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  1. #1

    Urgent: Legal Help Needed.

    I've figured that WHT isn't exactly the place for legal advice, but it's always nice to have a few opinions. =)

    Anyways, I've recieved a complaint about one of my clients from some other company.

    They've sent me two emails so far; the first one being this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizet Abuse Department < [email
    abuse@wizet.com[/email] >]Dear Kijit,

    There is a website, <<<Your_Domain>>>, that distributes and even SELLS hacks for our game, maplestory. The game client is available for download at <<<Your_Domain>>> This website violates your terms of service and is quite conspicuos for the evidence is on the website. Please remove or suspend this website pernamently.

    We are only doing this to secure our servers and protect our player\'s fun. Please understand.

    Sewanyun
    Wizet Abuse Department
    We've emailed back, saying we'll look into this as soon as possible and notify them of our actions but our email was bounced. I've done so with other probable emails on their domain (admin@wizet.com, support@wizet.com) but they're all being bounced. They provide no form of phone/IM/alternate communication.

    A day later or so, I recieve this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizet Abuse Department < [email
    abuse@wizet.com[/email] >]Dear kijit,

    Earlier, we have sent you an email message regarding <<<Your_Domain>>>. We asked for <<<Your_Domain>>> to be removed, but the website has not been removed.

    Legal action will be conducted if this website is not removed within 48 hours. This website is a threat to our community with its high amounts of hacks, discussions about hacks, and illegal access to our game servers. We have much evidence to go on with our case and our attorneys have been consulted with. LEGAL ACTION WILL TAKE PLACE. THIS IS A CEASE AND DESIST LETTER.

    I hope you understand our actions.

    Sewanyun
    Wizet Abuse Department
    It doesn't look like a valid C/D letter, and doesn't look like it can hold up in court.

    I'm wondering if I should ignore the time period or not.

    The client has been an outstanding one for 7 months, and hasn't shown us any problems yet. I'm not exactly sure if I should suspend him for the time being, or what?

    I'm not sure what I should be doing now, but I've looked around for some more of their emails on their sites, and emailed my response.

    I'll be contacting my attorney probably tonight or so, but I just want some opinions here if possible.

    Thanks alot!
    Last edited by SoftWareRevue; 09-03-2005 at 09:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    50
    If you believe they have enough evidence to hold up there case, I would atleast have an Attorney ready incase of any legal dispute. Likely, nothing will happen, but I would think they would be talking with the owner of the site and only ask for your cooperation. I would also try and ask to speak with there attorney and discuss the issues and go from there.

    Zachary

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    3,119
    Kijit,

    I also would consult with an attorney and get their opinion.

    Also, you may want to do a search for this company that is supposedly sending you these letters - perhaps it is just a scam.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
    Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
    Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    5,178
    Unless the headers were forged the company and product are quite real. They are based in Korea and from appearances that is where the product is primarily sold and used. Their main HQ might not be familiar with how a C&D is supposed to work in the United States.
    If you have to operate your company behind the scenes or under a fake name, maybe it's time to leave the industry and start something fresh.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by CTG
    Unless the headers were forged the company and product are quite real. They are based in Korea and from appearances that is where the product is primarily sold and used. Their main HQ might not be familiar with how a C&D is supposed to work in the United States.
    Hmm, I checked the headers, they don't look exactly legit:

    Return-path: <nobody@yellow.indushost.com>
    Envelope-to: support@Kijit.com
    Delivery-date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:32:20 -0400
    Received: from [72.36.150.18] (helo=yellow.indushost.com)
    by server.kijit.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
    (Exim 4.50)
    id 1EBegS-0002ku-0r
    for support@Kijit.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:32:20 -0400
    Received: from nobody by yellow.indushost.com with local (Exim 4.52)
    id 1EBegN-0000O2-BT
    for support@Kijit.com; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 01:32:11 +0500
    To: support@Kijit.com
    Subject: Re: MapleHacks.com\'s immediate removal
    From: "Wizet Abuse Department" <abuse@wizet.com>
    Reply-To: abuse@wizet.com
    X-Mailer: Blockstatus.com Anonymous Mailer [Sender IP = 212.0.138.90]
    Content-Type: text/plain
    Message-Id: <E1EBegN-0000O2-BT@yellow.indushost.com>
    Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 01:32:11 +0500
    X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
    X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - yellow.indushost.com
    X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - kijit.com
    X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [99 99] / [47 12]
    X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - yellow.indushost.com
    X-Source:
    X-Source-Args:
    X-Source-Dir:
    It's coming from indushost.com - which is some cPanel-based server.

