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  1. #1

    Canadian-American Relations

    Well - I'm posting this for my brother so here it is.

    I know how many of you have different views on these because I've seen some of the great debates on these topics here. I'm posting here because I want to get a non-biased idea of every one's view on the recent and past events.

    How do you feel about Canadian-American relations ever since the 9/11 terrorist attack? This also includes the recent war in Iraq. How do you feel about how some Americans are viewed by Canadians and how some Canadians do not like the US government? How do you feel about the fact that Canada didn't go into Iraq with the US? How do you feel about the killing of Canadian ground troops in error? If there is anything else you want to add to this please do.

    These are all views that will appear on an essay and he was in need of some opinions of everyday people. All comments are appreciated and you will get credit for what you say.

    Thanks guys,
    Matt

  2. #2
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    Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by MyMody
    How do you feel about Canadian-American relations ever since the 9/11 terrorist attack? This also includes the recent war in Iraq. How do you feel about how some Americans are viewed by Canadians and how some Canadians do not like the US government? How do you feel about the fact that Canada didn't go into Iraq with the US? How do you feel about the killing of Canadian ground troops in error? If there is anything else you want to add to this please do.
    Canadian's got slapped in the face after 9/11. On 9/11, the USA needed to re-direct all flights coming into the USA, to other countries. We could have told them where to go, but we helped out as much as we could. When it came to giving thanks, Bush thanked Mexico, Britian, etc, but forget's to mention us. I'm happy we didn't goto Iraq, i'm sure if you took a poll in canada about going to iraq, the numbers would be like 80% think it's a dumb war.

    Those soldiers got away with a slap on the rist as usual, kinda like the whole prison thing too. Oh no! they loose a couple months pay, or something dumb like that. You know, killing people or abusing people doesn't deserve prison time, that's too extreme.

    Most of the people in parliment think Bush is a dork anyways, look at that lady who stomped on the Bush doll. The only reason she got kicked out was 'cuz she took a stab at her own party, not 'cuz of what she said about Monkey man.

    TO add onto the whole topic, look at the soft-wood deal. WTO and everyone else says that it's a illegal tarrif on us, but they don't care.

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  3. #3
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    I won't weigh in on all of those but will share my opinion on a few.

    1. Not all Canadians dislike the US Government. Just like not all Americans like their own government. Sometimes it is blown out of proportion that Canadians hate Americans and such. I don't have a problem with 99.99% of Americans and I am sure that feeling is mutual coming back. Their are always a few in a crowd that are a pain and cause problems but that shouldn't be the ones that are looked at.

    2. Canada not going to Iraq I don't think was the problem, since we have barely any military. What I think they really wanted was us to "support" the war. Secondly on that subject the Canadian military has been in Afghanistan which has allowed the US to free up some of their military to go over to Iraq so in a way that is something we could realistically help with and therefore I think that is a farce saying we aren't helping the US.


    3. As far as the Canadian soldiers being killed by US bombs in Afghanistan that sort of left a bitter taste in my mouth. More because they received very little punishment whereas if a Canadian had dropped the bombs on the US we probably would have been invaded. That last part was a bit sarcastic but it wouldn't have been left at just a slap on the wrist.

    4. I think the thing that has a lot of Canadians irked is a few trade related issues. Things like the softwood lumber and madcow situations. Canada/US/Mexico signed NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) however the US only goes by it whenever it works for them, even after world trade organization I believe it was said what they were doing is illegal they continued to do it. With the madcow scare a year or so ago they shut down all trade and put a lot of cattle farmers in a tough spot, even after things had settled down. Again with both of these situations the question I ask is what would the US have done if we had put tariffs on their softwood lumber or closed the border to cattle..

    Anyway I have no problem with US citizens, just a few silly choices the government makes now and then..

    Hope this helps your brother out a bit.
    Greg Lubbelinkhof

  4. #4
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    My answers are of course my PERSONAL opinions. If they offend you, I don't represent all of my country.

    Q: "How do you feel about Canadian-American relations ever since the 9/11 terrorist attack? "


    A: Since 9/11, I hold some feelings of resentment to the US general public. IMO, not enough questions were asked, people have just seemed to accept what the media and their president have said on the matter. The whole event reeks of government knowledge and/or involvement (also see JFK assasination) Call me a conspiracy theorist as you will, but if you stop looking and asking, then you're just another victim to the TV set.


    Q: "How do you feel about how some Americans are viewed by Canadians and how some Canadians do not like the US government?"

    A: I've experienced first hand the resentment from some Americans because I'm a Canadian and my Prime Minister said 'no' to involvement in Iraq. Jokes were flying about how useless Canada is (calling it a 51st state, and American tree storage) this ignorance was upsetting, but I wouldn't allow it to change my views on an entire nation because of a few imbiciles. I was VERY proud of Cretian to stand up and say 'no' to Bush, to send the message that the UN serves a purpose and to circumvent it is not something to endorse.

    I for one think the Bush administration is the worst thing to ever happen to America. He is a war monger, and a liar. He sought UN backing/approval to go into Iraq (forgetting about Bin Laden) and when the UN denied it, the US did it anyway. In reflection of the recent election, TERRORISM/FEAR was a big part of the campaign, how does one explain that Bush lost New York, the place hardest hit by terrorism by a staggering 80% margin? Or how about losing Washington by the same margin.


