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Thread: VPSHive by Gigenet has Launched
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01-24-2010, 11:11 AM #26Retired Moderator
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ServInt (http://www.servint.net/vps.php):
Essential VPS
30 GB Disk Space (vs 20GB)
1 TB Monthly Transfer (vs 200GB)
768 MB Guaranteed (1.5 GB Burst RAM) (Vs 512mb)
CentOS 5 Operating System
4 IP Addresses (Vs 1)
Unlimited Domains and User Accounts
FREE Virtuozzo Power Panel
FREE nightly backups
FREE cPanel, Plesk, or Parallels Small Business Panel Available (add $15 for cPanel at VPSHive)
No set-up fee
$49 monthly (vs $45, or $64 after you add cPanel + more than 1 IP)
GigeNet / VPSHive are pretty late to the VPS party. There are plenty of established non-budget VPS providers out there who have proved over a number of years that they offer a very stable, sustainable and good value service.
I know what I'm going to get with ServInt - everything you said is something I know I'd get from ServInt. If I'm going to take a risk on a new provider, then the numbers have got to stack up. There has to be an incentive for me to drop (or in this case, not return to) a provider I'm familiar with and would be very happy with, for one that I've never had any experience with. Especially when they want me to pay more money for less.
Maybe that's because the VPSHive control panel is the best thing since sliced bread, and that as it doesn't matter to me I'm not their target customer. But still, numbers are very important - especially if someone knows they can get the level of service they need at a better price.Alasdair
Long time ex-host, ex-billing software owner/developer/support staff. Recent lurker.
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01-24-2010, 11:47 AM #27Retired Moderator
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Awesome summary of your position Alasdair
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01-24-2010, 12:42 PM #28[ VPS Enthusiast ]
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Just wanted to give a quick opinion/review of their services as we've seen it.
We got accepted as a beta participant on 28th November 2009, so have had a good time period over which to review their service.
During this time period, obviously they were working on upgrading/tweaking/finalizing everything. Our experience with them however was very good, uptime was solid (and they warned you in advance if they were taking VPS offline etc.) and the VPS templates were well put together.
The control panel they put together is very well designed, you get console access to VPS (Linux) and remote desktop (Windows) via the control panel interface, can set rDNS, reboot, start, add new VPS, and so on - all in one easy to use interface.
Honestly, I see no reason why they should not be successful upon the official launch of the service tomorrow.
Having said all that:
- Would we recommend using them anyone looking for a cloud provider: Yes, they seem to have a solid infustructure, the service seems to be well thought out, and they're backed by a well known reliable provider.
- Will we be using them? No, simply because we have no real need for cloud hosting right now and are happy with the VPS that we currently have.
And $800/month for 16GB RAM, 640GB storage and 2TB bandwidth? We could simply rent 10 dedicated servers across multiple locations with better specifications (Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2x1TB HDD, 3TB Bandwidth/server) for less and cluster them ourselves.Last edited by BTCentral - Ben; 01-24-2010 at 12:45 PM.
█ Ben Thomas, Director - BTCentral Web Development Services
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01-24-2010, 12:56 PM #29Web Hosting Master
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same price for windows , linux?
- Choice of operating systems Windows And Linux
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01-24-2010, 01:01 PM #30[ VPS Enthusiast ]
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█ Ben Thomas, Director - BTCentral Web Development Services
█ http://www.btcentral.org.uk - Need a custom Web App? Visit us online.
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01-24-2010, 01:09 PM #31Web Hosting Master
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Ok, I see.
I did check out their web site, but missed
Windows Server 2003 Web or Standard Edition is $20.00/month.(at the very end of the windows order page), I thought windows was free.
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01-24-2010, 01:25 PM #32WHT Addict
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We have been beta testing this product for the past few months now, and are very happy with the results. Panel is quick and effective, orders are processed fast and clean. Hardware and network are extremely quick and responsive. Great job to the guys over there for listening to the beta testers and building the product around what the people here are looking for.
Adam Piatek - CTO Ritmo Technology Group
Dedicated Servers, Web Hosting Solutions Ventrilo Servers
adam (at) ritmohost (dot) com
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01-24-2010, 04:07 PM #33Location = SoapBox
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Well, to be fair, you are not comparing apples to apples..
Being "late" to the "VPS party"?
VPSHive is not the same product as a standard VPS offering. Forget the fact the ServINT is running software level virtuozzo virtualization (which is debatable at best to be equivalent to solutions like XEN or VMWare) - but, putting that aside for a minute.. these local host node VM solutions lack elasticity and certainly lack hardware level redundancy and fluidity..
these are not the same solutions, not even close..
the more accurate statement would be that legacy VPS solutions are behind in the VPS party - heck, they arent even playing in the same game..
I know what I'm going to get with ServInt - everything you said is something I know I'd get from ServInt. If I'm going to take a risk on a new provider, then the numbers have got to stack up. There has to be an incentive for me to drop (or in this case, not return to) a provider I'm familiar with and would be very happy with, for one that I've never had any experience with. Especially when they want me to pay more money for less.