    And thank you for your responses!

  6. #6
    If they are correct and there are illegal hacks on a site you are hosting, why would you even waste the time to consider the legality of their notification?

  7. #7
    You have a condition in your terms and conditions:

    Security

    Criminal and civil liability may result if system or network security is violated. Incidents involving such violations will be investigated and Kijit will cooperate with law enforcement if a crime is suspected.

    (d). Hacking - breaking the security on another’s computer network or accessing another’s account. Such acts would include, but not be limited to, unauthorized access to, or use of, data, systems or networks, including any attempt to probe, scan, or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without the ownSr’s express approval;

    ..........................................................................................................

    What you are saying here is that if your client is found to be unlawful you will take action.

    So all that can happen to you is that you are told by the courts that your client is acting illegally, and order you to remove the offensive site.

    Well that's how I read it.

    If the offended site does continue with legal proceedings, I suggest at that stage you suspend your client until the matter is sorted, but that is for you to decide.

    It's best you get some legal advice though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    3,119
    EDIT: Ok, I misunderstood something posted above.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
    Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
    Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Mark_TVI
    If they are correct and there are illegal hacks on a site you are hosting, why would you even waste the time to consider the legality of their notification?
    Well, we don't want to just suspend our client without a full scale investigation of their account/files/etc.

    They've been outstanding as a client, and I'd hate to have to shut them down personally.

    Should we actually find evidence of hacking on their site, we'd shut it down of course.

    So far, we've only found mere discussion on the actual hacks, but no physical hacks hosted on our servers.

    You'd have to understand - if you saw your site suspended without a full investigation or prior contact, you'd get mad at your host.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    325
    I see you removed the site. If this game is in fact an online game that is on Wizet's servers ( I am not familiar with it), would it not fall under this section of your TOS?

    (a). Violate, intentionally or unintentionally, any applicable local, state, national or international law, or any rules or regulations promulgated thereunder. Prohibited activities include, but are not limited to: transmitting obscene materials; intentionally spreading computer viruses; gaining unauthorized access to private networks; engaging in the transmission of pirated software; conducting or participating in illegal gambling, or soliciting for illegal pyramid schemes through electronic mail or postings.

  11. #11
    Well, in our investigation, we're done searching through all the physical files, and we've found no instance of any type of "hacks" as mentioned. We'll probably be checking if they store them in databases.

    It would not fall into that section or any on our ToS. There has been no evidence that would prove "going unauthorized access to private networks" found.

    I've already stated this earlier - just suspending them without fully understanding the nature of the complaint/problem doesn't seem ethical to me or our company.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    3,119
    I've already stated this earlier - just suspending them without fully understanding the nature of the complaint/problem doesn't seem ethical to me or our company.
    I agree with you there - this just doesn't seem right to me either.
    Daniel B., CEO - Bezoka.com and Ungigs.com
    Hosting Solutions Optimized for: WordPress • Joomla • OpenCart • Moodle
    Data Centers in: Chicago (US), London (UK), Sydney (AU), Sofia (BG), Pori (FI)
    Email Daniel directly: ceo [at] bezoka.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    325
    Come Tuesday, I would call your lawyer and take copies of the emails with you so your lawyer can investigate. Unless of course you are not in the US and then you can go on Monday

  14. #14
    Thanks for the advice everyone!

    I'll probably be going down tommorow afternoon and checking with him. Our company operates in Canada, and our attorney's been a long time friend of mine.

    I've already got everything prepared for him, technical logs, headers, actual messages, etc.

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