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Thread: Fraud Orders
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08-16-2011, 01:57 PM #1Aspiring Evangelist
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Fraud Orders
We have recently started seeing a very large inflow of fraudulent orders wonder if others are also seeing this perhaps we can all get together and come up with ways to battle this
Any suggestions?< < E Z Z I . n e t > >
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08-16-2011, 02:04 PM #2WHT Addict
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How many are you getting? I usually get maybe 1 a day, nothing out of the ordinary.
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08-16-2011, 02:26 PM #3Managed Service Provider
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You probably had 1-2 get through and now they are slamming you with more.
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08-16-2011, 02:43 PM #4Junior Guru
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What Ryan said. We had this happen last month. Two got through that looked completely legitimate and was processed and activated. After that we got like 10 more within a week, but we caught those. You just have to scrutinize everything about the orders. What alerted us to it was the person used the same secret question and answer for every account they tried to open.
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08-16-2011, 04:39 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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Are they using proxies to make the orders?
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08-16-2011, 04:50 PM #6Corporate Member
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Ask all customers to sign and return your T&C and provide ID. You'll turn away maybe 1% of legit orders (some people don't like to show ID) but you will also eliminate near 100% of fraudulent orders. Losing 1% of legit customers is worth it IMO, the problems associated with fraud (charge-backs, SPAM, network abuse etc) are costly.
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08-16-2011, 04:53 PM #7Eternal Member
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Asking for signed terms and service + ID may be a bit extreme, but I suppose it's not a bad method.
At the minimum, you might want to start voice verifying orders. Most customers shouldn't have a problem with that (in fact, I doubt any will).MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
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08-16-2011, 05:07 PM #8Web Hosting Guru
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We receive 2 fraud orders a day on creditcards, we wait for 2checkout fraud check but sometimes it pass fraud checks and the next day we receive the charge back so we wait 24 hours on creditcard customers and 98% of them are aware of this problem and they are ok on waiting, paypal customers get activated instantly.
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08-16-2011, 05:16 PM #9Corporate Member
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We experienced the following with a PayPal order, which is why we started requiring ID:
- customer called our office, discussed custom setup for over an hour
- client paid via paypal high $x,xxx amount for 8x SAS, dual proc, high RAM, RAID, dedicated gigabit server setup
- customer IP geo location matched phone number area code
- call back to the client answered promptly
- custom hardware ordered from our vendor
- 4 or 5 days later paypal reversed the funds stating that the paypal account had been hijacked/stolen
- call back to the client's phone number resulted in no answer, found out it was a google voice number
- found out the client IP was a VPS machine
- emails to the client started bouncing
Most fraudsters I would guess don't ever get on the phone with you, but with the availability of google voice / skype, etc phone verification simply isn't enough. It's a pain forcing customers to provide ID etc, but losing a few hundred dollars in sales is better than getting scammed with custom setups (which probably would of been used to send masses of SPAM).
Whatever you decide to do, just realize that you can't be too careful. You either risk fraud against yourself or risk turning away legitimate clients.
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08-16-2011, 06:34 PM #10Randy
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I've seen plenty of fake ID's and CC's submitted (ane they look VERY legitimate). To the point where we no longer accept faxed or otherwise low resolution scans and it's STILL hard to tell at times.
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08-16-2011, 06:53 PM #11Web Hosting Guru
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It is a problem that is not going to go away. You can try all the suggestions above but in the end it comes down to you reviewing the order, making any followup you see fit and going with your gut. Any method you use will allow fraud to get through at some point. Just do what you can to limit it.
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08-16-2011, 08:30 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Exactly what I was going to say as we see the same thing.
The one thing we have noticed is they do not like to sign our CC authorization form. You'll hear that they dont have a scanner or a printer(but they happened to have their ID and CC scanned already, the highres ones) and to cancel the order.
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08-16-2011, 08:34 PM #13Rockin' the beer gut
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08-17-2011, 11:53 AM #14Aspiring Evangelist
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We are getting 2-3 fraud orders a day - we are using Maxmind but these guys have obviously found ways to fool those systems.
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08-17-2011, 12:24 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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We've even had one fraud case with matching ID and bank card. I can recommend asking for a home utility bill to verify the address. This is not something that is offered on the "ID market".
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08-17-2011, 12:29 PM #16Randy
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08-17-2011, 07:11 PM #17Aspiring Evangelist
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08-17-2011, 07:22 PM #18Web Hosting Guru
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Has anyone been having problems with paypal? It seems every day paypal gets worse.
What I hate most is that paypal will initially clear a payment then 24 hours later decide to flag it for "review". I'll have the customer call in and talk to their abuse teams to clear their account and payment. Even then sometimes they'll still reverse the payment and the user needs to initiate another payment which goes through without issue.
I've been getting 1-5 paypal charge backs a week
Google checkout is another story. I absolutely love it. In the past 2 years i've had maybe 3-4 charge backs with checkout. Whatever they're doing it works great.
I don't have a scanner or printer. But do have my CC and passport scanned in on my computer (went to a cybercafe). I guess I'm a scammer?Last edited by sensel; 08-17-2011 at 07:25 PM.
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08-18-2011, 12:30 PM #19Corporate Member
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08-18-2011, 01:10 PM #20Premium Member
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08-18-2011, 03:06 PM #21Junior Guru Wannabe
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just curious as i am not a provider myself...so what do scammers usually do with their account, which they presumably only have for a few days?
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08-18-2011, 06:45 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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It is surprising, they're even emailing/calling in for support...and to have a chargeback 24-40 days later, it's a huge waste of time, and PITA.
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08-18-2011, 06:50 PM #23Newbie
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You want to automate this. Not make people submit stuff via the website... or w/e. You want to use something like Ethoca360 or someone serious like that, who has a large database and works with big hosting companies and large ecom merchants... like they do. I would suggest giving them a call... its not cheap... I think prices start at like $500/mo, but well worth the results, if you are having big CC problems....
If its PayPal related, where they just keep using fake orders and stuff. I would recommend that you contact paypal, or perhaps ban their IP from your site if they are using the same IP... if not... disable paypal if possible for an hour... they might stop.
Depends... could you give us more information about what type of medium is being used?
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01-19-2012, 06:35 PM #24Aspiring Evangelist
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Were seeing quite few fraudulent orders coming from people with emails on different WORLD.com domains (like techie.com, minister.com etc.)
Please reply if you are experiencing the same? Also, any suggestions?< < E Z Z I . n e t > >
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01-19-2012, 08:32 PM #25Not so experienced
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We have this mostly. I don't even think they're fraud but legit customers who chargeback near the end of their term after fulling using their server/bandwidth AND contacting support on various occasions.
Recently however, we've been having PayPal "review" many legit transactions. Normally this is fine, but they hold payments for nearly 2 weeks and customers simply don't want to wait this long. We can't provide service in case Paypal decides to reverse the transaction and the client doesn't want to pay for service already used.
Also I've found 2CheckOut's fraud checking to fail a lot recently. We have bigger orders (3monthly-6monthly) pass, then 30-60days later chargeback. We've challenged the charges a few times, but every-time we've lost based on the same reason (something like bank has decided XX)
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