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  1. #1

    What kind of connection do I need?

    I used to run a web hosting business about 10 years ago, and I'm thinking about getting back into the game. Obviously alot has changed since then. In the past I leased a dedicated server, this time I'd like to have my own little data center.

    I already have a 2500sq ft commercial building with 3 phase power and heavy duty cooling. The question is what kind of internet line would I need to get to reliably host websites? I'm looking at "ethernet" services from both Frontier and Comcast, (I'm in Oregon) is this what I need? What does a line like that cost and what are the speeds? I would post a link but the board won't let me.

    Both companies want me to call for a "consultation", but I'm still in the very early planning stages....

  2. #2
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    Several Gigabit links at the minimum, from more than one provider for redundancy and load balancing purposes

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
    Several Gigabit links at the minimum, from more than one provider for redundancy and load balancing purposes
    The question is where do I buy such a thing? Is that what the ethernet services are for?

  4. #4
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    Well, check with your provider and see if their Ethernet services are Gigabit or 100mbps or what?

  5. #5
    On Comcast's website they say they offer 10mbps to 1gbps in 1mbps increments. I'm thinking this is something I could use as I grow? I don't think I really need to start out with 1gbps, 100mbps should do, shouldn't it?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
    On Comcast's website they say they offer 10mbps to 1gbps in 1mbps increments. I'm thinking this is something I could use as I grow? I don't think I really need to start out with 1gbps, 100mbps should do, shouldn't it?
    If comcasthave fiber close enough to your facility and will build out, then they could be a provider for you. You will need another provider though as you will have a tough time finding customers being single homed. I wouldnt ever suggest using frontier.

    Also 100mbps may be enough if you are selling 10mbps ports. If you are selling 100mbps anything, with any amount of customers, 100mbps alone wont be enough. Not to mention the cost of a good network setup.

    This question in one form or another gets asks a few times a month and at some point they usually (hopefully) come to the realization its not feasible. You are almost always better off renting a cage somewhere and selling out of it.

  7. #7
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    I would recommend starting with co-location in an established data center and when you're ready you can grow into a facility of your own. Managing a facility as a startup will not be an easy/inexpensive task. There are a bunch of past threads on this - I would take a look at them.
    [QuickPacket™] [AS46261]
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  8. #8
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    You asked "reliably host websites", you should be looking at http://he.net or http://nlayer.net

    Or possibly just co-locating. You're going to need more than one bandwidth provider and redundant power.


  9. #9
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    Hello Number,

    first best of luck, but trying to build datacentar is SO much more then just trying to buy "connection" to your "space" that you want to setup for small DC

    There is cooling, batteries, multiple power feeds, security, this that, another 100 things I cant even think of.

    I recommend you visit this link - http://www.telehouse.com/modulardatacenter.php

    There is also BLOG somewhere on this board, with person who built small-ish DC - and posted progress (as well problems), basicly, there is zilion things you need to consider, and this is not something you shoul do alone. You can spend few milions in blink, and make few mistakes in process as well.
    SubHosting.net – Managed dedicated and VPS servers.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldude919 View Post
    This question in one form or another gets asks a few times a month and at some point they usually (hopefully) come to the realization its not feasible. You are almost always better off renting a cage somewhere and selling out of it.
    I absolutely agree with this... forget all about that Data Center dream of yours for now, start off small then scale out later smartly as business takes off

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
    On Comcast's website they say they offer 10mbps to 1gbps in 1mbps increments. I'm thinking this is something I could use as I grow? I don't think I really need to start out with 1gbps, 100mbps should do, shouldn't it?
    You might need the full gig to entice them to build in your DC. They see dollar sighs and need it to be profitable for them. It's not the same as a regular home or office WAN connection. You might want to talk with, meet with and work with people who own and/or operate a DC. There's much more involved than you realize.

    And yes this topic comes up regularly. I recommend searching for similar threads.

  12. #12
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    Here is the link to blog: http://ctdoh.tumblr.com

    Very good read.
    SubHosting.net – Managed dedicated and VPS servers.
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  13. #13
    Thanks for the replies. I understand there is alot to this, but you also have to consider I'm wanting to start up with just one server. (and a backup) Firstly I need and want to host my own website and can host a few friends to get started.

    The major thing is I already have a commercial building mostly going to waste. I am only using a tiny fraction of my space, having servers would compliment it nicely. I spend a lot of money just on heat most of the year, so free heat from the computers would be welcomed. The building is a perfect environment for a data center, lots of power, cool, safe, secure, and right next to a substation. I'm pretty sure I can get fiber optic lines there being a newer building in an industrial area.

    I have been searching my brains out here and reading alot. I may start with a simple business FIOS connection just for practice and hosting my own website. This is the link I was trying to post to comcast before:
    http://business.comcast.com/enterpri...cated-internet
    Is that the kind of connection I would need (multiple of) for "real" hosting? What kind of ballpark are we talking for cost?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I understand there is alot to this, but you also have to consider I'm wanting to start up with just one server. (and a backup) Firstly I need and want to host my own website and can host a few friends to get started.


    [...]
    I know many successful data centers that only host a single server for the first several years, don't listen to naysayers!

    Start off with a 4G enabled phone (3G if you cant get 4G in your area), and hook the PC directly up to it. This is the secret the rest of the forum often tries to hide (but can naturally be found as the ultimate answer to these threads, if you search!). It gives you the best redundancy, since some guy with a backhoe cant accidentally dig up your signal while digging a ditch, etc.

