ups the ante' by offering their own little refugee codes -- well, karma'll answer their call. (Nothing wrong with helping out those in need, but this is just a fluke / screw-up -- they're covering reimbursements for any fees and that makes them a-okay in my book).0
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01-16-2008, 10:51 AM #61I'm good with computers.
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Full disclosure: I believe they made that post in response to DreamHost offering 'refugee codes' and blog posts about their company like this one: http://blog.dreamhost.com/2007/10/10...our-customers/
They finally had an opportunity to strike back.
The commentary from the 'Renown Web Development Technician and Software Development Lead' did make for some funny reading, though. What's a 'portal infrastructure' anyway?!█ DreamHost Web Hosting
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01-16-2008, 10:56 AM #62Web Hosting Master
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01-16-2008, 10:58 AM #63Web Hosting Master
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Oh, I understand that it wasn't completely unwarranted -- Josh can be a nasty little brat sometimes.. but on the other hand, Lunarpages had the opportunity to take the 'high road'. (Josh seems to frequently take another sort of 'high road'. Darn whippersnappers, stay off the grass!)
In the end I think you folks (despite any fees & a few thousand lost clients) have remained relatively unscathed from this incident. Performancewise, as a client myself, all I could have asked for was a faster burst e-mail sent out rather than having to find out about it through the 'internet tubes'.
The drawback of not having been the first to tell your clients, is they end up reading about it on sites like mine.. and that is not at all in your best interest0
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01-16-2008, 11:00 AM #64Newbie
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I remember that LP refugee offer and Josh’s blog post, and quite frankly was rather put off by it. Written in somewhat of a smug tone, all the while kicking somebody when they’re down. Hopefully this little incident will remind DH that they’re not perfect either.
That being said, DH appears to be handling the situation in the best way they can and I have no complaints about that. I just hope the financial fallout does not have a significant impact on the company. From what I’ve read here, unless you’ve found a nice little niche, the hosting biz does not have very high margins.
(been with DH for three years)0
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01-16-2008, 11:02 AM #65Web Hosting Master
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01-16-2008, 11:02 AM #66Away
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Mistakes happen, nothing to see here so move along.
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01-16-2008, 11:04 AM #67New Member
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I saw someone mention on another site about wondering if there would be a class action law suit due to this. Not against Dream Host but against all the people who are posting the slander. I have seen many post today all over the net titled - Robbing Your Customers and such - where they are posting the mistake but not the actions Dream Host is taking to correct them. It is getting rather nasty out there.
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01-16-2008, 11:11 AM #68Web Hosting Master
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01-16-2008, 11:21 AM #69Web Hosting Master
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01-16-2008, 11:28 AM #70I'm good with computers.
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We did consider this but the fact that the initial billing receipt emails took a number of hours to reach user's inboxes made adding another email prior to the automated one saying that everything's fixed seem like a bad idea.
We do mention that the DreamHost Status page is the only official way to receive updates about the service in our initial signup emails, though.█ DreamHost Web Hosting
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01-16-2008, 11:31 AM #71Web Hosting Master
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Potentially, but not as long as you made the issue as clear as possible: e.g. you may or may not have received an e-mail about ... please disregard it when you do. Some users may have been inadvertently charged via credit card & we're working feverishly to promptly refund all invalid fees.
What users want is transparency, they want to know you know about the problem and are dealing with it. But you know this, you've been around the block Next time, e-mail faster & let everyone know that additional updates will be available via the status blog. That little extra reassurance will reduce your client churn rate by a worthy amount.
Yes, but this was an exceptional case that deserved an exceptional response. There were a lot of scared clients yesterday & you could have at least made some extra strides to ensure they were calm and collected. I ended up receiving an e-mail later in the day about it, so maybe you did send it early but -- it should have been sent the moment the issue became known.Last edited by David; 01-16-2008 at 11:38 AM.
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01-16-2008, 11:56 AM #72Too smart for her own good.
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There's going to be a lot more than bank fees.
Anyone who bounces a check is going to also have NSF fees imposed on them by the business where they tried to pass the check.
Anyone who bounces a check may well be put on a check-writing "black list" at that business, so they will not be allowed to write a check there again. Yes, even if it's not their fault -- there are business owners out there who hold a grudge. And there are administrative mistakes, sometimes people just aren't taken off the blacklist even though a full course of written letters have been exchanged. Now the victim has to go through the embarrassment of still having their check refused, and having to go through another round of documentation about what happened.
Anyone who bounces multiple checks will need to spend their valuable time writing letters, sending documentation showing this was not their fault, ensuring their local accounts are cleared of all wrongdoing.
Anyone who bounces a check also needs to watch their mail very closely, and pro-actively follow up on all potentially bounced checks that they have written (hope to GOD they have written those checks down in their check registers!!) as those NSF checks are considered CRIMINAL acts by all states, and a bounced check can turn into misdemeanor or felony criminal charges. Businesses do not always contact the individual who has passed a bad check ... similarly, your local district attorney's office will not necessarily contact you prior to filing criminal charges against you. Or, they will contact you via an unmarked envelope that does not say "District Attorney's Office" on it anywhere -- it won't be apparent that it's important legal correspondence. They will not always send a police officer to your home to ask you if you meant to write a bad check, prior to filing criminal charges against you. The presumption is not 'innocent until proven guilty' at the D.A./filing charges stage. And defending yourself in court costs BIG bucks.
Not to mention the emotional drain that all this creates. This is not funny. This is frustrating, stressful, upsetting, and causes embarrassment even when it's not your fault. It doesn't matter that it's someone else's fault... when you don't make a habit of writing bad checks, to have things bounce feels supremely embarrassing. Let alone the anger... I won't even go into the anger.
The lack of compassion and apparent cluelessness exhibited by Dreamhost in response to this is simply egregious, IMO.
BaileyLast edited by bithost(NET); 01-16-2008 at 12:00 PM.
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01-16-2008, 11:59 AM #73Junior Guru Wannabe
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Ok, I see your point there - maybe that was a 'bit too extreme. Fixed.
Here's another link for those wanting more info, the Google blog search link for "dreamhost".0
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01-16-2008, 01:12 PM #74Web Hosting Master
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Yes, but the significant difference here is that Dreamhost has made an accidental mistake... whereas Lunarpages intentionally tried to sneak an exploitation of their customers by, and then outright lied about the whole deal once caught. Dreamhost is being kicked while they're down.... Lunarpages was being kicked while they were scammin!
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01-16-2008, 02:26 PM #75Web Hosting Master
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You would hope someone of this size would have sufficient preventative checks from allowing this to happen. But then you'd also assume good operational management and business-like ethos, considering that it's peoples livelihoods at stake.
Then again, this is DreamHost...Matthew Russell | Namecheap
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