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  1. #26

    Ah...

    DesElms,

    Thank you.

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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    16
    This is the last email dave had send me:

    [e-mail]
    Dear Valued Customers, Over the next month we will be in the process of upgrading our billing system. As some of you may know, we have been using ModernBill (www.modernbill.com) for our billing, however due to several unforseen bugs in the software -- many billing errors have resulted. Including double-billing (we are working to correct all cases of this), multiple invoice generation, continued billing after cancellation, etc. If you are currently using ModernBill or have plans to for your hosting serice we HIGHLY recommend looking elsewhere for your billing solution. We plan to revert to our own system which will resolve many of the billing issues we've been experiencing. We also have several plans for additional services and features that will make managing your customers accounts more convenient, such as; integrating the ResellerPanel into the control panel, domain name management, account upgrades, and more. Thank you for your patience, we are sure you will like what you see in the upcoming months. - Cedura Staff
    [/e-mail]

    Gosh, how stupid can you be Dave???? I should have been removed from your system a long time ago.
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  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    16
    Tanks DESELMS
    Last edited by vsomored; 04-17-2002 at 06:12 AM.
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    154
    Wow. Gregg, that has to be the most informative post (okay, two posts ) I have EVER read at this forum. Bravo.
    My answer to the most commonly asked question on WHT:
    Hosting Matters http://www.hostmatters.com
    FutureQuest http://www.futurequest.net
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  5. #30

    Cedura / ModernBill

    I really didn't want to post anything about this, but I guess I have to now.

    vsomored,

    What are you referring to?


    As for the email you received from Dave Lavers about ModernBill:

    1. Cedura has made no attempt to contact us to help him with his billing issue.. EVER!

    2. Mr. Lavers and his staff have made no attempt to use any of our support mechanisms to support his license of ModernBill.

    3. We were also sent this same email and immediatly contacted them to help them with their issue. They final aswered numerous phone calls and emails, but still to this day have not used our support we offer.

    Conclusion:
    They may have some billing issues, but you might need to look beyond any software to understand the problem.

    vsomored,
    if you have any questions about ModernBill, please contact us at admin@modernbill.com.
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    To those who thanked me... you're welcome!

    I'm sorry I made everyone wade through such a long post (or, more accurately, posts, plural). But I wanted to get everyone up-to-speed on the Lavers once and for all. With every new message that I read in this thread I kept waiting for someone to come forth with the facts about them; to make sure that everyone knew that these are not simply guys running a hosting company and just doing it badly. They're bona fide crooks! "Doesn't anyone realize this?" I kept saying to myself.

    It was a feeling very similar to the one I had in 1989 when I was watching CBS News coverage of the Loma Prieta earthquake in the Bay area. I was living in Chicago at the time, but I was very familiar with the highways in the East Bay. It was early in the catastrophe as I watched in disbelief while CBS News anchor Dan Rather commented on the views from the helicopter of the elevated Cypress Street span of I-880. He kept talking about how lucky it was that, from the air, it appeared no one was injured on the obviously-damaged freeway segment. "Obviously damaged!" I exclaimed aloud, incredulously. I could tell that Rather didn't realize he was looking at a double-decker style highway where the upper level had collapsed on top of the lower level, probably crushing hundreds of cars beneath. I remember the frustration of knowing something that the folks I was watching and listening to obviously didn't yet know.

    The feeling as I read this thread was similar. So I chimed-in, as I have done in other places, and for which the Lavers have always, in their juvenile way, tried to punish me somehow. But, never with the impact upon me for which they had hoped. Not even once.

    By the way... is it my imagination, or is there suddenly a deafening silence from "cannon71"? No comment, Michael? Cat got your tongue?

    As with all con artists, the Lavers' true impotence and smallness becomes painfully apparent to everyone once the shroud has been pulled away and their anti-social behavior has been exposed to the light of day. It's sort of how a cat looks after it's been thrown into a swimming pool -- all skinny and trembling and wet as it skulks away with its tail between its legs and a combined look of humilation and anger on its normally aloof face.