    If you ever loose connectivity, just reboot the phone to get back online VIA another tower. You can hook up phones from multiple telco's and setup load balancing for cheap with dyndns and similar services.

  15. #15
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    porcupine that was actually very funny
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEMON View Post
    porcupine that was actually very funny
    I wasn't going for humor though, thats actually how the pro's do it!

    If he searched, he'd know this!

  17. #17
    porcupine, if you have nothing useful to add, don't bother responding.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
    porcupine, if you have nothing useful to add, don't bother responding.
    It is very difficult to take this thread seriously. You obviously haven't done your research. You haven't told us how you are going to pay for routers, switches, and bandwidth when you have no customers. Bandwidth usually costs $50 to $100 per mbps plus a few thousand dollars for setup. You will need at least one person to man the datacenter 24x7. Can you afford that?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by h4wk View Post
    You haven't told us how you are going to pay for routers, switches, and bandwidth when you have no customers. Bandwidth usually costs $50 to $100 per mbps plus a few thousand dollars for setup. You will need at least one person to man the datacenter 24x7. Can you afford that?
    I'm not poor, like I said I already have a commercial building with a business inside. Yes I have the money to do what I want. Everybody starts out with no customers.

    $100 per mbps? I think you're a little off.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I understand there is alot to this, but you also have to consider I'm wanting to start up with just one server. (and a backup) Firstly I need and want to host my own website and can host a few friends to get started.
    If you're starting with one server, then you should just look to do colocation with a decent provider. Once you get large enough where you feel you could benefit from dedicated resources, talk to folks like Dupont Fabros or Digital Realty Trust about getting your own pod. Having someone else manage the power and cooling (especially when you don't have a background in HVAC or Electricity) is not only important, but a lifesaver when it comes to liability.
    LionLink Networks
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4wk View Post
    bandwidth when you have no customers. Bandwidth usually costs $50 to $100 per mbps plus a few thousand dollars for setup. You will need at least one person to man the datacenter 24x7. Can you afford that?
    Bandwidth is typically not that expensive when dealing in large comits. However, if you are in the middle of nowhere Oregon, I could see it being that expensive.

    For example, in the Ashburn Market, you could get Cogent or HE at about 0.50Mbps with the right kind of commit (like 10gig). But go to Denver and "cheap" would be considered $25 - $50/Mbps.

    All depends on the provider and the market you're in. The more connectivity dense, the less expensive connectivity is.

    And lastly... if you're just a decent sys-admin... focus on what you do best... sys-admin. Get dedicated servers at a reputable provider, or buy servers and colo them with a reputable provider, and be a sys-admin.

    Things you need to ask yourself:

    -Why would someone colo in Oregon?
    -Why would someone choose to colo with a provider that doesn't know the basics of bandwidth?
    -Why would someone choose to colo with a provider that doesn't have a strong background in HVAC and Electric?
    -Just because the building has "a lot of cooling" doesn't mean that's Data Center Cooling. Are there water chillers, CRAC units, RTU's, I mean how is the cooling being done?
    -You say you're not poor, are you prepared to dump 10 Million, if not more, into the buildout, equipment costs (generators, switch gear, UPS, PDUs, Rack PDU's, Rack's, Floor Tiles, Raised floor install, Networking Equipment, Cabling, fiber build out, etc), labor costs, 24x7 security, 24x7 on-site operations (for emergency HVAC/Electricity situations)?

    There is so much involved in building a data center, you're not getting serious responses because people read your post as someone who may not even have the basic knowledge needed to do it.
    Last edited by lionlink-dot-net; 05-06-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lionlink-dot-net View Post
    -Why would someone colo in Oregon?
    What's wrong with Oregon? There are already some big colocation providers in the Portland area where I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionlink-dot-net View Post
    -Why would someone choose to colo with a provider that doesn't know the basics of bandwidth?
    -Why would someone choose to colo with a provider that doesn't have a strong background in HVAC and Electric?
    -Just because the building has "a lot of cooling" doesn't mean that's Data Center Cooling.
    Do you think I'm going to post these questions on my website for everyone to view? You don't know what my company is, and it's going to stay that way. I'm not planning on being a colo provider. I'm only planning on offering shared hosting, VPS, and maybe DS. Nobody is going to ask about my HVAC system. And yes I do know a lot about HVAC and electrical. (note I haven't asked any questions about that part)

    Again, we're talking about starting with one computer here. Maybe "data center" is the wrong word. It doesn't need "data center cooling", it just needs average climate control and an extension cord. When I have 50 of them things will have to be upgraded, but I'd also be making money at that point. I have plenty of power in the building for future growth.

    I'm not a complete idiot. I have run a successful hosting company in the past, and I made a lot of money. I just want to do it differently this time. Alot has changed since I was last in the business.

  23. #23
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    Forgive us for assuming you were trying to offer a collocation service.... Given that you posted in a collocation forum? ;-)

    If you think customers will not ask about your environment, then you're one lucky provider. Companies like soft layer didn't earn their client's trust by thinking 'oh no one will ever ask about cooling'.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by lionlink-dot-net View Post
    Forgive us for assuming you were trying to offer a collocation service.... Given that you posted in a collocation forum? ;-)
    It's also the data center forum.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionlink-dot-net View Post

    Companies like soft layer didn't earn their client's trust by thinking 'oh no one will ever ask about cooling'.
    SoftLayer is a smart company and "outsource" their Data Center needs to professional investement companies like Digital Reality Trust who builds the the Data Center and then SoftLayer can move in and scale up as the growth comes to their business and bottom-line... that's the way to do it smartly

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