    Q: "How do you feel about the killing of Canadian ground troops in error? "

    A: A tradgedy, nothing more. It was a horrible accident, and there is always collateral damage in war.

  5. #5
    I agree with the fact that Canadians hate Americans is blown way out of proportion. I have nothing against the American people they have never done anything wrong to me. I can't say so much about their government though. I respect bush because he is Pro-Life and against gay marriage. Though I dislike alot of the choices he has made.

    Anyways, thanks for the replies guys and keep them coming!

  6. #6
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    Let's put it this way:

    Nova Scotian officials are fearing public outrage when Bush come here shortly.

    He's coming to "thank" those who assisted after 9/11.

    Little known fact:
    The netting that was shipped to ground zero for protection and clean up, was given by a Nova Scotian firm, down on the south coast (not far from where I live). A large majority of the flights on that day, were also diverted here.

    I think Bush should keep his speech here very short and sweet, he's not very liked around these parts, for the same reason posted by Greg (#3).

    When Cretien refused to send troops out to assist Bush in his war, Canadians were subjected to ridiculous abuse, commerce wise. Truckers were deliberately held up (and sometimes turned away) at the borders. All this, simply because a large majority of Canadians (including the then-PM) disagreed with Bush's war.

    20k war protesters are expected in Ottawa, according to CBC News.

    US citizens are very much welcomed here, Bush however, is not.

    Simon
    Last edited by IHSL; 11-26-2004 at 02:29 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by MyMody
    I can't say so much about their government though. I respect bush because he is Pro-Life and against gay marriage. Though I dislike alot of the choices he has made.

    And that is the exact reason I like him. Go figure.
    Greg Lubbelinkhof

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by kanadian
    I was VERY proud of Cretian to stand up and say 'no' to Bush, to send the message that the UN serves a purpose and to circumvent it is not something to endorse.
    As you should be. Cretian was a amazing guy, did a fantastic job and actually had a backbone. I'm working for the local MP, Gary Lunn over here in Victoria, BC, and he's said to us that Cretian was too good of a guy to be in politics, and it's true!

    You could always trust the guy in knowing that what he does, he does to truely make canada a better place. I look at Martin and -know- he's a rat. You can just hear/see it when he's on TV and such, he's this close to selling Canada out. The guy has no backbone what so ever, and feels that he's trying to make the USA/Canada relations better.

    Before monkey man got into power, Clinton and Cretian were great. They got along fine, never bashed each other (After Cretian left, Bush had the balls to say "I can at least talk with this one").

    Oh how we need the leaders of the past back in power...

    ~Francisco
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by DeltaAnime
    As you should be. Cretian was a amazing guy, did a fantastic job and actually had a backbone. I'm working for the local MP, Gary Lunn over here in Victoria, BC, and he's said to us that Cretian was too good of a guy to be in politics, and it's true!

    Are we talking about the same guy here?

    The guy that was in power for the sponsorship scandal. The guy who acted like a dictator? I know it isn't his fault about the stroke but he was embarassing as a leader, and not just because of his speach but because everytime I ever listened to him he made no sense, even if you could understand the words.

    I very much disagree with you on Adolf Chretien.
    Greg Lubbelinkhof

  10. #10
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    The Anti-American sentiment in Canada that people tend to feel is more directed at the Government than at the actual people. This may change now due to the fact that the American people voted in Bush once again under the auspices that he's a man of the faith, and yet the Majority of Canadians feel that this is nothing but political hypocrisy at its finest.

    Canada-US relations since 9/11 have really gone down hill. And this first began after 9/11 when Bush neglected to thank the Canadians for the support they provided during such a difficult time.

    The deline continued when Canada, having committed troops to Afghanistan was slapped with a 30% duty on all softwood lumber. What happened to Free Trade?

    Things got worse when Caroline Parish started opening her big mouth. And then you have the friendly fire incident, the refusal to support a war in Iraq, refusal to sign on to the missile defense system....

    Cooperation between our two countries has always been cordial, but it only got nasty when war entered the picture. This issue alone is something that Americans and Canadians are very polarized on. And let's not forget the issues of abortion, gay marriage....etc....At this point in history we are very different than Americans in our point of view. Canadians in general take the liberal view over the conservative - even if we were to vote in a Conservative gov't - it wouldn't be due to moral reasons.

    This is the viewpoint of Canadians - ask anyone in Europe, and its not just the government they hate, but American's in general.

    Not to make this into a political thread but.....the fact that the divide between church and state in this current election has become rather blurred, I don't blame people for wanting to immigrate to Canada, especially when it appears the Bush administration is shaping the US into an exclusively Christian Club, not by his actions, but by what he has stood for.

    If this continues, along with the killing of muslims, I could honestly see a war between the religious groups of Christianity and Islam. (Complements to Bill Mahr for that insight)

    ok....i'm done
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by hometownhosting
    Are we talking about the same guy here?

