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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    San Diego
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    3,407
    Watcher, why do you consider HR to be a "budget" host? I do not believe this to be the case. It is $14.95/mo plus a $29.00 setup. Hardly budget. In fact I would say they are above the standard in pricing.
    BeDifferentSolutions | "For when Indian-based solutions just won't do."
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  2. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,135
    Billy,

    They actually don't get many signups for any other plan than
    their 'Giga-Sale' plan which is $9.95/month.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    397
    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    ...their 'Giga-Sale' plan which is $9.95/month.
    ...when prepaid 2 years, plus $29.95 setup.

  4. #54
    Well their sale price, ( the one that ends today but the script just changes the date to tomorrow's date) places the cost per gig at .19 cents. Even at $14.95 that's only .29 a gig. Personally I would consider anything below 50 cents per gig to belong to the budget hosting market.

    As for the set up fee, that appears to only apply to the instant account set up feature but I could be wrong about that.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    925
    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    A couple years ago I was talking with a freind of mine about some recent business trends. I was questioning why he didn't open up more locations for his restaurant business since things were going so well at the time. He asked me this:

    Here are 3 items, if you could choose one of them and keep it, which would it be?

    1) 1 acre in the Northeast
    2) 25,000 acres in the South
    2) 50,000 acres in the Mid-West

    After I chose the 50,000 acres, he told me that the 1 acre was located in downtown New York City. The guy that posed this question to me is one of the principals of a chain of restaurants. That chain did over 1/4 of a billion dollars two years ago with just 50 locations.

    You can have the small city population and all that goes with it, I think I'll "survive" just fine with 1 acre....
    OK, so youre the acre in manhattan, and I'm 50k acres in the midwest I get it. My point is, that after its all said and done, I probably pay myself personally more than your company does in sales in a year, but hey whos counting, you got your acre I guess so you're happy and I'm wrong.

    I've got a little secret for you, your 'non budget' $5 a month plan, gives out more reources than my average giga-sale client uses. That means, with the same exact overhead, youre charging $5 a month. Run some math, and tell me who's working harder and whos working smarter.

    -Brendan

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,027
    Originally posted by HRBrendan
    . . . I for one am certainly not locked in my chair. I was much moreso when we were smaller.
    I hear that! I used to spend 18hours + per day, glued to the monitor. Now I'm flat out doing half that.
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
    Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,135
    Originally posted by HRBrendan
    OK, so youre the acre in manhattan, and I'm 50k acres in the midwest I get it. My point is, that after its all said and done, I probably pay myself personally more than your company does in sales in a year, but hey whos counting, you got your acre I guess so you're happy and I'm wrong.

    I've got a little secret for you, your 'non budget' $5 a month plan, gives out more reources than my average giga-sale client uses. That means, with the same exact overhead, youre charging $5 a month. Run some math, and tell me who's working harder and whos working smarter.

    -Brendan
    Well said!
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,027
    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    Ok, I'm done with this generally pointless arguement.
    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    Ok, now I'm done.

    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    I'm done with this.
    That's 3 strikes and you're out!!
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
    Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    397
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    That's 3 strikes and you're out!!
    LOL I noticed that.

    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    As for the set up fee, that appears to only apply to the instant account set up feature but I could be wrong about that.
    Appearances can be deceiving. The instant setup fee is manadatory, not optional. Ambiguous, yes.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,135
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob


    That's 3 strikes and you're out!! [/B]
    Sometimes I chase the bannana a bit to much

    ::moo::
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    I've got a little secret for you, your 'non budget' $5 a month plan, gives out more reources than my average giga-sale client uses. That means, with the same exact overhead, youre charging $5 a month. Run some math, and tell me who's working harder and whos working smarter.
    The key part of this statement is "than my average giga-sale client uses." not what you have actually sold them and promised to deliver. You've just validated the fact that there is no way you could ever provide all the resources that you sell to a giga client if all of them tried to use all of the resources they were allocated at the prices you sell those resources at.

    Since I don't base my profitability on how many people I pack on a server the math works differently than you are probably used to. I could very easily have every client use every bit they are allocated without suspending anyone for using excessive resources or playing the account shuffle between servers.

    That's just one of the many advantages of selling quality over quantity...

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    925
    1. I would put the quality of our hosting up against yours any day of the week, and confidently at that. I have a very good team of people working here 24/7/365 on site with the servers and on the helpdesk, and phone support 16 hours a day - changing to 24/day sometime next week.

    2. You are not smart enough to realize how the laws of averages work. I can not teach you this, and you will apparently never get it, so I will stop trying to explain to you why all the customers will not use every available resource at a given time.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    2. You are not smart enough to realize how the laws of averages work. I can not teach you this, and you will apparently never get it, so I will stop trying to explain to you why all the customers will not use every available resource at a given time.
    Oh I get it alright. I just choose not to expose my clients to the added risks involved.

    Big difference....

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    925
    law of averages

    n : a law affirming that in the long run probabilities will determine performance


    Notice it doesnt say 'theory of averages' or 'risks of averages'.

