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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dschuermans View Post
    Aren't you able to modify the source code for the minecraft server?
    You've never worked with a game server customer have you? I consider myself lucky if they can install the software without assistance. I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to edit the source code, even if it were possible. These aren't programmers, they're gamers.
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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dschuermans View Post
    Aren't you able to modify the source code for the minecraft server?

    If your 100mbit line isn't completely flooded and you're only experiencing lag in-game you could easily implement a timeout on your minecraft server before it accepts the connection from any client.

    This can be done using hooks as well.

    Usually when they ddos a gameserver they go for the login port. They continuisly connect & disconnect which could result in your server running out allocatable stuff (can't come up with the exact term, whenever someone connects to a server they get 1 of this "thing" from the stack)

    So if the server waits, lets say 5 seconds before allocating, users that actually want to play will be stuck on the login screen for 5 seconds and get allocated, whereas the attacks won't be, thus free'ing up your system.

    If you are getting flooded, then the above won't work ofcourse
    Nah, they have been hitting the web/ssh port, they only hit the MC port once.

    Attacks have been less often and less powerful recently, maybe they'll get bored.

    EDIT: They aren't doing sophisticated attacks, they just flood the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    You've never worked with a game server customer have you? I consider myself lucky if they can install the software without assistance. I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to edit the source code, even if it were possible. These aren't programmers, they're gamers.
    I agree, most people cannot do much.

    I don't know Java, but I can easily handle Linux administration, and I do see quite a few idiots who can't even do things like port forward when I'm on the Minecraft forums.

    Hey, if I couldn't handle Linux administration, we wouldn't be on a dedicated box (although I'm actually the only one of the three owners who knows how to use our box/Linux).

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by battlekid View Post
    I agree, most people cannot do much.

    I don't know Java, but I can easily handle Linux administration, and I do see quite a few idiots who can't even do things like port forward when I'm on the Minecraft forums.

    Hey, if I couldn't handle Linux administration, we wouldn't be on a dedicated box (although I'm actually the only one of the three owners who knows how to use our box/Linux).
    Really not a dig against game server customers, more just, know your audience. Heck, I wouldn't even expect a sysadmin to be capable of, or even inclined to, reprogram java to deal with a DoS. Now, taking that one step further, I certainly wouldn't expect a game server client to be reprogramming anything; they're buying the server to play games, not develop software.
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  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Really not a dig against game server customers, more just, know your audience. Heck, I wouldn't even expect a sysadmin to be capable of, or even inclined to, reprogram java to deal with a DoS. Now, taking that one step further, I certainly wouldn't expect a game server client to be reprogramming anything; they're buying the server to play games, not develop software.
    Quite true.

    I run a server, not a GSP, but it's true that the vast majority of people renting from game server providers don't really know what they are doing, and that's where those game server providers get their primary business from.

    I agree with that trail of thought-- most people playing Minecraft (to be honest, ANY games) don't really have the knowledge or inclination to run/manage a full server, and would rather pay much more so that they can just press a button to turn it on, and press another to turn it off instead of dealing with Linux. Then, there are some who are willing to learn, and I am one of those, but even then, I doubt that I would be interested in learning a whole new programming language and reprogramming the server because I needed something changed. There's a place for everyone-- the Minecraft server is next to useless while vanilla, and the vast majority of people use a popular (unofficial) mod/plugin platform for it on servers. There are those who write the server mod/platform, and there are those who write plugins for it, and there are the others who use said platform and plugins to run servers. Most sysadmins/server owners simply don't have enough time to write mods and run servers at the same time, although there are quite a few who do.

    I must say though, the vast majority of people playing Minecraft who want to run a server manage to royally piss me off, mostly because they are self-entitled people who want to press a button and have a server magically startup (without any user setup), that's easy to run, doesn't require port forwarding or static IPs, and in short, means that they don't have to do any work to maintain it.

    Anyways, enough rambling.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    You've never worked with a game server customer have you? I consider myself lucky if they can install the software without assistance. I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to edit the source code, even if it were possible. These aren't programmers, they're gamers.
    I've been a game server customer myself for about 3 years.
    Hosted a Lineage 2 MMORPG server.

    Tasks included adding new game content and such, I was one of the developers for our community.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlekid View Post
    Nah, they have been hitting the web/ssh port, they only hit the MC port once.

    Attacks have been less often and less powerful recently, maybe they'll get bored.

    EDIT: They aren't doing sophisticated attacks, they just flood the line.
    Well, then my solution doesn't apply to you ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Really not a dig against game server customers, more just, know your audience. Heck, I wouldn't even expect a sysadmin to be capable of, or even inclined to, reprogram java to deal with a DoS. Now, taking that one step further, I certainly wouldn't expect a game server client to be reprogramming anything; they're buying the server to play games, not develop software.
    It all depends on what kind of gameserver your customer is hosting too be honest
    Plug and play server suchs as FPS, or in this case Minecraft doesn't require much knowledge indeed.