    The Lavers are consummate blowhards -- puffing their chests and threatening to sic their lawyers on those who challenge them as I have. I'd actually welcome the opportunity to chat with their lawyers. Trouble is, they don't have any. They appeared in court at the hearing on the State of Washington case (mentioned in my earlier post) unrepresented -- the elder Lavers trying to defend himself, his corporation and his son (the last two of which the court would not let him do because he isn't an attorney). A man who has a "team of lawyers" behind him, as Lavers once threatened to me that he had, does not show-up in court on a case as big as that one without counsel. The guy clearly has delusions of omnipotence -- as is not uncommon with arrogant, pathological types like David Lavers.

    But the judge would have no part of it -- or the Lavers' shenanigans, generally. The Court ordered the asked-for $2,000 fine for each of the seventy-something counts of violating the state's Consumer Protection Act. That, plus the other fines and costs the Court assessed, came to nearly $400,000 -- not a penny of which has been paid...

    ...yet. (Stay tuned!)

    If there were ever a guy who needed to be taken off the street, it's David Lavers. And if there were ever two kids who needed therapy, it's his sons Michael and Andrew. Well... I guess at least Michael isn't really a kid any more. He's a young man of 20 now -- with adult responsibilities to society that I have hope upon hope he will realize and honor. But he's a chip off his ol' man's block. So it remains to be seen what kind of burden on society he ends-up being. Deceit is a way of life for him now. I feel sorry for the kid, actually -- and for his younger brother Andrew as much or more, perhaps.

    Too bad trashing your kid's value system isn't a felony. David Lavers would be sentenced to life.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: The domain names resellermatrix.com and matrixreseller.com should not be confused. It is the former, and not the latter, which is the subject of this thread.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-23-2002 at 12:08 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis USA
    Posts
    49
    Hi Gregg,

    I have some experience around due diligence and research groups, and I must say that's an outstanding piece of work. Very well done.
    Mike.

    Atlantic Bridge Publishing
    http://www.atlanticbridge.net/
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  8. #33
    It looks like Lavers, Inc. is at it again. They seem to be the folks at openhsp.com. See http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread...hreadid=45660.

    If you go to openhsp.com, it redirects to 66.122.87.36, which if you do a lookup on, is owned by none other than:

    MICHAEL LAVERS (NETBLK-SBC066122087032020404)
    268 Bush St
    San Francisco, Ca 94104
    US

    Netname: SBC066122087032020404
    Netblock: 66.122.87.32 - 66.122.87.39

    Coordinator:
    Pacific Bell Internet (PIA2-ORG-ARIN) ip-admin@PBI.NET
    888-212-5411

    Record last updated on 05-Apr-2002.
    Database last updated on 18-Apr-2002 20:11:05 EDT.
    Anna
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  9. #34

    Re: To those who thanked me... you're welcome!

    Hehe, that's pretty funny...not sure how Dan Rather and an Earthquake from 1989 has to do with it but I guess they were customers of Lavers at that time.

    $400,000 is a lot of bread, too bad it's unlikely that he/they will pay up. Odds are he/they will open up shop and continue on with another type of scam.

    Oh I get it, Lavers caused that Earthquake is what you're saying, right?
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Another fine product of the Lavers Family

    Originally posted by anna
    It looks like Lavers, Inc. is at it again. They seem to be the folks at openhsp.com.
    Yes, I'm aware of the connection. OpenHSP also shows-up as using Cedura's name servers in the rs.internic.net record -- which, alone, isn't proof, I realize. But, you're right. It is the Lavers...

    ...again.

    It certainly looks like Burst.net has their number, though...

    http://www.openhsp.net
    http://www.openhsp.org

    Also, check out the WHOIS records of those two domains. Funny.


    Finally, just FYI, everyone...

    I heard another Lavers horror story in a phone conversation today -- a flat-out theft of services that Michael committed against someone in these very forums -- someone we all know, trust and respect. But I need to leave provision of details to him, just in case he has some strategic reason for holding-off on discussing it publicly -- that is, if he ever even decides to discuss it publicly. But take my word for it... it happened. Sadly.

    Hmm. I wonder if the Lavers finally deserve their own "watch out for these guys" web site. Building one is the last thing on earth I have time for, but at what point does my sense of duty to warn others demand it, perhaps? (Just thinking out loud.)