Maybe that's because the VPSHive control panel is the best thing since sliced bread, and that as it doesn't matter to me I'm not their target customer. But still, numbers are very important - especially if someone knows they can get the level of service they need at a better price.
I understand peoples concern on price.. but, at the very least, people should understand what it is they are comparing price to.. and comparing a solution like this to legacy single server VPS technology is not appropriate - we are not even close to speaking apples to apples..
Now, whether or not this VPShive offering will end up actually delivering value, I am honestly not sure.. I guess we will not know this for quite some time.. but, their pricing is certainly not out of line with what they are offering.. the costs to run and maintain such a solution are significantly greater then loading up virtuozzo on a beefy single host node and ramming accounts onto it..
I hate coming to the defense of a direct competitor, I really do - but, honestly, people are not being overly reasonable here..www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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01-24-2010, 04:16 PM #34Web Hosting Master
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I kept saying the same thing about not comparing apples to apples but didn't get around to posting yet. So I 100% agree. I wouldn't say though it's a superior product though due to it's nature of being a cloud like product as companies like Servint have mastered VPS's so in a few years maybe VPShive can be in the same group of reputable VPS providers. Gigenet is a different story as new ventures don't always reflect the same as the parent company. Personally speaking on the lower end VPS's with the cloud like approach (1 dedicated CPU approach for example) a Virtuozzo VPS will outperform it if your with the right host. Being limited to 1 CPU will not perform as well as a Virtuozzo VPS where Equal Share is configured properly. Sure as you pay more (higher end VPS's with the cloud approach) things may differ but at that point the prices aren't all that similar.
Last edited by KnownHost; 01-24-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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01-24-2010, 04:35 PM #35Location = SoapBox
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Nice comments Knownhost...
However, just to be fair, the alternate perspective would be as follows..
- I really have not seen any recent data that would validate virtuozzo would perform better vs something like Xen, all things being equal.
- Your comment however on the "right" provider is valid and I could see situations where a user on a shared CPU and RAM model would have more resources available to them, and for less money - as in a Xen server for example, you are locked and committed to resources (ie 1 CPU, 2 GB RAM) - and in certain situations, Virtuozzo types of models will allow customers to burst above their allocations - however, in these situations, users are bound and at the mercy of their provider to handle their allocations properly - and even then, the unforseen may happen and several customers sharing the resources may simultaneously and unexpectedly burst, thus leaving users with less resources ultimately. The flip side of your comments is that with guaranteed resources, you know exactly what you have, and you can buy more whenever you want. Additionally, if you are not in a real cloud environment, and if the node you happen to be on does not have enough resources available when you need to upgrade, what then? with a cloud solution, you will seamlessly get allocated to a node which has the available resources you are trying to purchase
- with a local host model, what happens when the node you are hosting on goes down? raid failure? CPU or ram failure, or even power failure? a properly built cloud would be able to accommodate such scenarios without an outage, as instances would just be brought up on different host nodes. Even power failures at the DC level can be accommodated as, if built properly, providers will build out with A+B feeds, so that even if 1 power feed in a data center is affected, nodes can be brought up on alternate nodes on alternate power feeds...
- Lastly, I do not agree with the fear approach. ie local vm host nodes are proven and the cloud approach is new therefore high risk.. we have been hosting customers on our cloud for quite awhile (have not released publicly yet) - and there are zero disadvantages over the local host model we have been publicly selling for quite some time. Fact is, local host node model presents all sorts of challenges that are absolved in the cloud model and the benefits should not be negated.. however, there is an additional cost to the consumer and the provide to address these challenges.. the truth of the matter though is, many customers do not require those advantages and certainly do not want or need to pay the premium for those advangates. If they have a node fail and are down for 15 mins here or there or a few hours every now and then to restore data - its not a big deal compared to the money they are saving.. but, to the customers that simply cannot afford to have a component fail take a site down, or who need to know that 8 cores and 16GB of ram will be available, seamlessly, no matter what, when needed - the additional costs are well worth it..
Anyway, sorry for the long winded reply.. on the whole, I agree with your comments.. I just think we all need to do a better job of explaining to consumers what they are buying and what the respective benefits are of each solution - and why some solutions are priced differently, etc..www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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01-24-2010, 04:44 PM #36Web Hosting Master
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I applied for their beta program. Never did get a reply. Guess they didn't want to do business with me. Now, the feeling is mutual
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01-24-2010, 05:19 PM #37Web Hosting Master
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Since this seems to be so much about Cloud Hosting why is this thread in the VPS Hosting forum? That's another problem. It should be in the "Speciality Hosting" section. Cloud hosting isn't replacing VPS Hosting. If anything Dedicated Hosting will suffer as that's where Cloud Hosting's advantages come into play. Most VPS customers aren't thinking of 8 cores, 16 GB's. To educate the community these topics should be in the appropriate section on WHT. My opinion but seems quite logical.