    However, when there's a need to add additional content or when there's lots of money involved etc the kind of people that are, in your eyes simple "game server customers" turn out to be quite skilled programmers.

    When our servers suffered from DDoS attacks we simple tackled the problem head on. They were demanding that we paid them with either money or ingame advantages over the other players but we refused.
    In the end, we overcame his silly DDoS attempts by simply incorporating a time out on the socket requests for the login server.

    He was still able to flood our line (since we were still on a 100mbit line) but he soon gave up when he noticed our server didn't crash anymore.

    In return for his DDoS attempts, we tried tracking down & taking over his botnet to turn it over to the authorities but he vanished before we could complete our quest ;D

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Argentina
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    Ok,
    a few thing to keep in mind.

    First .. you tell us the DDoS attacks saturate all the NIC Bandwidth right ?
    Ok .. you talk with your provider to see how big is the DDos ? because if the DDoS only have 100 Mbit or maybe 200 Mbit .. its to small to be a problem. or a big problem ... because that is not a "Real DDoS" or a DDoS to be worried. and maybe you can deal with that at your Box side.

    A real DDoS have more than 1 Gbps ... ( i saw attacks with more than 15gbps ) and that its Big ..

    its like a Big Bear living in a cigarretes box. imagine that ?

    well.

    - Second.

    The attacks are regulary decreasing because the infected machines give signs of virus and the virus is deleted )and the attacker try to recruit more machins.

    If you know the location of the botnet you must use the regulars ways.

    First report the IP to the IP owner. all the IPs have an Abuse email for this cases.

    next you can copy to the FBI cybercrime office that email reporting the ip. This Guys are very serious regarding this things..

    Trust me.

    if you have problems with more attacks and you can`t handle and your provider can`t do anything so.. you can find here in WHT a lot of providers with DDoS filtering protection.
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  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by IPSecureNetwork View Post
    Ok,
    a few thing to keep in mind.

    First .. you tell us the DDoS attacks saturate all the NIC Bandwidth right ?
    Ok .. you talk with your provider to see how big is the DDos ? because if the DDoS only have 100 Mbit or maybe 200 Mbit .. its to small to be a problem. or a big problem ... because that is not a "Real DDoS" or a DDoS to be worried. and maybe you can deal with that at your Box side.

    A real DDoS have more than 1 Gbps ... ( i saw attacks with more than 15gbps ) and that its Big ..

    its like a Big Bear living in a cigarretes box. imagine that ?

    well.

    - Second.

    The attacks are regulary decreasing because the infected machines give signs of virus and the virus is deleted )and the attacker try to recruit more machins.

    If you know the location of the botnet you must use the regulars ways.

    First report the IP to the IP owner. all the IPs have an Abuse email for this cases.

    next you can copy to the FBI cybercrime office that email reporting the ip. This Guys are very serious regarding this things..

    Trust me.

    if you have problems with more attacks and you can`t handle and your provider can`t do anything so.. you can find here in WHT a lot of providers with DDoS filtering protection.
    Attacks have ranged from 50mbps to 100mbps (entire server saturated, as we are on a 100mbps line).

    I reported a few of the attacking IPs, but the company that owns them (Amazon S3) denied the attack ever happened.

    I also reported the server hosting their site to Hetzner, but I never heard back from them.

    Limestone mitigates the attacks, I am very happy with what they've done so far. They claim that they report all attacker's IPs, but I'm not too sure about that...

    Anyways, we can wait, sooner or later they'll give up. (And attacks have already became much less often).

  8. #33
    Join Date
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    222
    What size of the DDOS mean a "BIG" ddos ? >1G?

  9. #34
    Join Date
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    Location
    Argentina
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    Well ... Amazon was involve in a lot of troubles with DDoS attacks.. ( remember the attacks to the CIA ? and pentagon the last months ? and the issue with Sony PlaystationNetwork ? well lots of IPs was from Amazon...
    i think for a while Amazon will be seek when someone say the words DDoS.
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  10. #35
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeoio View Post
    What size of the DDOS mean a "BIG" ddos ? >1G?
    Well thats Depends .. Network .. Provider .. etc.

    For some Providers if you reach 1 Gbps of DDoS .. null route to the IP. they consider Big ddos problem that amount.

    Others give you in SLA more flexibility .. 5 Gbps 10 Gbps 15 Gbps.. thats depend of the Network Infraestructure.

    if you have your own switchs Firewalls.. routers.. etc. and your contract with your provider let you Handle this kind of problems .and you have the money to do that..

    remember the cost of the conectivity is expensive..


    so.. DDoS attacks with 1 Gbps of BW consumption .. would be Big for some people ... tiny for other...
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