    IMPORTANT NOTE: The domain names resellermatrix.com and matrixreseller.com should not be confused. It is the former, and not the latter, which is the subject of this thread.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-23-2002 at 12:09 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Man, nothin' gets past you!

    Originally posted by MilkMan
    Oh I get it, Lavers caused that Earthquake is what you're saying, right?
    Exactly.

    Gregg L. DesElms
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    9,576
    Originally posted by Mike Feury
    I have some experience around due diligence and research groups, and I must say that's an outstanding piece of work. Very well done.
    I'd have to agree with that. After seeing so many one-liners and unsubstantiated complaints in my time here it was unusual to see such a complete and referenced post considering a companies shady dealings. It even made for interesting reading. Tim Greer (our resident lengthy poster) should be nervous.

    Greg Moore
    Former Webhost... now, just a guy.
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  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    63
    So is this the guy who had ResellerMatrix and MatrixCubed as well? Name sounds really familiar.
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  14. #39

    Eternaly grateful

    Eternaly grateful to you, deselms for your wonderful post.

    The entire world needs to be notified of this thread!

    Thank you and best wishes!
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Getting caught-up

    Originally posted by Groundhog
    So is this the guy who had ResellerMatrix and MatrixCubed as well? Name sounds really familiar.
    You did read the rest of this thread...

    ...right?


    Yes. David Lavers (father), Michael Lavers (older son), and Andrew Lavers (younger son).

    Cascadian Systems, HostingMatrix, Lavers and Lavers, MatrixCubed, ResellerMatrix, Cedura Networks, OpenHSP.

    Synonymity.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: The domain names resellermatrix.com and matrixreseller.com should not be confused. It is the former, and not the latter, which is the subject of this thread.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-23-2002 at 12:10 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    FYI... to those interested...

    Today I have sent the following message to the appropriate email addresses:

    TO: BBB of San Francisco, Oakland & No Coastal Calif
    TO: BBB of Northern Nevada
    TO: BBB of Oregon and Western Washington
    TO: Pacific Bell Internet
    TO: SBC/Nevada Bell Internet
    TO: BulkRegister.com
    TO: Verisign, Inc.
    TO: California Attorney General's Office
    TO: Nevada Attorney General's Office

    CC: Washington (state) Attorney General's Office

    RE: Urgent SCAM/FRAUD warning and information


    This message is regarding the following individuals:

    - David Lavers (father, age 50)
    - Michael Lavers (older son, age 20)
    - Andrew Lavers (younger son, age 17)

    all doing business, variously, as:

    - Cascadian Systems (Redmond, WA)
    - Lavers and Lavers (Redmond, WA)
    - MatrixCubed (Redmond, WA)
    - HostingMatrix (Redmond, WA)
    - ResellerMatrix (Redmond, WA & Reno, NV)
    - Cedura Networks (Redmond, WA & Reno, NV)
    - OpenHSP (San Francisco and Reno, NV)


    My reason for writing to you today is:

    1. To Make the parties to which this message is addressed aware of recent information regarding the Lavers and their fraudulent operations, and,

    2. To suggest to the Oregon & Western Washington BBB that it update its records accordingly and make same available on its web site, and,

    3. To suggest to the BBB of San Francisco, Oakland & Northern Coastal California that it might be time to place a warning on its web site because of the address in San Francisco that Michael Lavers is using for fraudulent business purposes, and,

    4. To suggest to the BBB of Northern Nevada that it might be time to open a file on the Lavers and their Cedura Networks and OpenHSP operations; and then to post same on its web site, because of the two Reno addresses that Michael is using for fraudulent business purposes, and,

    5. To suggest to Pacific Bell Internet and SBC/Nevada Bell Internet that it seize the IP addresses and the DSL circuits used by the Lavers, on the grounds that said addresses and circuits have been used for fraudulent purposes, and,

    6. To suggest to BulkRegister.com that it seize the domain names used by the Lavers and registered thru BulkRegister because said domains have been used for fraudulent purposes, and,

    7. To suggest to Verisign (formerly Network Solutions) that it seize the domain names used by the Lavers and registered through Verisign, because said domains have been used for fraudulent purposes, and,

    8 To suggest to the California Attorney General's Office that it begin its own investigation of the Lavers and the San Francisco address they are using for business purposes, and that it cooperate with the Washington State Attorney General's Office and its continuing follow-up investigation, and,

    9. To suggest to the Nevada Attorney General's Office that it begin its own investigation of the Lavers and the Reno addresses they are using for business purposes, and that it cooperate with the Washington State Attorney General's Office and its continuing follow-up investigation.


