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Thread: Cogent and Level 3 [Merged]
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10-05-2005, 11:57 AM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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Major Problems with Cogent.
Hi,
I am from ny and noticed that i cannot connect to any cogent servers. I looked in to this and got some info.
Snipped from another forum.
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CogentCo lost a major peer, and has chosen not to use their Verio transit to complete their reachability, which essentially eliminates Cogent's connectivity to many interesting places on the internet (such as Time Warner Cable), most MSN Dialup, NetZero/Juno/BlueLight/United Online Dialup, and many others.
Level 3 basically pulled the plug on cogent.
http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreb...assword=public
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10-05-2005, 11:59 AM #2WebHostingTalk Lover
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That doesn't sound too good.
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10-05-2005, 12:09 PM #3Eternal Member
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From Cogent's looking glass in Washington:
trace level3.net
Translating "level3.net"...domain server (66.28.0.45) (66.28.0.61)
% Unrecognized host or address.
From Level 3's looking glass in CA:
Invalid IP address or hostname 'cogentco.com'!
Enter a valid four-octet IP network number or
a hostname that can successfully be looked up via DNS.Last edited by layer0; 10-05-2005 at 12:17 PM.
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10-05-2005, 12:30 PM #4Aspiring Evangelist
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You should take a look at this post, http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...5&pagenumber=2 and read through it. There is an interesting statement in one of the posts:
"FYI, Level(3) just sent notification of depeering to Cogent, Saavis, Wiltel, XO and a dozen others. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come. All it takes is the seven North American basedTier 1 providers (MCI, AT&T, Sprint, Level(3), Qwest, TWTC and GBLX) to follow suit, and market prices will increase again and the garbage networks will no longer exist. I can't wait for the day!"
Looks like that day may have finally come. Should be interesting.0
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10-05-2005, 12:53 PM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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Level 3 basically pulled the plug on cogent.0
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10-05-2005, 01:00 PM #6Eternal Member
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Originally posted by OC404
Can somebody please explain what that means in layman terms? I just posted an earlier thread regarding addr.com being down. The feedback I am now getting from them is placing the blame on Cogent.com, who is apparently their isp. In terms of my addr accounts, how deep is the hole I'm in? Thanks for helping a novice who's seriously frustrated and confused.
The issue athand basically means this:
Any ISP using Level 3 cannot connect to a site using Cogent because Level 3 dropped Cogent as a peer (they're no longer exchaning traffic with eachother). Cogent chose to not route around this issue either (they presumably could).
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10-05-2005, 01:20 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by elix
Some users will be unable to access your accounts/sites. Any responsible host will have other providers in their bandwidth mix and route around any "funny stuff".
The issue athand basically means this:
Any ISP using Level 3 cannot connect to a site using Cogent because Level 3 dropped Cogent as a peer (they're no longer exchaning traffic with eachother). Cogent chose to not route around this issue either (they presumably could).
Hope this helps a bit =)
Bottom line, Cogent is screwing their customer base, in an attempt to force Level3's hand into re-peering. If you unplug all of your peering connections with a given provider, BGP by nature will find another route, Cogent is simply surpressing that by the sounds of it, likely as a result of insufficient capacity over other routes. Cogent can easily route around this to get to Level3, either by other peering agreements, or any paid transit agreements, but chooses not to, because they want to cause an upset and try to make Level3 look bad for deciding not to continue doing business with them.
I applaud Level3, and Cogent customers, you get what you pay for. I recall Cogent playing the same tactic (sucessfully) on Teleglobe when they de-peered them. The advertising that Cogent extracted from that fiasco was revolting (getting lists of Teleglobe customers and soliciting the hell out of 'em). If only the other major providers would follow suit, some of the woes this industry now faces (with unsustainable prices in a variety of settings) may begin to pass.Myles Loosley-Millman - admin@prioritycolo.com
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10-05-2005, 01:29 PM #8Eternal Member
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Any host single homed on Cogent wont be seeing Level3 routes. Any BGP speaking host simply will not receive routes VIA Cogent for Level3, hence BGP will naturally not have Cogent as a possible route for them to get to Level3 (but they'll still get there by other available routes).MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
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10-05-2005, 02:12 PM #9Junior Guru
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Cogent and Level 3
This is handy.
http://status.cogentco.com/
Cogent Network Status/DNS Server Status Description:
Date: 10/05/2005
Level 3 has partitioned its part of the Internet from Cogent's part of the Internet by denying Level 3's
customers access to Cogent's customers and denying Cogent's customers access to Level 3 customers. Level 3
terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent)
even though both Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously existing interconnection
agreement.
Many Level 3 customers can still exchange traffic with Cogent customers because the Level 3 customer is multi-
homed, i.e. it also has a connection to Cogent or to one of the many other networks with which Cogent has a
peering relationship. As described below Cogent is offering a solution to Level 3 customers that are not multi-homed.
Cogent will offer any Level 3 customer, who is single homed to the Level 3 network as of October 5, 2005,
one year of full Internet transit free of charge at the same bandwidth currently being supplied by Level 3.
Cogent will provide this connectivity in over 1,000 locations throughout North America and Europe.
Cogent is committed to an open Internet. The existing interconnection facilities between Level 3 and Cogent
remain intact. Cogent hopes that Level 3 will reactivate these connections, restoring a full level of service
to their customers.