    -Brendan
    Last edited by HRBrendan; 01-28-2004 at 06:56 PM.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach CA
    Posts
    609
    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    You've just validated the fact that there is no way you could ever provide all the resources that you sell to a giga client if all of them tried to use all of the resources they were allocated at the prices you sell those resources at.
    You have no first-hand, internal knowledge of any part of our company. The resources are there, the finances are there, the plan is in place, and it's what we're offering. Why wouldn't we be able to provide the service is the users used their allotted bandwidth and space?

    You can give me numbers and figures based solely on your assumptions and absolutely nothing else, but the fact is you cannot accurately say without doubt that we can or cannot provide anything since you have no knowledge of our operations.

    HostRocket offerings all well-planned and calculated and that's one of the reasons that we are so successful.
    VOIPO - VoIP Telephone Service

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by HRTimothy
    The resources are there, the finances are there, the plan is in place, and it's what we're offering.
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    so I will stop trying to explain to you why all the customers will not use every available resource at a given time.
    Priceless....

    On that note I think I'll leave you both to do what it is you do....

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,407
    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    Billy,

    They actually don't get many signups for any other plan than
    their 'Giga-Sale' plan which is $9.95/month.
    Actually look again.

    $9.95/mo is not monthly. $14.95 is.

    This has nothing to do with HR pricing or business model. I am just pointing out that I do not consider HR to be "budget".

    Watcher, because someone decides to oversell more then the next guy, it doesn't make them "budget". C-I Host offers unlimited bandwidth (Yes, I know ) but they can't be considered budget.
    BeDifferentSolutions | "For when Indian-based solutions just won't do."
    *We hire, train and manage extremely skilled technical support employees for your business*
    US and European Based Representatives | Dedicated and Semi-Dedicated Options | Level 1/2/3 Skillsets
    Expertise Since 1999 | www.bedifferentsolutions.com | info@bedifferentsolutions.com

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by UmBillyCord
    Watcher, because someone decides to oversell more then the next guy,
    That's a valid point UBC....

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    925
    What you dont get, is overselling - when done properly - is to the advantage of the customer. It means that they can get more than they are paying for if they need it.

    -Brendan

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach CA
    Posts
    609
    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    Quote Originally Posted by HRTimothy
    The resources are there, the finances are there, the plan is in place, and it's what we're offering.
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    so I will stop trying to explain to you why all the customers will not use every available resource at a given time.
    Priceless....

    On that note I think I'll leave you both to do what it is you do....

    I don't see what's so priceless about those two statements. HostRocket has an obligation to provide what we are offering and my statement was merely implying that we have the resources to honor our offerings even if everyone did use their resources.

    Brendan's statement was simply saying that no everyone will use all of their resources. That's a given with any business model. His statment did not mean that we couldn't back our offerings.

    If they do use the resources, we CAN still provide the service. So why would those two statments together be priceless?

    It's extremely sad when a specific user single-handedly turns the innocent discussion regarding a debatable issue into a thread attacking a specific company.
    VOIPO - VoIP Telephone Service

  21. #71
    Attacking a company? Brendan asked the question which started this and I answered it. He knew what my reponse would be he's heard it before.

    There are very real risks involved with overselling that have been discussed in great detail before. I get it, however I choose not to engage in the practice of overselling.

    This isn't a thread about overselling and I won't help turn this into one.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    570
    Edit: Nevermind.
    Last edited by aldee; 01-28-2004 at 09:47 PM.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,004
    This would make a good reality TV show. Watch web hosts duke it out as they compare business plans!

    It'd compliment all the other reality TV shows

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    1,446
    My opinion on the original poster's question...
    If you are small, focusing on quality can help you make a name for your company, and differentiate your business from the so called "big hosts". Big budget hosts that focus on quantity often have high ad budgets, use some form of outsourcing or lower paid tech support, and do not offer much assistance outside of their defined support levels. They also often have working capital to sustain losses in the beginning.

    For a small or just starting out host, trying to compete in this arena (at least initially) is quite difficult. If you work on quality hosting, personalized service, unique features, etc..., you will be able to carve out a niche with respect to your services. This in turn can lead to good word of mouth advertising, which grows from there.

    After becoming established (however you define this), you then have to decide if you will grow in the same manner (organic growth through sustained quality service and word of mouth and/or strategic partnerships), or wish to try the "big time" with quantity. Quality often results in slower growth (numbers wise, not overall profit wise), which can be good to be able to manage things effectively on a small scale without sacrificing the quality you have built. If you want to remain a small company (numbers wise, not profit wise), then keeping the focus on quality is a good way to go.

    If, on the other hand, you want to be Bill Gates, Robert Marsh, etc... and have hundreds of thousands of clients, and a staff of 50 to manage, then budget hosting is one way to achieve this. Just realize that the path is not an easy one, and your competitors will be working very hard to not allow you to break in and take their slice of the pie. In the big scheme of things, very few make it to this level, although many do try (and often fail).

    Contrast this with the large number of successful small hosting companies that focus on quality and do quite well, and the odds are often better going this route.

    I'm not knocking either decision, although I am biased towards the quality side of the equation. We've been doing this since 1995, and have found a successful way to grow and yet still remain "small". I'd put our net profit % up against any other hosting business any day, and feel confident we could outmatch most based on a model of quality over quantity.

    - John C.

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