    The BBB of Oregon and Western Washington web site has a partial record of the Lavers and their activities at:

    http://www.thebbb.org/report.html?co...133&national=Y


    The Washington State Attorney General's Office High-tech Unit filed a complaint against the Lavers and has since won a judgement, with fines and costs in amounts approaching $400,000 still being owed by the trio. To contact the investigator for the Washington AG's office, send an email to redacted or call redacted. Or see the AG's web page regarding the matter at:

    http://www.wa.gov/ago/releases/rel_hitech_101800.html


    BACKGROUND SUMMARY

    The Lavers are particularly notorious in the web hosting industry. One of the industry's leading online web public forums (webhostingtalk.com) has numerous postings about them from people who have been ripped-off or hurt in other ways by the Lavers. And other forums and bulletin boards on the web are beginning to get Lavers-related postings telling of horror stories consumers have had with these three nefarious individuals.

    In particular, I refer you to the following discussion thread, entitled "Hosting Nightmare" in the "Reseller" forums at webhostingtalk.com

    In that thread, after my reading numerous posts from people who have been recently hurt by the Lavers, I finally made a rather large posting providing the information I have on the Lavers. I did so as a warning to others. I refer you to this thread not only so you may see an example of the kinds of complaints the Lavers and their enterprises tend to generate, but also so that you may read my aforementioned posting where you may get a history of the Lavers, thereby saving me from having to write it all here, in this email message. Please see the "Hosting Nightmare" thread at:

    URL of this thread

    The Lavers' most recent exploits are CEDURA NETWORKS (cedura.net) and OPENHSP.COM both of which web hosting entities have generated complaints of deceit and fraud in the WebHostingTalk forums and elsewhere.

    Though the Lavers have, in the past, been a Redmond, WA-area operation located at:

    HostingMatrix
    Matrixcubed
    ResellerMatrix
    704 228th Avenue NE #265
    Redmond WA 98053

    they are now using private mailbox addresses in Reno, NV and San Francisco, CA as their official company addresses, to wit:

    Cedura Networks
    8175 South Virginia St.
    Suite 850, PMB 410
    Reno NV 89511


    OpenHSP
    7000 Mae Anne Ave, #2124
    Reno NV 89523

    - and -

    Michael Lavers/OpenHSP
    268 Bush St
    San Francisco CA 94104


    The Lavers use the following domain names registered through the indicated registrars:

    matrixcubed.com (registered via bulkregister.com)
    matrixcubed.net (registered via bulkregister.com)

    hostingmatrix.com (registered via verisign.com)
    hostingmatrix.net (registered via verisign.com)

    resellermatrix.com (registered via bulkregister.com)
    resellermatrix.net (registered via bulkregister.com)

    cedura.com (registered via bulkregister.com)
    cedura.net (registered via bulkregister.com)
    cedura.org (registered via bulkregister.com)

    openhsp.com (registered via bulkregister.com)


    And Michael Lavers has registered the following IP addresses and DSL circuits through SBC/Nevada Bell Internet (nvbell.net) and Pacific Bell Internet (pbi.net):

    ARIN netname: SBC066122087032020404
    IP range: 66.122.87.32 - 66.122.87.39

    adsl-66-122-87-32.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net
    THRU
    adsl-66-122-87-39.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net

    for use with OpenHSP.com web site.

    The Lavers are very harmful to others who make the mistake of doing business with them. And it's not just end-users (web hosting customers) who are harmed. The Lavers also harm companies from whom they purchase services. For example, recently a large hosting company (burst.net) had a reseller who was scammed by the Lavers. And one of the Internet's most well-known and respected redacted companies (redacted.com) was flat-out stolen-from by them.