    The guy that was in power for the sponsorship scandal. The guy who acted like a dictator? I know it isn't his fault about the stroke but he was embarassing as a leader, and not just because of his speach but because everytime I ever listened to him he made no sense, even if you could understand the words.

    I very much disagree with you on Adolf Chretien.
    Actually, Chretien did a great job when he first became PM - but he clearly overstayed his welcome after winning that third election. If he had stepped down after his second term was over, he would have left quite a legacy.

    The things that tarnished his record happened in his third term - somehow he wasn't all there in the head.
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Hostkookster
    Actually, Chretien did a great job when he first became PM - but he clearly overstayed his welcome after winning that third election. If he had stepped down after his second term was over, he would have left quite a legacy.

    The things that tarnished his record happened in his third term - somehow he wasn't all there in the head.
    That might be more true. I wasn't an avid political watcher in his first 2 terms really.
    Greg Lubbelinkhof

  13. #13
    I just want to state for the record that I have never had any relations with a Canadian, they seem like they'd be cold

  14. #14
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    Yes we Canadians need to stick together against those grimey Americans.. Fine I'm not Canadian.. yet.

    I can't stand what the US government does sometimes and I honestly can't understand why anyone would reelect BUsh. All I can say is if the Canadians have any hard feelings for us blowing up their troops or taking them for granted.. I feel your pain as a citizen of the US.

  15. #15
    I do not get too bothered by Canada. Some of them are ok people. I have served in the Armed Forces with some, and they were great people. I have been to BC a few times... good people.... crappy smokes, funny roads, silly police, OK beer. Some of the womern were not bad looking either, They make a great lil place for us to vacation to. Is is a cute place. Not a bad place at all. I enjoy Whistler and Van.
    Glenn

    More info on their contributions:


    Canada

    Canada provided the first coalition Task Group to arrive in CENTCOM AOR.

    Backgrounder

    The Canadian Forces' Contribution to the International Campaign Against Terrorism BG–02.001m - August 6, 2003

    On the morning of September 11, 2001, terrorists hijacked four American commercial passenger aircraft. Two were flown into the twin towers of the World Trade Centre in New York City; the third struck the Pentagon in Washington D.C.; and the fourth crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. No one aboard the aircraft survived.

    The United States launched an international campaign against terrorism, to which the Canadian Forces (CF) is making a significant contribution.

    Operation SUPPORT

    Operation SUPPORT was Canada’s first response to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

    Its first priority was to provide for the passengers and crew of aircraft diverted to Canadian airfields when civil aviation was grounded all over North America. Re-routed travellers and flight crews were hosted at Canadian Forces (CF) facilities in Goose Bay, Gander and Stephenville, Newfoundland; Halifax, Shearwater and Aldershot, Nova Scotia; Winnipeg, Manitoba; and Yellowknife, Northwest Territories.

    Its second priority was to increase the level of emergency preparedness so the CF could respond quickly to requests for humanitarian assistance. The replenishment ship HMCS Preserver, the destroyer HMCS Iroquois and the frigate HMCS Ville de Québec were placed at a heightened state of readiness and prepared to sail to any U.S. port if required to help victims of further attacks. The Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART), which is trained and organized to provide emergency humanitarian support in the event of a disaster, was made ready to deploy from 8 Wing Trenton, Ontario. Canada’s NORAD commitment was increased by the addition of CF-18 fighter aircraft placed at strategic locations throughout the country. Finally, CF intelligence capabilities were made available to the United States.

    Operation APOLLO

    How It Began

    Operation APOLLO, Canada’s military contribution to the campaign against terrorism, was a significant manifestation of our commitment to our allies, and to international security.

    * September 12: The UN Security Council issued Resolution 1368, condemning the attacks of September 11, offering deepest sympathy to the American people, and reaffirming the right of member nations (expressed in Article 51 of the UN Charter) to individual and collective self-defence. It also urged the world community to suppress terrorism and hold accountable all who aid, support or harbour the perpetrators, organizers and sponsors of terrorist acts, and stated that the UN was prepared to combat all forms of terrorism.
    * September 20: Minister of National Defence Art Eggleton authorized more than 100 CF members serving on military exchange programs in the U.S. and other allied nations to participate in operations conducted by their host units in response to the September 11 terrorist attacks.
    * September 28: The UN Security Council issued Resolution 1373, setting out the methods by which member states were to root out terrorists and terrorist organizations, and deprive terrorists of the funds and materials necessary to conduct their operations.
    * October 4: NATO Secretary General Lord Robertson announced that, in response to the terrorist attacks in the U.S., the North Atlantic Council (NATO’s senior advisory body) was invoking Article 5 of the Treaty of Washington, which states that any attack on a NATO nation launched from outside that nation shall be interpreted as an attack on all the NATO nations.
    * October 7:
    o Prime Minister Jean Chrétien announced that Canada would contribute air, land and sea forces to the international force being formed to conduct a campaign against terrorism.
    o General Ray Henault, the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), issued warning orders to several CF units.
    o Op APOLLO was established in support of the U.S. initiative code-named Operation ENDURING FREEDOM.
    * October 8: Minister Eggleton announced the first CF commitments under Op APOLLO, which involved about 2,000 CF members. Navy ships were the first CF units to participate in the campaign against terrorism, and they began deploying immediately.

