Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Layer42 review

  1. #1

    Layer42 review

    Layer 42 is a truly evil company. we've been their customers for one year and we found the following facts:

    - there is no onsite support. they claim there is, but there is not. for example, not a single emergency ticket was ever responded. we had to drive to facility to restart equipment

    - facility has frequent power failures. once they didn't even answer the phones when it happened.

    - and the worst: all contracts are auto renewed, and require 60 -day notice prior to expiration. there is *only* a year option for any service. don't phase out contracts: we had cabinets and 50mbit/s bandwidth from august, then we bought much more bandwidth in december. since they do *only*anual contracts, cabinets were expiring in next august and bandwidth four months later. in order to leave, we're now faced either to waste money for 4 months of bandwidth or 8 months of cabinets. no, they explicitly won't let us buy any of these monthly.

    yes, it sucks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by ivko View Post
    - and the worst: all contracts are auto renewed, and require 60 -day notice prior to expiration. there is *only* a year option for any service. don't phase out contracts: we had cabinets and 50mbit/s bandwidth from august, then we bought much more bandwidth in december. since they do *only*anual contracts, cabinets were expiring in next august and bandwidth four months later. in order to leave, we're now faced either to waste money for 4 months of bandwidth or 8 months of cabinets. no, they explicitly won't let us buy any of these monthly.
    This is fairly common. I know that I have no interest in doing business unless their is going to be a long term business relationship associated to it. Lots of businesses share that viewpoint. If you want people to work hard for you, they're going to need that you're going to be around. How they operate internally after the fact will vary, but I do know the owner and he is a good guy so i'm finding this hard to believe without hearing the other side of the story. I've never been a customer of theirs though so I can't really attest on a business level.

    Is it safe to assume that you've stated your concerns to Layer42 directly prior to flaming them on your first WHT post?
    James Cornman
    365 Data Centers - AS19151/AS29838
    Colocation • Network Connectivity • Managed Infrastructure Services

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
    Posts
    4,615
    - there is no onsite support. they claim there is, but there is not. for example, not a single emergency ticket was ever responded. we had to drive to facility to restart equipment
    This concerns me greatly. I've dealt with this with companies in my past, and it's something I'd run from, not walk, immediately.
    Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
    Since 2003 - Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by amc-james View Post
    Is it safe to assume that you've stated your concerns to Layer42 directly prior to flaming them on your first WHT post?
    yes we did. we had a long phone call without success.

    yearly contract is not the issue. that we understand well.

    the problem is our two contracts are phased differently (cabinets and bandwidth, because we added more bandwidth couple of months later).

    now, after cabinets expire, they won't let us continue on monthly basis until the second one (bandwidth) also expires.

    that means we either have to waste bandwidth 4 months, waste cabinets 8 months or simply continue with layer 42 (we want to leave)

    I find this a very bad business practice and a form of extortion.



    I do read about Steve being a good guy, and I find hard to believe the situation we're left in

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    1,282
    Well, I know when I'm negotiating contracts, before anything gets signed I make sure their is a clause to prorate the dates of things. if they want your business they'd make that provision for you. That way your terms would line up. Good luck.
    James Cornman
    365 Data Centers - AS19151/AS29838
    Colocation • Network Connectivity • Managed Infrastructure Services

  6. #6
    we're talking about two cabinets and 150mbit/s of bandwidth

    btw, we're ranked fifth application company on facebook platform.


    and due credit: L42 has great network link.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    66
    I normally do not respond to emails like this in public. But
    since this customer has gone out of their way to slander my
    business (as part of this process, they also threatened to do this). I feel
    it is my duty to my shareholders and my employees to to do so.

    "No Onsite Support" - Our datacenter is staffed 24 hours a day.
    On multiple occasions this customer claimed tickets were opened,
    but never did. Our investigation found their browser was blocking cookies, which caused them to be logged out of the ticket system before the ticket was opened. When they tried to submit a ticket they were returned to the login page, which should be a hint. They never bothered to call us to tell us their might be a problem. We notified the customer that our ticket system required cookies, and they continued to ignore us.
    I believed this happened 3 times.

    "Frequent Power Outages" - We have had 1 power failure in 2 years
    due to a faulty battery system. The problem was fixed, and we
    have not had a power outage since that time (about 1 year). We were very upfront with customers when it happened, and issued an RFO within 24 hours. We also took many corrective actions to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen again (moved from third party to factory service on the UPSes among others).
    And yes, we didn't answer the phone for about 15 minutes after the outage, while the phone system came back online. That is the problem with using a Asterisk based system I suppose.