    After the above-referenced Washington State Attorney General's successful suit, the Lavers seemed to slow down their operations a bit. But their recent Cedura Networks and OpenHSP operations clearly demonstrate that the Lavers are now stepping-up their activites and are, once again, hurting people in droves!

    Michael Lavers recently claimed that his ResellerMatrix operation was "acquired" by Cedura Networks. However, the owner of Cedura Networks turned out to be Michael Lavers, making his "acquisition" claim an obvious ruse.

    Within the last 30 days, after the Lavers read about themselves and their Cedura Networks scam at places like webhostingtalk.com, they shut down that web site and opened an operation called "OpenHSP" (openhsp.com).

    A week or two ago, OpenHSP was hosted on a server owned by burst.net (via one of it's resellers). BurstNet forced the OpenHSP site off its servers after numerous spam and fraud complaints.

    So, last week, Michael Lavers leased a block of IP addresses and DSL circuits from Pacific Bell Internet (pbi.net) via SBC/Nevada Bell Internet (nvbell.net) and he then hosted his OpenHSP site on a server connected to the Internet via said DSL circuits.

    Now, this week, having once again begun to read about themselves and their fraudulent operations in places like webhostingtalk.com, the Lavers took down the OpenHSP site as well (though it still controls the IP addresses and DSL circuits as of this writing).

    The Lavers, I'm quite certain, are plotting their next move even as you are reading this.


    OFFICIAL REQUEST FOR ACTION

    Please treat the Lavers as the purveyors of fraud that they truly are. Please treat this matter with the urgency it deserves.

    I humbly and fervently request:

    1. That the BBB update its records accordingly and display appropriate warnings on their web sites, and,

    2. That the IP addresses and DSL circuits provided to the Lavers by PacBell Internet and SBC/Nevada Bell Internet be seized by those providers and/or terminated, as appropriate, and,

    3. That the domain names utilized by the Lavers to commit fraud be seized by the two registrars thru which they were registered (Bulkregister and Verisign), and,

    4. That the Attorney Generals' Offices of both the states of California and Nevada cooperate with the investigator from the Washington Attorney General's office, and perhaps that California and Nevada launch investigations and prosecutions of its own.

    If you have any questions or need further details or supporting documentation, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Thank you, in advance, for your thoughtful consideration.

    Redactions performed at the request of those who did not wish their personal data disclosed here.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-23-2002 at 12:36 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  17. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    163

    WOW

    thank you,
    thank you for letting me know about them i did run across there site a while back (i think it was the matraxhosting site) as i run a web hosting search site I will be keeping an eye out for them my self and will remove there submitions to my site in due haste.

    please keep us up to date on this i hope this will show all the people who try to run a web hosting scam out there that WE will not put up with it any more!
    laters
    James
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Above The Clouds
    Posts
    7,223
    Greg,

    Thanks so much for putting in the effort and working tirelessly for everyone's benefit. This stuff is sheer gold. Don't ever stop..........
    Laurence Flynn @ HostNEXUS.com
    Managed WordPress Hosting Solutions
    Focused on speed. Obsessed with security.
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  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis USA
    Posts
    49
    Originally posted by NexDog
    Greg,

    Thanks so much for putting in the effort and working tirelessly for everyone's benefit. This stuff is sheer gold. Don't ever stop..........
    Ditto and Amen!
    Mike.

    Atlantic Bridge Publishing
    http://www.atlanticbridge.net/
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  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,748

    Matrix

    Just so know one get this crossed http://www.matrixreseller.com has nothing to do with these scammers..

    The name is kind of close so don't want this to get in to any ones head..
      0 Not allowed!

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Re: Matrix

    Originally posted by Vortech
    Just so know one get this crossed http://www.matrixreseller.com has nothing to do with these scammers..

    The name is kind of close so don't want this to get in to any ones head..
    Yes... absolutely! You're right. I forgot about that. I remember reading two or three threads about matrixreseller.com here in WebHostingTalk...

    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread...ixreseller.com

    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread...ixreseller.com

    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread...ixreseller.com

    and I made a mental note to myself to clarify it in my first post. Obviously I spaced it. Sorry.