    Command and Control in Operation APOLLO: Canadian Joint Task Force South West Asia (CA JTFSWA)

    The CF units and formations committed to Op APOLLO are organized under the Commander, Canadian Joint Task Force South West Asia (CA JTFSWA). The headquarters of the CA JTFSWA is the Canadian National Command Element (NCE), employing approximately 60 CF members, co-located with U.S. Central Command (CENCOM) at MacDill Air Force Base near Tampa, Florida. The NCE links the Chief of the Defence Staff with U.S. CENCOM and the various CF units assigned to Op APOLLO.

    By end-August 2003, following the re-alignment of Canadian activities in southwest Asia, the NCE will be reduced to a liaison staff.

    Changes of Command

    October 2001–April 2002: Commodore Jean-Pierre Thiffault
    April–November 2002: Brigadier-General Michel Gauthier
    November 2002–May 2003: Brigadier-General Angus Watt
    May 2003–present: Brigadier-General Dennis Tabbernor

    Navy

    Canada was the first coalition nation after the U.S. to deploy a naval task group into the U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) area of responsibility, which stretches from the Horn of Africa to Central Asia. At its peak in January 2002, the Canadian Naval Task Group comprised six warships and about 1,500 Navy personnel.

    Chronology of Ship Deployments

    October 8, 2001–February 11, 2002: HMCS Halifax
    December 5, 2001–May 27, 2002: HMCS Toronto
    September 4, 2001–March 4, 2002: HMCS Charlottetown
    October 17, 2001–April 27, 2002: HMCS Iroquois, HMCS Preserver
    November 12, 2001–May 28, 2002: HMCS Vancouver
    February 17–August 17, 2002: HMCS Ottawa
    March 23–October 14, 2002: HMCS Algonquin
    May 1–November 14, 2002: HMCS St. John’s
    May 22–October 21, 2002: HMCS Protecteur
    September 9, 2002–April 2, 2003: HMCS Montreal
    September 16, 2002–April 7, 2003: HMCS Winnipeg
    February 2–May 19, 2003: HMCS Regina
    February 24–July 5, 2003: HMCS Iroquois
    March 5–Aug 4, 2003: HMCS Fredericton
    August 1, 2003-present: HMCS Calgary

    Changes of Command

    February 7, 2003–June 15, 2003: Commodore Roger Girouard commanded Coalition Task Force 151.

    Key Operational Focuses

    The Canadian ships deployed on Op APOLLO participate in force-protection operations, fleet-support operations, leadership interdiction operations, and maritime interdiction operations. On arrival in the north Arabian Sea, they are integrated into a coalition formation.

    * Force-protection operations: Heavily armed, manoeuvrable warships such as Canada’s destroyers and frigates provide defensive capabilities to the more vulnerable specialized vessels in the multinational coalition fleet.
    * Fleet-support operations: The replenishment ships HMCS Preserver and HMCS Protecteur have both cruised the Arabian Gulf and the Arabian Sea at different times to replenish ships of the coalition fleet at sea. Replenishment ships are crucial to sustaining coalition naval operations; as well as food and essential materiel such as fuel, ammunition and replacement parts, they provide the other ships of the fleet with specialized services such as health care and engineering expertise. During their time in theatre, HMCS Preserver and HMCS Protecteur conducted more than 200 replenishment at sea (RAS) operations.
    * Leadership interdiction operations: To prevent Al-Qaeda and Taliban members from escaping the area of operations in merchant ships and fishing boats operating from Pakistan and Iran, Canadian ships hail vessels, identify them, pursue and board them when necessary, and search them for material and activity indicating the presence of Al-Qaeda or Taliban members.
    * Maritime interdiction operations: Since the beginning of Op APOLLO, Canadian ships have hailed more than 21,800 vessels. To date, Canadian ships have performed more than 50 percent of the 1,100 boardings conducted by the multinational coalition fleet.

    Significant Events

    * Patrolling Canadian ships are sometimes called on for humanitarian interventions. HMCS Vancouver came to the aid of a disabled dhow carrying 45 dehydrated people who had been adrift at sea for about a week with nothing to eat or drink. After receiving first aid, food, water and engineering assistance from the frigate, passengers and crew were able to resume their journey in the dhow. In March 2002, the crew of HMCS Preserver also saved lives when they rescued two severely dehydrated Arab sailors found adrift in a disabled vessel.
    * In July 2002, HMCS Algonquin co-operated with CF marine patrol aircraft and a French warship to apprehend four suspected Al-Qaeda members. On July 13, 2002 and July 17, 2002, boarding parties from HMCS Algonquin detained suspects and handed them over to U.S. forces.
    * On October 31, 2002, HMCS Montréal intercepted and boarded a cargo vessel bound for Iraq. On searching the cargo, the boarding party discovered suspicious materiel, including five 24-metre patrol boats that appeared to be in violation of the United Nations Security Council Resolutions against Iraq. The vessel was turned over to another coalition ship in the region for a thorough investigation.
    * On May 23, 2003, HMCS Fredericton rescued two crewmen from the fishing vessel Al Safa who had been severely burned in a galley fire. The burned men were stabilized aboard the frigate by the physician’s assistant, and taken ashore to hospital in the frigate’s Sea King helicopter.