    "Contract renewal" - This is standard industry practice and is
    clearly stated in the first paragraph of our 1 page contract. We don't hide it in a 10 page contract like some of the larger providers, we clearly state it. This is a problem we ourselves face when we buy service, and we make sure if we want to cancel something, we cancel it when we are supposed to. I do make it a point to read and understand all contracts I sign, and I would hope that everyone did the same thing.
    I think James Cornman provided a really good answer to why our industry has auto renewing contracts, thanks James!

    "Can't go month to month" - This seemes irrelevant, as the contracts have already renewed. However, I will say that we
    offered to sign a new contract and remove some unused services
    and that the customer refused since they only want a month to
    month contract. Can't have your cake and eat it too. We tried
    to do the right thing.




    Quote Originally Posted by ivko View Post
    Layer 42 is a truly evil company. we've been their customers for one year and we found the following facts:

    - there is no onsite support. they claim there is, but there is not. for example, not a single emergency ticket was ever responded. we had to drive to facility to restart equipment

    - facility has frequent power failures. once they didn't even answer the phones when it happened.

    - and the worst: all contracts are auto renewed, and require 60 -day notice prior to expiration. there is *only* a year option for any service. don't phase out contracts: we had cabinets and 50mbit/s bandwidth from august, then we bought much more bandwidth in december. since they do *only*anual contracts, cabinets were expiring in next august and bandwidth four months later. in order to leave, we're now faced either to waste money for 4 months of bandwidth or 8 months of cabinets. no, they explicitly won't let us buy any of these monthly.

    yes, it sucks.
    Last edited by ST-3; 06-25-2008 at 12:30 PM.
    Steve Rubin - ser@layer42.net
    Layer42 Networks - http://www.Layer42.net/

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ST-3 View Post
    "No Onsite Support" - Our datacenter is staffed 24 hours a day.
    On multiple occasions this customer claimed tickets were opened,
    but never did. Our investigation found their browser was blocking cookies, which caused them to be logged out of the ticket system before the ticket was opened. When they tried to submit a ticket they were returned to the login page, which should be a hint. They never bothered to call us to tell us their might be a problem. We notified the customer that our ticket system required cookies, and they continued to ignore us.
    I believed this happened 3 times.

    blame it on cookies. I suggest fixing the system instead, if that's really the problem.



    so, if we have cabinet contract ending in august and bandwidth contract ending in december - how do we exit Layer 42? what are the options?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by ivko
    Layer 42 is a truly evil company. we've been their customers for one year and we found the following facts:
    - there is no onsite support. they claim there is, but there is not. for example, not a single emergency ticket was ever responded. we had to drive to facility to restart equipment
    - facility has frequent power failures. once they didn't even answer the phones when it happened.
    I'm not sure how you came to discover these facts, but I can't corroborate them. I'm in the facility 1-2x a week to install new gear and there is always someone there, and I'll show anyone one of my servers thats been up for 200+ days, only reason its been that short was because I did an OS upgrade...

    I've had nothing but a great experience there, so I'm confused as to where you've been going.

    PS: if you blow your own circuit breaker, and consider that a power outage, you might want to reinvestigate what caused your circuit breaker to blow...
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by ivko View Post
    blame it on cookies. I suggest fixing the system instead, if that's really the problem.



    so, if we have cabinet contract ending in august and bandwidth contract ending in december - how do we exit Layer 42? what are the options?
    Ivko, I am not going to do contract negotiations in a public forum, you know how to reach our sales staff if you want to discuss your options.
    Steve Rubin - ser@layer42.net
    Layer42 Networks - http://www.Layer42.net/

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=appliedops;5180161PS: if you blow your own circuit breaker, and consider that a power outage, you might want to reinvestigate what caused your circuit breaker to blow...[/QUOTE]

    not the case.



    We owe public to know how Layer42 locks in their customers, or how they blame cookies for why they didn't respond to customer's tickets. I'm a web developer - and I always use default browser configuration (FF). I know that was a bad answer.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ST-3 View Post
    Ivko, I am not going to do contract negotiations in a public forum, you know how to reach our sales staff if you want to discuss your options.

    I think it was a fair question and I think it's important for public to know the answer. that's the whole point of our dispute.

    our direct communication didn't bring result and we think Layer42 is unfairly locking their customers

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    66
    Ivko, ticket #s please?
    Steve Rubin - ser@layer42.net
    Layer42 Networks - http://www.Layer42.net/

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kusadasi, Turkey
    Posts
    3,379
    Quote Originally Posted by ivko View Post
    or how they blame cookies for why they didn't respond to customer's tickets. I'm a web developer - and I always use default browser configuration (FF). I know that was a bad answer.
    Did you actually login and see you have the tickets there? Just asking.
    Fraud Record - Stop Fraud Clients, Report Abusive Customers.
    █ Combine your efforts to fight misbehaving clients.