    MatrixReseller (or at least the domain name) is owned by VortechHosting in Orlando, FL. As far as I know, there is no connection whatsoever with the Lavers.

    That having been said, knowing what I know about brand recognition and awareness, and how the human brain remembers things in weird and fragmented ways over time, I, personally, would shelve the domain matrixreseller.com given the history and bad name that resellermatrix.com has. There will definitely be confusion. We've seen it here, and I assure you that people outside of the hosting world will be even less discerning.

    And even search engines will cause confusion. For example, the search algorithm used by these forums returns not only the three threads shown above (all of which are about MatrixReseller) but also this thread (which is about ResellerMatrix) when one searches on the character string "matrixreseller". I realize that, at this point, that's because the post to which I'm responding here caused the character string "matrixreseller" to get into this thread. But I think we all know of search engines that would have confused the two regardless.

    My advice to VortechHosting (not that anyone asked for it, mind you): You may want to reconsider the name "matrixreseller" before you get too committed to it. Just my .02 worth.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-23-2002 at 11:33 AM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  22. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Re: Re: Matrix

    Originally posted by DesElms
    For example, the search algorithm used by these forums returns not only the three threads shown above (all of which are about MatrixReseller) but also this thread (which is about ResellerMatrix) when one searches on the character string "matrixreseller". I realize that, at this point, that's because the post to which I'm responding here caused the character string "matrixreseller" to get into this thread. But I think we all know of search engines that would have confused the two regardless.
    Whew... boy...

    ...now that I think more about it, it really bothers me that this anti-resellermatrix.com thread is returned whenever anyone searches these forums regarding matrixreseller.com

    That's just not fair to VortechHosting. Many people will look at the first few postings in this thread and stop reading before ever getting to these posts which make it clear that the two should not be confused. They will presume matrixreseller and resellermatrix are the same and they'll just move on... thereby unfairly depriving matrixreseller of business it might otherwise have secured.

    Hmmm. How 'bout this...

    Hey, vsomored (the guy who started this thread)...

    When you read this, could you please go back and edit your very first original posting that started this thread in the first place? Please add a simple sentence at the very end of it... perhaps something like:

    IMPORTANT NOTE: The domain names resellermatrix.com and matrixreseller.com should not be confused. It is the former, and not the latter, which is the subject of this thread.

    That would probably take care of it.

    <<MOD NOTE: This has been added>>

    But my recommendation to VortechHosting remains the same: Given the bad karma surrounding resellermatrix.com and the ease with which I guarantee you people will become confused, I'd dump the use of matrixreseller.com like a hot potato. Just a suggestion.

    {edit} I had an afterthought: If VortechHosting does stop using "matrixreseller.com" then maybe it can hold on to it and it can be pointed later toward any Lavers warning web site that might happen to come out of all this. I'm seriously considering building one (though I'm loathe to, frankly). Keep it in mind as a possibility, eh?
    Last edited by Chicken; 04-25-2002 at 07:02 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
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  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    285

    * blew me away

    Wow DesElms tears are coming out of my eyes you blew me away with such good posts. I wish all of the posts where like this at WHT but wait then there wouldn't be a discussion furum lol

    I really apreciate it that you decided to share such valuable information so that our hosting comunity becomes aware of this scammers.
    WCSWEB.NETWORKS - 24x7 Support We're here to help anytime, day or night!
    WCSHOST.Net <- Call us (800) 590-0017 ->
    Linux based Cpanel Shared and Reseller premium Hosting with Fantastico & rvskin
    Windows based Helm Shared Premium Hosting / Remote Backup solutions
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,748

    DesElms

    Thanks.. It would be nice if they could add that there.. I sure don't want in the middle of this...
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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Napa, California
    Posts
    341

    Just an update (4/26) for those following this saga...

    Looks like OpenHSP.com is alive and well again... after being down for a little while right after the complaint I sent to the BBB, various attorney generals' offices, the Lavers' domain name registrars, and the Lavers' ISP.

    (If you would like to see my complaint, and if you are viewing this thread in the default 15 posts-per-page format, a copy of my complaint is in the 11th post down on the 3rd page of this thread. And my history of the Lavers begins with the 9th post down on the 2nd page of this thread... in case you're interested.)