    Army

    Deployment of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group

    In mid-November 2001, the U.S. asked its coalition partners (including Canada) to provide ground troops for a stabilization force to be deployed in areas secured by the Northern Alliance to facilitate distribution of humanitarian relief and supplies to the people of Afghanistan. Canada immediately placed 1,000 members of the Immediate Reaction Force (Land) (IRF(L)) on 48 hours’ notice to deploy. The IRF(L) is highly suitable for evolving operations; it is a light, fully mobile force designed to respond quickly to overseas missions. At that time, it was drawn mostly from the highly trained Edmonton and Winnipeg-based battalions of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry.

    The situation on the ground in Afghanistan changed significantly during November and December 2001; consequently, Canada’s troop commitment was revised to a contingent of about 750 soldiers to deploy to Kandahar as part of a U.S. Army task force built around the 187th Brigade Combat Team. In January 2002, Canada agreed to deploy the 3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry (3 PPCLI) Battle Group, which included a reconnaissance squadron from Lord Strathcona’s Horse (Royal Canadians) (LdSH(RC)), and combat service support elements from 1 Service Battalion. During their six months in Afghanistan, the soldiers of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group performed tasks ranging from airfield security to combat.

    The deployment of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group significantly increased the number of CF personnel directly involved in Op APOLLO. It also represented another important contribution of direct support to Op ENDURING FREEDOM, and demonstrated yet again the importance of interoperability with our allies.

    The LdSH(RC) reconnaissance squadron was equipped with Canadian-made Coyote armoured reconnaissance vehicles, which our U.S. allies specifically requested for this mission. With a top speed of 100 kilometres per hour and the ability to climb a 60-degree slope, the Coyote is well suited to terrain such as that of Afghanistan. It also has high-technology surveillance and long-range detection systems comprising state-of-the-art optics, thermal imagery, image intensifiers, surveillance radar, and laser range-finders.

    The 3 PPCLI Battle Group returned home after six months of service in Afghanistan. The redeployment was announced on June 21, 2002, and the troops arrived back in Canada in two contingents on July 28 and July 30. This troop movement was co-ordinated with the scheduled rotation of American troops to permit the 3 PPCLI Battle Group to travel by American airlift.

    Security Platoon

    On March 14, 2003, a platoon of about 35 soldiers from the 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, based in Edmonton, Alberta, deployed to the Arabian Gulf region to provide local security to CF units deployed on Op APOLLO. The deployment of the security platoon is part of a Force Protection Plan. In July 2003, soldiers from the 1st Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery based at Canadian Forces Base Shilo, Manitoba, replaced the Patricias.

    Significant Events

    * Operation ANACONDA: During March 2002, members of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group were in the mountains of Paktia Province east of Gardez on Op ANACONDA, a U.S.-led coalition effort to search the mountains for Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters, capture them, and destroy their shelters. The Canadian contingent comprised 16 soldiers, including six snipers and an emergency extraction force of medical, security and transport personnel with vehicles specialized for winter operations. These soldiers came under fire and engaged the enemy; as a result, some Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters were killed. The coalition force met with determined resistance, and the enemy demonstrated that they were well organized and well supplied. Throughout Op ANACONDA, the Canadian sniper teams were noted for the deadly accuracy with which they suppressed enemy mortar and heavy machine-gun positions. They are credited with preventing or stopping attacks that could have taken the lives of many coalition soldiers.
    * Operation HARPOON: In the early hours of March 13, 2002, the coalition launched a separate offensive operation in roughly the same region as Op ANACONDA. This new mission, called Op HARPOON, was a joint Canadian-American assault using land and air forces to eliminate a specific pocket of Taliban and Al-Qaeda resistance. The land component was a battalion-sized mixed Canadian and American force under the tactical command of Lieutenant-Colonel Pat Stogran, the commanding officer of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group. On March 14, 2002, LCol Stogran’s Canadian reconnaissance troops led one of his American platoons to a cave-and-bunker complex where the Americans proceeded to destroy several bunkers. Op HARPOON was completed on March 19, 2002.
    * The Tarnak Farm Incident: After Op HARPOON, the 3 PPCLI Battle Group returned to camp at Kandahar International Airport to resume their security duties and train for other taskings. On April 17, 2002, an aerial bomb was accidentally dropped during a live-fire exercise at Tarnak Farm, a designated training area about 5 km south of the Kandahar airfield. Four 3 PPCLI soldiers were killed and eight others were injured. The Minister of National Defence convened a Board of Inquiry to investigate the “Tarnak Farm incident”, as it is now known, and portions of the Board’s final report are now public.
    * Operation TORII: On May 4, 2002, the coalition forces in Afghanistan launched Op TORII, a three-day operation in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan conducted by LCol Pat Stogran in command of an international task force that included about 400 Canadian soldiers Their mission was to find Taliban and Al-Qaeda cave complexes, gather information about terrorist operations in the area, and destroy the cave complexes to prevent terrorists from using them in the future. Burial sites discovered during Op TORII yielded DNA evidence with potential intelligence value.
    * Zobol Province: Between June 30, 2002, and July 4, 2002, most of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group was deployed in Zobol Province, about 100 km northeast of Kandahar, to establish a coalition presence there for the first time. During this deployment, the Canadians and the Afghan National Army conducted a sweep operation in the Shin Key Valley that produced information about recent Al Qaeda and Taliban activities. They also recovered several rockets, fostered relations with the governor of the province, and distributed humanitarian aid (e.g., blankets, food, school supplies) to local people.
    * Repatriation: On July 13, 2002, the 3 PPCLI Battle Group ceased operations and began preparing to return to Canada. Following a brief stay in Guam, part of the planned reintegration process, the soldiers arrived in Edmonton, Alberta, on July 28, 2002, and July 30, 2002. The soldiers not based in Edmonton then continued on to their homes in Winnipeg, Manitoba; Kingston, Ontario; and Trenton, Ontario.