    HarzemDesign - Highest quality, well designed and carefully coded hosting designs. Not cheap though.
    █ Large and awesome portfolio, just visit and see!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    1,282
    If you can't interpret your contracts or negotiate properly, I'm failing to see how this is Layer42's fault. You are the authoritative person that knows your exact needs and are responsible for planning properly. If you can't plan your business and forecast its needs for growth/expansion/migration to another DC/etc, that's your own problem.

    Contracts exist to protect both parties. They're protecting their bottom line and I see nothing wrong with it. On the same token they're protecting yours by being bound to provide services as defined. Airing dirty laundry regarding contracts and other possibly proprietary information is only making you look like unprofessional. Stop. Discuss with them privately as its nothing the public needs to know. Stop trying to be a martyr here.

    As for your power/support ticket issues, i'm leaning towards Layer42 on this one. Knowing this business, power outages can break companies and I just don't see them tolerating such things.
    For support, did you even bother to get some sort of support SLA from them? This should be standard procedure.

    In short, if you can't set forth your demands and get everyone to agree (regarding contract proration, etc), you have no right to call them out on things and accuse them of having bad practices.
    James Cornman
    365 Data Centers - AS19151/AS29838
    Colocation • Network Connectivity • Managed Infrastructure Services

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Harzem View Post
    Did you actually login and see you have the tickets there? Just asking.
    Our ticket system sends email responses, he never would have gotten an email response with the ticket # because the ticket was never opened.
    Steve Rubin - ser@layer42.net
    Layer42 Networks - http://www.Layer42.net/

  17. #17
    I've been customer of various colo/dedicated services for number of years, and Layer42 simply can't lock in their customers this way. Period.

    I'll stop here for this thread becoming back and forth.


    Thanks everybody for listening.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ivko View Post
    I've been customer of various colo/dedicated services for number of years, and Layer42 simply can't lock in their customers this way. Period.

    I'll stop here for this thread becoming back and forth.


    Thanks everybody for listening.
    You made no point...you just wrote some libelous remarks without any proof what so ever....

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    3,302
    Blame it on the customer or blame it on Layer42, having two separate contracts for related services that are not on the same schedule is a problem. The new contract should have been coterminous with the existing one; this is a relatively standard thing in the IT/telecom industry.

    IMHO, it's generally not worth it to keep a dissatisfied customer. I would find a way to break off the relationship that is acceptable to both sides.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
    Offering Dedicated Server and Colocation Hosting from our SSAE 16 SOC 2, Type 2 Certified Data Center.
    Current specials here. Check them out.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,957
    I'm with Jay, the annual contract is pretty standard and doesn't seem to be the issue. The issue seems to be that:

    1) The contract automatically renews on a 1 year terms, not month-to-month after the initial term, as is the case with basically all contracts I have ever dealt with. The customer did agree to these terms though, if it were an issue, it should have been brought up before the contract was signed, not after. Still, it is not a completely common situation to expect, etc.

    2) When the new contract was signed the two contracts should have been set to co terminate. I would think the company would and should recommend that that be the case, but it is ultimately the customer's responsibility to request it, as they're the one signing the contract.

    Basically, I feel Layer42 should have been more helpful initially, working out co termination terms from the beginning, etc. Other than that though, the customer should understand the contract they're signing, especially when it is a paper contract, not just a posted terms of service on a web site.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    Blame it on the customer or blame it on Layer42, having two separate contracts for related services that are not on the same schedule is a problem. The new contract should have been coterminous with the existing one; this is a relatively standard thing in the IT/telecom industry.

    IMHO, it's generally not worth it to keep a dissatisfied customer. I would find a way to break off the relationship that is acceptable to both sides.
    Jay,

    There are a number of contractual issues involved here, and its not quite as cut and dry as the customer has stated. (ie: revenue commits vs specific services, etc).
    Steve Rubin - ser@layer42.net
    Layer42 Networks - http://www.Layer42.net/

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,026
    I believe Layer42 does not deserve this negative thread nor this type of review and I hope whoever read this thread will not stop on the first post. I can feel how ivko the customer would express his/her complaints, but annual contract is a standard in this industry.

    I am sure that everything can be solved favorably for all. I strongly believe that this thread should be locked/solved since this issue is a domestic issue between Layer42 and his customer.

    Cheers!
    Reyner Natahamidjaja
    :: Global IP Networks - Tier 3 Data Center and Managed IT Solutions
    :: SSAE 16 SOC-2, PCI and HIPAA Compliant
    :: https://gipnetworks.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Denver,CO
    Posts
    45
    I have been a customer of Layer 42 for quite some time and I can tell you that Steve and his staff have gone way out of his way for my team. They have been staffed and helpful every time I have needed them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •