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  1. #1
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    Jan 2011
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    got charge back after 3 months

    I got a charge back after 3 months huh!

    is there we can stop them or chase these fraudster legally?


    Also charge backs come from credit cards mostly,Should we use paypal or other payment processors only instead of credit cards?


    what do you say?

    there should be a centralized database where such scammers are reported along with their information so other people can stay safe from them.

  2. #2
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    Jacob Khanis - Chief Marketing Officer
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  3. #3
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    You can still pay via Credit Card on PayPal and the user can still initiate a chargeback via their bank and in a lot of cases those users win

    This happens quite a lot actually, you'd be surprised at how many times you will lose a case.
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  4. #4
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    Are you using a fraud protection service such as Maxmind with your billing software?
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  5. #5
    There is really no way of avoiding such things if a customer really wants to get away with doing what they are doing. Even if you try to avoid these chargebacks by calling all of your customers to verify or asking for their ID, you will only hurt yourself when you lose customers.

  6. #6
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    ^ Good way to avoid chargebacks is by using methods that will prevent them in the first place - ID is usually one of those methods that will deter a criminal from proceeding.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    ^ Good way to avoid chargebacks is by using methods that will prevent them in the first place - ID is usually one of those methods that will deter a criminal from proceeding.
    whats that, I v seen customers passing maxmind, suceeding calls etc, the only way is use paypal if customer is habitually chargebacks ppal has some record.

    Or is there any website/database where victims can fill up the info of bad customers?

  8. #8
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    Chargebacks occur with any payment processor you use since the action can be done from the source of the funding like your bank or credit card company.

    Another thing you should note is that the more aggressive form of fraud checks you use eg calling to confirm orders, requesting ID info etc, is the less fraud you MAY have and the more customers you will scare away. If I was going to purchase a television from Amazon and they requested my ID information to be faxed to them, I would leave. That does not mean Amazon does not have fraud check methods in place, it simply means they have less aggressive or less known tactics in place to make the ordering process much more smoothly.

    In short, implement fraud checks that your clients won't know that are in place and your business will florish! Maxmind is a good start.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobK View Post
    Really good tips in this article that anyone doing business should follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrocWeb View Post
    Are you using a fraud protection service such as Maxmind with your billing software?
    Exactly. This alone can help prevent most fraud orders on your system, thus reducing your chargeback percentage considerably.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysguru View Post
    I got a charge back after 3 months huh!
    Under certain conditions, chargebacks can be done as long as approximately 1.5 years after the time of purchase, maybe more.

    Quote Originally Posted by sysguru View Post
    is there we can stop them or chase these fraudster legally?
    Yes, do a better job at spotting fraud and take adequate measures to protect yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by sysguru View Post
    Also charge backs come from credit cards mostly,Should we use paypal or other payment processors only instead of credit cards?
    PayPal can still be charged back. Unless you resort to using Ukash, Paysafe, and other prepaid cards, there is always a risk of a chargeback or reversed transaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by sysguru View Post
    there should be a centralized database where such scammers are reported along with their information so other people can stay safe from them.
    There are such services.

    It seems you haven't done much research into anti-fraud measures yet. How you got a merchant account in the first place is strange, since such agreements normally cover anti-fraud procedures to some degree.

    Better luck in the future.

  11. #11
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    Jan 2011
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    whats the best score I should put of maxmind, as to my experience may legit orders were rejected when I put the score 4.5 now its 9, any tips?

  12. #12
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    2checkout.com is great for preventing these types of charge-backs. In most cases, what happens is someone used a stolen credit card to purchase your services, which the victim did not notice until a few months down the road (hence the late charge back).

    We used to run into these types of issues back when we were handling most of the payment processing ourselves. We made the switch to 2checkout.com around 2005 and haven't had any of those types of charge-backs since then. Its a bit more pricey than your usually payment processors like Authorize.net or even paypal, but its worth the extra cost in my opinion.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FernGullyGraphics View Post
    2checkout.com is great for preventing these types of charge-backs. In most cases, what happens is someone used a stolen credit card to purchase your services, which the victim did not notice until a few months down the road (hence the late charge back).

    We used to run into these types of issues back when we were handling most of the payment processing ourselves. We made the switch to 2checkout.com around 2005 and haven't had any of those types of charge-backs since then. Its a bit more pricey than your usually payment processors like Authorize.net or even paypal, but its worth the extra cost in my opinion.
    yes its a third party like plimus. how about plimus if we say

    2co vs plimus

    which one is better in anti fraud as well reliability?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysguru View Post
    yes its a third party like plimus. how about plimus if we say

    2co vs plimus

    which one is better in anti fraud as well reliability?
    Cant really comment on plimus, but taking a brief look at thier website, thier rates do not seem very attractive at all. Almost charging 15% per transaction?
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  15. #15
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    I don't know much about Plimus, but I can say that 2CheckOut is very good and their fraud screening is excellent. +1
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  16. #16
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    I dare say 2CheckOut is good indeed.
    I like how it works.