    Air Force

    Strategic Airlift Detachment

    On November 16, 2001 the Strategic Airlift Detachment deployed from 8 Wing Trenton with one CC 150 Polaris (Airbus A310) long-range transport aircraft and about 40 CF members, including three flight crews and one air-cargo handling team. Initially based in Germany, the Strategic Airlift Detachment later moved to the Arabian Gulf region.

    The main purpose of the CC-150 Polaris is long-range transport of personnel and equipment, and the Strategic Airlift Detachment logged about 600 flying hours moving approximately 3.5 million kg of cargo and more than 2,300 passengers. Its tasks included medical evacuation, sustainment and re-supply, rapid delivery of operationally required items, and movement of personnel into the theatre of operations.


    On May 20, 2002, the Strategic Airlift Detachment ceased operations and returned to 8 Wing Trenton, arriving home on May 21, 2002. The CC-150 Polaris continues to support Op APOLLO by carrying out regular sustainment flights from Canada to the Arabian Gulf region.

    Long Range Patrol Detachment

    On December 27, 2001, the Minister of National Defence announced the deployment to the Arabian Gulf region of two CP 140 Aurora long-range surveillance and maritime patrol aircraft with about 200 Air Force personnel, including flight crews and support personnel, from 14 Wing Greenwood, Nova Scotia, and 19 Wing Comox, British Columbia.

    The mission of the Long-Range Patrol Detachment (LRP Det) was to deliver reconnaissance and surveillance support to the maritime coalition forces. The CP 140 Aurora extended the surveillance range of maritime coalition forces to areas not accessible to ship-borne radar, and Aurora crews typically gathered information well before ships’ radar operators could. Aurora crews also contributed to the security of coalition forces by watching for vessels of interest.

    The LRP Det had a secondary mission in the area of operations: search and rescue. If a ship had sunk, or an aircraft crashed at sea, the crew of a patrolling Aurora could have located the emergency site and airdropped survival kits (including an inflatable dinghy and water-purification equipment) to help sustain the survivors until a surface ship could reach them.

    The CP-140 Aurora has been Canada's multi-mission reconnaissance and antisubmarine aircraft for more than 20 years. The Auroras are equipped with a sensor array that includes forward-looking infrared cameras, digital cameras and conventional radar. With speed, endurance and range of coverage, the Auroras and their crews kept a watchful eye on the myriad of surface vessels operating in the Arabian Gulf and the Arabian Sea.

    On June 19, 2003, the LRP Det conducted its last mission in support of the coalition fleet, having completed 500 missions and logged more than 4,300 flying hours on Op APOLLO.

    Tactical Airlift Detachment

    On January 21, 2002, the 35-strong advance party of the Tactical Airlift Detachment (TAL Det) departed Canada for the Arabian Gulf region to prepare the infrastructure required to operate three CC 130 Hercules transport aircraft. On January 25, 2002, the main body of the TAL Det deployed with the aircraft and about 180 Air Force personnel, most of them from 8 Wing Trenton, Ontario.

    The mission of the TAL Det is to support coalition forces by transporting military personnel, equipment and cargo between destinations in the theatre of operations, including Afghanistan. The versatile CC 130 Hercules is ideal for this mission: it can lift a 16,000-kg payload, and land safely with a full load on a basic airstrip only about as long as three football fields. It can also be loaded and unloaded quickly with simple equipment. The flight crews and ground personnel of the TAL Det are equally well suited to the mission: in recent years, they have delivered military supplies and humanitarian aid to Somalia, Kosovo, Eritrea and other troubled areas.

    Two CC-130 Hercules aircraft from Op APOLLO were assigned to Op CARAVAN, from 7 June to 6 July, to assist in the airlifting of a UN peacekeeping mission into the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

    Since their arrival in the Arabian Gulf region, TAL Det crews have conducted more than 800 sorties and flown about 5,800 hours to deliver about 7 million kilograms of cargo and 6,100 passengers. They will remain in the Arabian Gulf region to support Op ATHENA, performing the same mission as in Op APOLLO.

    Helicopter Detachments

    The CH-124 Sea King helicopter detachments that serve aboard HMC ships belong to 12 Wing, an Air Force formation divided between Shearwater, Nova Scotia (to support Maritime Command Atlantic, based at Halifax) and Patricia Bay, British Columbia (to support Maritime Command Pacific, based at Esquimalt). Ship-borne helicopters perform a wide range of tasks- including reconnaissance, replenishment, transport and escort- that are essential to the operations of a naval task group.