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01-24-2010, 05:25 PM #38Location = SoapBox
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Actually, I think you are bang on with your comments... Clouds should not be confused with VPS solutions and vice versa.. there is a certain commonality granted, and I think that is where the confusion comes in.. but, you are absolutely correct, this should probably be in the cloud hosting forum and much of this could probably be avoided..
Cheers for now...www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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01-24-2010, 05:32 PM #39Retired Moderator
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Without getting into the ins and outs, if VPSHive is cloud hosting rather than a VPS why on earth is it called VPSHive? Surely the confusion is not based on the forum choice here at WHT, but on the marketing of the product by GigeNet?
If there are many technological advantages of the VPSHive offering compared to a standard VPS, then VPSHive need to make them a bit clearer. Reading their features list it simply looks like a slightly more advanced Xen based setup, where the packages aren't fixed and you can customise the space/bandwidth/ram to suit your specific needs.
It doesn't appear to be a true cloud based setup that I could get from the 3Tera solution through LayeredTech or indeed Amazon?Alasdair
Long time ex-host, ex-billing software owner/developer/support staff. Recent lurker.
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01-24-2010, 05:37 PM #40Web Hosting Master
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01-24-2010, 05:43 PM #41Web Hosting Evangelist
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01-24-2010, 05:46 PM #42Web Hosting Master
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There already is one. http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=156
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01-24-2010, 05:46 PM #43Junior Guru Wannabe
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OK now I'm confused. So why a company named VPShive who offers VPS solution doesn't belong to this forum? Also there are other posts about VPShive in this forum before and representative from VPShive also joined the discussion (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=907244).
So again, I'm confused.
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01-24-2010, 05:50 PM #44Web Hosting Evangelist
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01-24-2010, 05:53 PM #45Web Hosting Master
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I guess the same can be said about http://openegg.com/ They don't sell opened eggs? haha
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01-24-2010, 05:55 PM #46VPS Like a Boss!
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01-24-2010, 06:10 PM #47Web Hosting Evangelist
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01-24-2010, 06:31 PM #48Junior Guru Wannabe
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I don't think openegg writes "Choose you opened egg" on their front page.
The page title of VPSHive is "VPS Hosting - Virtual Private Server Hosting", and on the front page it clearly says "Choose your VPS Plan". They may use some sort of kind of new technology, at least what they are offering is still VPS.
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01-24-2010, 07:47 PM #49Location = SoapBox
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well yes, a cloud is essentially a VPS. the issue however, is that there are different types of VPS solutions. vps.net for example sells VPS solutions, but, it is in a cloud formation.. the differentiators are typically related to hardware redundancy, fluidity in that containers can be seamlessly moved to different physical nodes if more resources are required or in case of hardware failure, allows customers to seamlessly and in real time add hard resources (ie cpu, ram, etc) - and typically, though VPShive does not see to take this approach, requires some form of utility based billing..
Having a VPS server without a backend storage system (ie with local host storage) is a completely different solution then having VMs spread over a fleet of servers with some sort of backend infrastructure managing the storage requirements and accommodating seamless and fluid and elastic movement and growth of instances..
the real questions to ask about such solutions is what is powering the backend storage, how redundant is it, how scalable is it, etc.. can a provider add spindles or throughput, etc ondemand, what sort of total throughput do they have from the hostnodes to the storage systems, how have they configured their cloud network, can they accommodate multiple paths from all nodes to all storage data, how large can they scale a specific VM, can the provider accommodate load balancing within the cloud in order to accommodate more massive bursts or requirements then a single cloud node can accommodate, how redundant is that back end SAN (ie it prone to a single point of failure or not, etc)..
Lastly - and most important from a "flashy" perspective, but, least important from a technology perspective - can the provider accommodate templating and snapshots? how about graphing and real live metrics of CPU, RAM, IO, etc metrics?
the list goes on and on - and consumers can expect a wide array of pricing within this market, just as with any other hosting service.. there is a price for everything and considering how new this stuff is, there is still a lot of development time and money to go into control panels, systems, etc to receive a completely refined solution. The most important thing with these offerings right now is the actual capabilities.. as time goes on, more and more providers will automate more and more of this functionality - but, the advantages this technology offers right now is leaps and bounds ahead of the traditional hosting model - and the cost increase is really pretty marginal.. and when you consider the cost of outages, or inability to scale when really needed, etc - your TCO for a cloud environment will be quite favourable overtime... especially for customers where service = income...www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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01-24-2010, 07:59 PM #50Web Hosting Master
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Agreed. In time there will be a platform (out of the box) which will do all of the things mentioned above as well. Currently it's only really being done by companies with lots of and/or talented inhouse developers but as with anything it will become something more and more offer. It's just a matter of time. Of course this is my opinion.
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