    I don't know if it was because of the aforementioned complaint I sent on 4/21/2002, or if my complaint was just icing on the cake of many other complaints that Bulkregister and SBC PacBell Internet/Nevada Bell Internet received, but here's what's different about OpenHSP's current existence:


    ITEM 1:

    Bulkregister.com must have gotten tired of the messages to its Abuse Dept because the first thing I notice is that after years of registering all of their domains through Bulkregister, the Lavers have now become a GoDaddy customer -- at least for the openhsp.com domain name. The domain openhsp.com was moved from Bulkregister to GoDaddy on 4/23/2002, to wit:

    Registrant:
    OpenHSP.com OpenHSP.com
    OpenHSP.com
    7000 Mae Anne Avenue #2124
    Reno, Nevada 89523
    United States

    Registrar: Go Daddy Software (http://registrar.godaddy.com)
    Domain Name: OPENHSP.COM
    Created on: 23-Apr-02
    Expires on:
    Last Updated on: 24-Apr-02

    Domain servers in listed order:
    NS1.OPENHSP.COM
    NS2.OPENHSP.COM


    The Lavers' other domain names remain at Bulkregister.


    ITEM 2:

    OpenHSP was using a range of SBC PacBell Internet IP addresses that had been registered to Mike Lavers through SBC Internet's Nevada Bell Internet (66.122.87.32 - 66.122.87.39). And, if one interrogates the ARIN database for PacBell's (pbi.net's) PBI-NET-9 block, one can see that those IP addresses continue to be registered to Mike Lavers. And they continue to resolve in DNS as active, working nvbell.net DSL circuits out of the Reno, NV NOC.

    At this writing, OpenHSP's second name server (ns2.openhsp.com) continues to use an IP address (66.122.87.37) in the range registered to Mike Lavers and described in the preceding paragraph. OpenHSP's first name server (ns1.openhsp.com) will not, at this writing, resolve in DNS.

    Right after my aforementioned complaint, OpenHSP disappeared again -- just as the Lavers' Cedura Networks had disappeared after people here and in other forums blew the whistle on them.

    Then, starting a couple days ago, the Lavers moved OpenHSP over to a different IP range that is still in the PBI-NET-9 block, only this time the range is, curiously, registered to:

    ROUND TABL PZZA NV LLC (NETBLK-SBC066122087056020409)
    268 Bush St
    San Francisco, Ca 94104
    US

    Netname: SBC066122087056020409
    Netblock: 66.122.87.56 - 66.122.87.63

    Coordinator:
    Pacific Bell Internet (PIA2-ORG-ARIN) ip-admin@PBI.NET
    888-212-5411


    And all of those IPs resolve in DNS to SBC/Nevada Bell Internet DSL circuits out of the Reno, NV NOC. The last one in the range (66.122.87.63) is the IP address of the OpenHSP web site itself.

    Hmm. Next time you're-a-hankerin' for a pizza and thinkin' 'bout goin' over to your nearby Round Table Pizza parlor to get one, perhaps you should think twice about supporting any entity that would ever help the Lavers in any way. Just a thought... harkening back to my old, sign-carrying, protest/boycott roots.

    Or perhaps this reassignment is the act of someone at SBC PacBell/Nevada Bell -- maybe because the heat was on or something like that. It's kinda' odd. I'm not sure, really, what this means. And I don't have time to research it. Maybe the ol' man (David Lavers) bought a Round Table Pizza franchise in Reno. Perhaps someone reading this might be willing to take it upon themselves to do that part of the research and see if they can make some sense of it and post the results back here, in this forum.

    But what it comes down to, in the end, is that OpenHSP is hosting its own site and the sites of its reseller customers on a server or servers of its own, using as its bandwidth the aggregate performance of seven (7) DSL (presumably SDSL) circuits. (Or at least I hope they're SDSL -- for their poor customers' sake!) If OpenHSP is also still using the 8 IP addresses in the aforementioned range registered to Mike Lavers, then they're using 15 DSL circuits.

    [sigh]

    Either way, it's not very professional, is it? Or, most importantly, reliable. But I don't know why I'm letting that surprise me.