    Each Canadian frigate normally carries one helicopter, with maintenance personnel and flight crews. Each Canadian replenishment ship carries two helicopters, with flight crews and sufficient maintenance personnel to support other helicopter detachments in the task group while keeping their own aircraft flying. The ships currently serving with the Canadian Naval Task Group in the Arabian Gulf region each have an embarked CH-124 Sea King helicopter, with flight crews and maintenance crews comprising about 20 Air Force personnel.

    Logistics

    “Logistics” is the essential business of providing deployed forces with everything they need to live, move, work and fight in the theatre of operations, including food, water, clothing, equipment, ammunition, shelter, transportation, and essential services such as health care. The key aim of logistics is sustainability, which is especially critical for deployed ships and aircraft.

    During its deployment in Afghanistan, the 3 PPCLI Battle Group was supported by the Strategic Line of Communication (SLOC) Unit, made up of 50 soldiers from 1 Service Battalion in Edmonton and support personnel drawn from other bases. It comprised a headquarters, two movements sections, a supply platoon and a transportation section. The movements sections provided traffic control and services such as aircraft loading and unloading. Supply Platoon provided shipping, receiving and warehousing services. Transportation Section provided integral support to “carry equipment” — that is, all forms of transport vehicles and load-handling equipment—and offered first-line maintenance of vehicles belonging to units of the Battle Group. The SLOC Unit returned to Canada by the end of August 2002.

    Because of the complexity of Op APOLLO, the logistic units originally deployed to support the Air Force detachments, the 3 PPCLI Battle Group and the Canadian Naval Task Group were consolidated on April 17, 2002, to form a National Support Unit (NSU).

    With the realignment of forces in southwest Asia, the NSU has received a new name and a new mission. Canadian Forces Southwest Asia Theatre Support Base will become an integral part of Op ATHENA on August 16, 2003. This change indicates the key role this unit will play in supporting the 1,900-strong Canadian contingent that will serve with Op ATHENA, the CF contribution to the International Stabilization Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. Although Op ATHENA will be its primary focus, the Canadian Forces Southwest Asia Theatre Support Base will continue to provide some support to units deployed on Op APOLLO, specifically the frigate HMCS Calgary.

    Communications

    In May 2002, the National Command, Control and Information System Squadron (NCCIS Sqn) was created to organize communications for the CF personnel and units deployed on Op APOLLO. The NCCIS Sqn provides the Canadian Joint Task Force Commander and the commanders of deployed CF units with national communications and information system capabilities. The personnel of the NCCIS Sqn build and maintain the computer and telephone networks that link the units deployed in the Arabian Gulf region to their headquarters in North America.

    At its peak, NCCIS Sqn strength stood at about 90 all ranks; it now comprises about 30 CF personnel. The core membership of the NCCIS Sqn comes from the Canadian Forces Joint Signal Regiment in Kingston, Ontario, and from communications units at 8 Wing Trenton, Ontario. The mission of this unit, too, is changing to focus on Op ATHENA.

    Information on other CF operations is available at http://www.forces.gc.ca.
    Last edited by Fair Dinkum; 11-26-2004 at 06:22 PM.
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet

  16. #16
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    Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by MyMody
    Well - I'm posting this for my brother so here it is.

    I know how many of you have different views on these because I've seen some of the great debates on these topics here. I'm posting here because I want to get a non-biased idea of every one's view on the recent and past events.

    How do you feel about Canadian-American relations ever since the 9/11 terrorist attack? This also includes the recent war in Iraq. How do you feel about how some Americans are viewed by Canadians and how some Canadians do not like the US government? How do you feel about the fact that Canada didn't go into Iraq with the US? How do you feel about the killing of Canadian ground troops in error? If there is anything else you want to add to this please do.

    These are all views that will appear on an essay and he was in need of some opinions of everyday people. All comments are appreciated and you will get credit for what you say.

    Thanks guys,
    Matt
    Well, it seems that you asked for non-biased opinions and what you got were completely biased, one-sided opinions favoring the Canadian side, both from Canadians and would-be Canadians from the U.S. .

    I'm not going to go into any of my opinions about Canada vs. the U.S. Why? Because my opinion is biased. I couln't express an opinion without biases. And, this may surprise you but, I don't believe that anybody can express an opinion that is not biased.

    It seems to me that your question should've been: Can you please give me your biased opinions from which I will pick and choose the ones to use in my essay?

    Keep in mind also that, if you were to ask for personal observations instead of opinions, those observations almost always come from biased minds.

  17. #17

    Re: Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by adorno
    Well, it seems that you asked for non-biased opinions and what you got were completely biased, one-sided opinions favoring the Canadian side, both from Canadians and would-be Canadians from the U.S. .
    I am certainly *not* a would-be Canadian. Nice place to visit, but I have no intentions of ever living there.
    Glenn
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet

  18. #18
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    Re: Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by adorno
    Well, it seems that you asked for non-biased opinions and what you got were completely biased, one-sided opinions favoring the Canadian side, both from Canadians and would-be Canadians from the U.S. .