For more information on Cogent's offer of free Internet transit, please call:
NORTH AMERICA: 1-877-875-4432
EUROPE: +33 (0)1 49 03 19 300
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10-05-2005, 02:13 PM #10Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally posted by porcupine
I applaud Level3, and Cogent customers, you get what you pay for. I recall Cogent playing the same tactic (sucessfully) on Teleglobe when they de-peered them. The advertising that Cogent extracted from that fiasco was revolting (getting lists of Teleglobe customers and soliciting the hell out of 'em). If only the other major providers would follow suit, some of the woes this industry now faces (with unsustainable prices in a variety of settings) may begin to pass.
http://status.cogentco.com/0
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10-05-2005, 02:19 PM #11Junior Guru
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It will be very interesting to see this unfold and it's effects down the line.
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10-05-2005, 02:30 PM #12Junior Guru Wannabe
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Have you read this one yet?
status.cogentco.com0
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10-05-2005, 02:31 PM #13Retired Moderator
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From http://status.cogentco.com/
Cogent will offer any Level 3 customer, who is single homed to the Level 3 network as of October 5, 2005, one year of full Internet transit free of charge at the same bandwidth currently being supplied by Level 3.0
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10-05-2005, 02:33 PM #14Aspiring Evangelist
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And the plot thickens (or sickens..depending on how you look at it)
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10-05-2005, 02:39 PM #15Web Hosting Guru
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everyone hating on cogent. weakness.
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10-05-2005, 02:42 PM #16Aspiring Evangelist
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Yea Ive been reading the little drama on NANOG most the morning. However for single homed level3 guys, they just doubled there bandwidth for free. Since cogent is going to give them free transit if they ask for it.
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10-05-2005, 02:48 PM #17WHT Addict
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Originally posted by ldcdc
From http://status.cogentco.com/
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10-05-2005, 02:48 PM #18Aspiring Evangelist
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For the full text from Cogent:
Cogent Network Status/DNS Server Status Description:
Date: 10/05/2005
Level 3 has partitioned its part of the Internet from Cogent's part of the Internet by denying Level 3's
customers access to Cogent's customers and denying Cogent's customers access to Level 3 customers. Level 3
terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent)
even though both Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously existing interconnection
agreement.
Many Level 3 customers can still exchange traffic with Cogent customers because the Level 3 customer is multi-
homed, i.e. it also has a connection to Cogent or to one of the many other networks with which Cogent has a
peering relationship. As described below Cogent is offering a solution to Level 3 customers that are not multi-homed.
Cogent will offer any Level 3 customer, who is single homed to the Level 3 network as of October 5, 2005,
one year of full Internet transit free of charge at the same bandwidth currently being supplied by Level 3.
Cogent will provide this connectivity in over 1,000 locations throughout North America and Europe.
Cogent is committed to an open Internet. The existing interconnection facilities between Level 3 and Cogent
remain intact. Cogent hopes that Level 3 will reactivate these connections, restoring a full level of service
to their customers.
For more information on Cogent's offer of free Internet transit, please call:
NORTH AMERICA: 1-877-875-4432
EUROPE: +33 (0)1 49 03 19 300
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10-05-2005, 02:56 PM #19Registered User
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Now it would be nice to see L3 offer the same :-)
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10-05-2005, 03:00 PM #20Away
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Wonder how people are likeing those alphrared/servermatrix unmetered servers now.
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10-05-2005, 03:03 PM #21Account Suspended
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Interesting sales strategy on Cogents part -- offering free pipes to customers single homed to Level3. Get onto the customers network, and if the customer keeps the existing Level3 connection and does BGP between both Cogent and L3, the majority of traffic will still go to Level3. Relatively cheap damage control for Cogent.
However, the negative news continues for Cogent.0
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10-05-2005, 03:10 PM #22THE Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by BigGorilla
For the full text from Cogent:
This is why you don't single-home with anyone.Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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10-05-2005, 03:32 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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They are not telling people to switch. They are offering to double up the connectivity from what I am understanding.
Basically all those that are single homed on Level3 can suddenly become multi-homed with double the bandwidth for 1 year for free on Level3 + Cogent.
When you think about it if they own there own ASN that's a pretty good offer.0
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10-05-2005, 03:36 PM #24WHT Addict
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About time .
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10-05-2005, 03:37 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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Is there something else I was supposed to read there? Level3 has terminated their Cogent peering, as is their right under contract (as Cogent clearly states), thats nothing special, nor unusual; The only unusual thing about this is the fact that Cogent has chosen not to allow BGP to re-route their traffic elsewhere (as they've done before in an attempt to put pressure on Level 3 to reconsider their decision to cut their peering).
That would be the same as Rogers terminating their peering relationship with us, and then we start specifically ignoring routes to Rogers over our other available routes (eg. our transit providers: Teleglobe, NAC, T-Systems, and Peer1), in a pathetic attempt to strongarm Rogers into resuming the peering session (when we have 4 other distinct routes available in this case, any of which would be normally used to route this traffic).
I'm no fan of Cogent and I dont think thats a mystery (you get what you pay for), and they've been continuing an unhealthy trend in this market. I hope others follow suit and say "why should we openly peer with what a tier 2 provider (last I heard they weren't completely settlement free) whose actively soliciting our customers, and growing in market share, with the help of our resources? To a point, this is counter-productive when looking at the big picture."Myles Loosley-Millman - admin@prioritycolo.com
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Two Canadian facilities serving Toronto & Markham, Ontario
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