  17. #17
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    To some extent, you need to account for chargebacks in your business plan. They happen and you can minimize the risk but only so much (for example you can't stop people who file chargebacks after actually using their own card because it's difficult to prove delivery of a non tangible product).

  18. #18
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    customers to verify or asking for their ID, you will only hurt yourself when you lose customers.
    eg calling to confirm orders, requesting ID info etc, is the less fraud you MAY have and the more customers you will scare away..
    Good.

    I'm of the opinion that these people are crybabies, scared of the Big Bad Internet blowing their virtual house down. These are the kinds of people who tend to be problem customers in other ways, not just scared of the Credit Card Cookie Monster (or Driver's License Cookie Monster). Scaring away these timid customers is in many ways just doing yourself a favor. Don't think of it as "losing customers" as much as acting like a virtual bouncer, keep out the riff-raff.

    There are posts here all the time at WHT, would-be customers leaving bad feedback for hosts with this policy. Almost never do I see one of them act reasonable. Most of them come across as foaming-at-the-mouth children having a temper tantrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    Under certain conditions, chargebacks can be done as long as approximately 1.5 years after the time of purchase, maybe more.
    This is absolutely false.

    Please name one scenario where this can happen. (Hint: You can't.) The window for chargebacks is around 60-120 days. There's a whole schedule of what can and cannot go on during several windows within that timeframe, one of which is the earlier reporting timeframe (which is itself separate from the latter evidence submission timeframe).

    One way to avoid chargebacks is to ensure your hosting service is good.
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  19. #19
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    I believe when dealing with Americans especially, they do not like to give their real name and their contact information far less for their cc details and verification information. I have had several people from the United States sign up for dev work and delayed for weeks before making a payment. When the payment went through, it was a totally different name and sometimes address to what was originally stated on the account. (Not one of those have ever requested a chargeback by the way) But I simply stated that to show you that I feel that sector tends to be ever more fearful for identity theft than the rest especially since after 9/11
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean View Post
    ^ Good way to avoid chargebacks is by using methods that will prevent them in the first place - ID is usually one of those methods that will deter a criminal from proceeding.
    I personally would not pass out my ID unless its governing body that required it this is also police statements to combat identity theft and fraud.
    Now does that make me a criminal?

    Sorry this is just bad advise.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by azaz24 View Post
    I personally would not pass out my ID unless its governing body that required it this is also police statements to combat identity theft and fraud.
    Now does that make me a criminal?
    No, it makes you unaware that any entity that accepts credit cards is supposed to verify ID according to Visa, Mastercard and AmEx policies. Failure to do so gives you little recourse for a defense, if you accept without such verification. Hosts that insist on further verification are following the rules of business.

    By even holding such a credit card, you've agreed to allow ID verifications.

    If you want to use a host that doesn't seem to care about who uses its service, you'll likely find yourself on a lousy service that's being abused and misused.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    No, it makes you unaware that any entity that accepts credit cards is supposed to verify ID according to Visa, Mastercard and AmEx policies. Failure to do so gives you little recourse for a defense, if you accept without such verification. Hosts that insist on further verification are following the rules of business.

    By even holding such a credit card, you've agreed to allow ID verifications.

    If you want to use a host that doesn't seem to care about who uses its service, you'll likely find yourself on a lousy service that's being abused and misused.

    My post was so simple…

    I don’t agree that a host signs up a client without asking id it don't care!
    (and not to name any).

    I don't disagree if a host asks for id as some country’s are high risk and its up to the host to accept the client or not its that simple.

    Visa already has done this verification via the bank. The id thing now is just business policy and that’s fine and those hosts don't ask for it does not make them lousy.


    If you take a look at me post carefully you missed a very important part that part is easily ignored but no worry's.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by azaz24 View Post
    Visa already has done this verification via the bank.
    No.
    Nothing is verified. I don't see how you think that.
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  24. #24
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    Feb 2011
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    I didn't know about 2checkout until reading this post. For those of you that use it, does it fully integrate with WHMCS ? Would the users be redirected to another site for checkout, or would it work the same way as it does with a standard merchant account? Any feedback would be appreciated. I'm the process of switching to avalon to try and save some money, but 2checkout looks attractive as well.

  25. #25
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    Back when web hosting was still a young business credit card processing companies did not understand the nature of someone jumping from host to host with their website. We found that a quicker resolution to their problems kept them happy and resulted in less charge backs. Customer Service is important in that regard.

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