    I'm not going to go into any of my opinions about Canada vs. the U.S. Why? Because my opinion is biased. I couln't express an opinion without biases. And, this may surprise you but, I don't believe that anybody can express an opinion that is not biased.

    It seems to me that your question should've been: Can you please give me your biased opinions from which I will pick and choose the ones to use in my essay?

    Keep in mind also that, if you were to ask for personal observations instead of opinions, those observations almost always come from biased minds.
    Considering the majority of American's don't even really know we exist up north - it comes as no surprise that Canadians have more to say about our relations.

    I don't know about you - but I found your post, quite useless.....just my opinion. Why not provide your side if you claim all the posts are one sided? Why not balance the thread with your intimate knowledge of our Country.
    Last edited by HostingDotExpress; 11-27-2004 at 06:39 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Re: Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by Hostkookster
    Considering the majority of American's don't even really know we exist up north - it comes as no surprise that Canadians have more to say about our relations.
    You know, you're so right. I had not idea that Canada was north of the U.S. After you replied to my useless post and informed me about Canada being north of the U.S., I pulled out my maps and lo-and-behold, Canada really is north of us. It blew my mind to learn that Canada is not south, but north of the U.S. I always wondered how it was possible for the cold fronts to be always coming from the direction of Canada when it was south of us.

    I don't know about you - but I found your post, quite useless.....just my opinion.
    I have news for you! My post wasn't intended to be useful. It was just a critique of the original question and of the responses that it solicited. Just my opinion.

    Your post, however, was quite useful. Because of your post, I now know that Canada is north of us and that Canadians have more to say than the Americans about Canadian/American relations. Who woulda thunk it?

    Why not provide your side if you claim all the posts are one sided?
    Why not balance the thread with your intimate knowledge of our Country.
    Why should I bother? The Canadians that already posted in this thread have already stated their 'well-informed' and 'balanced' opinions. They have all the answers that you are looking for.

    By the way, don't take me wrong. I don't have a negative opinion about Canadians, wherever they exist.

    And, hey, tell your fellow Canadians that whenever any of their dignitaries visit the U.S. that they will be welcome even if we disagree with their politics.

    And, hey, at the same time, inform them that our prresident was elected by the American people. They can't just say that they have a problem with the president and not the American people. For, and this might be news to many Canadians, it is the American people who elected the president. If our prosident is not acceptable to them, then they are indirectly showing no respect for the people who elected him.

  20. #20
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by adorno
    And, hey, at the same time, inform them that our prresident was elected by the American people. They can't just say that they have a problem with the president and not the American people. For, and this might be news to many Canadians, it is the American people who elected the president. If our prosident is not acceptable to them, then they are indirectly showing no respect for the people who elected him.
    Greetings from Canada. While I respect that every person can and should have an opinion, I do not have to repect that opinion itself. So I have no repect for US president or any people who voted for him. In my opinon he and all people who voted for him stand for all the wrong things.

  21. #21
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    There really isn't much to say about Canadian/American relations as neither side will ever "get" the other nor will they sway their viewpoints at the cost of being "wrong". Out of the Canadians I've spoken to, I'd have to say it's about 50/50 in support of the war. About the same in the US. I say we just need to get past all this garbage, we're neighbors and always are going to be neighbors (until the next ice age anyway ).

  22. #22
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Canadian-American Relations

    Originally posted by sasha
    Greetings from Canada. While I respect that every person can and should have an opinion, I do not have to repect that opinion itself. So I have no repect for US president or any people who voted for him. In my opinon he and all people who voted for him stand for all the wrong things.
    wow - thats pretty harsh man.

    so you dont like 51% of all americans I see.

    thats too bad.

    I on the other hand I have been to canada recently - and I thought everyone was great. we had a lot of fun - the people were nice and we all got along just fine. in fact I got to meet someone that I disagree with on almost all subjects - JP aboud - and he in fact is a great guy and we had a great time.

    see politics are just one facet of life - not meant to stand in the way of fellowship and the underlying brother ( and sister) hood of humanity.



    btw - jp - we are glad you got some deodorant.
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  23. #23
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    I live in the US, and I visit Canada all the time (I live about 2 hours from Canada). I can say alot of Canada people are very nice for the most part. Plus alot of nice Canada people are on this board... Vito, Blue, Art, ect. Though...

    Greetings from Canada. While I respect that every person can and should have an opinion, I do not have to repect that opinion itself. So I have no repect for US president or any people who voted for him. In my opinon he and all people who voted for him stand for all the wrong things.


    You do have your opinion, and some people will or will not agree with it. Though you might not respect me that is fine, but I did not vote for Bush for what he stands for. I voted for him, because I did not want Kerry in simple as that. Do not try and say that people who voted for him stand for all the wrong things when you do not know the people who voted for him.
    I am back....


  24. #24
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    Torith,

    We're not "Canada people", we're Canadians.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Haze
    Torith,

    We're not "Canada people", we're Canadians.
    Well in Montana we state other people from other states, cities, or other nations as people not per say "Canadians", but Canada People .
    I am back....


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