    ITEM 3:

    Cedura Networks' home page, at this writing, remains the Apache web server default page -- just as ResellerMatrix's home page does. These Apache web server default pages appear at first to be physically located on servers at HostSeguro in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil because they are in an IP range assigned to HostSeguro. This, perhaps, as a diversion to make people think that the Lavers' have physically located their operations off-shore.

    Regardless, despite the seeming diversion, those IP addresses actually end-up at HostNOC (BurstNET) in Bloomsburg, PA, USA. (Or maybe it's simply because HostNOC/BurstNET had no other IPs to give them and HostSeguro's were handy... it might be as innocent as that. Who knows.)

    Both Cedura Networks and ResellerMatrix have "support" (and other) subdomains that resolve to IP addresses in a range assigned to ResellerMatrix at HostNOC (BurstNET) in Bloomsburg, PA, USA.

    One may see what the old ResellerMatrix.net web site looked like by going to one of the Lavers' old domain names: matrixcubed.com and matrixcubed.net. Why the resellermatrix.net web site is on the matrixcubed.xxx domain is unclear. It's only a guess, but it's probably set up that way so that the Lavers can make resellermatrix.net work at any moment by simply pointing a CNAME alias at one of the matrixcubed domains. But who really knows what's in Mike Lavers' brain.

    MatrixCubed's IPs, incidentally, are also part of ResellerMatrix's assigned range at HostNOC/BurstNET.

    The old HostingMatrix domains continue to be owned by the Lavers, but, at this writing, do not resolve. The IPs of their name servers are still showing as being at Alabanza -- where the Lavers are no longer (wanted as) customers.


    Confused?

    If the answer to that question is "yes," then perhaps congratulations to the Lavers are in order. Confusing us is clearly their intent. I can't think of a single reputable hosting company that has left such an intentionally convoluted trail. And that's because the Lavers want it that way. The more we know and post in public places about them, the faster and deeper they must run for cover -- like cockroaches on the kitchen counter when you first switch on the light.

    Obfuscation is the coin of the Lavers' realm.


    Wanna help?

    I can't be the only person carrying-on this campaign to keep hounding the Lavers until it's just no longer worth it for them to be in the hosting business. I need your help to keep-up the pressure.

    Everyone needs to take a moment and send a message to:

    support@pacbell.net
    abuse@pacbell.net
    support@nvbell.net
    abuse@nvbell.net

    and remind them that OpenHSP is a spammer and has been kicked-off BurstNET's servers, and has apparently been booted from BulkRegister, for it (see: openhsp.net or openhsp.org -- two domains either registered by or seized by VeoWeb/BurstNET so it could put up a page warning others about the Lavers).

    Also remind SBC PacBell/Nevada Bell that they have already been advised that the people who run OpenHSP are known to commit fraudulent and misleading deeds, as described in this forum; that they are engaging in misleading behavior even at this moment by using an IP range registered to Round Table Pizza rather than to Mike Lavers, whose IP range registered in his name is right there in that same PBI-NET-9 block.

    And ask SBC PacBell/Nevada Bell to please terminate OpenHSP's service.

    Same for GoDaddy. Send an email straight to its president, Bob Parsons -- or, better yet, call him. Bob is a deeply spiritual guy and decent man. I'm sure he has no idea that such nefarious characters as the Lavers are now his customers -- or that his competitor, Bulkregister, dumped them for it. So point him to this thread and ask him to read it thoroughly. I'm fairly certain (though I could be wrong) that, if Bob read this thread, he'd ask the Lavers to go elsewhere as well.

    In the meantime, I gotta' go now. I can't spend any more time on this at the moment.

    Policing ourselves, here on the web, is partly how we keep legislators from making stupid laws that restrict our Internet freedom. The Lavers are bad actors who need to be gone from this industry. This is our chance, right here, right now, to make a difference. To keep-up the pressure. To prevent another innocent victim from falling prey to the Lavers.

    Please do what you can. Every little bit helps.
    Last edited by DesElms; 04-27-2002 at 01:42 PM.
    Gregg L. DesElms
      0 Not allowed!

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