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Thread: Allow adult content or not?
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10-28-2003, 01:05 PM #1WHT Addict
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Allow adult content or not?
Hello all,
I've been lurking around these forums for some time now and decided to finally register and post a question. I currently run a web hosting business and right now i *do* allow adult content websites. I don't have any problem with it but i was wondering why some other hosts decide not to allow it. Is it just because of the traffic problems those sites can create or moral reasons? Are there other issues i may not be thinking about? Any input would be helpful.
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10-28-2003, 01:10 PM #2Junior Guru Wannabe
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IMO, people that try to impose their moral BS on others should go out of business. Even without adult content, I tried to avoid them because I don't like the holier-than-thou big brother attitude. And forbidding it for bandwidth reasons is a copout - limit the bandwidth, don't tell people what they can and cannot transmit (as long as its legal)
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10-28-2003, 01:17 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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I don't consider myself holier-than-thou, but I do not allow Adult content hosted on my servers. I'm not impressing my beliefs on others by doing so.
I am a man of principle, and one of my principles is that Pornography is derogatory towards women, and creates problems within families. So I do not allow it on my servers. If a client has a problem with that, they can go elsewhere for hosting.
Simple as that.
My question for you is, do you allow hate/racist/terrorist content on your servers? By your arguement, I can say that you are holier-than-thou for impressing your own moral rights upon others.
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10-28-2003, 01:20 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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It's mostly moral reasons... people want to say that their hosting company is "family-friendly" and doesn't support that.
To me, that means they're missing out on a lot of revenue. Way over 50% of our revenue (I'm talking thousands of dollars a month) comes from companies offering adult products. One company alone pays for 75% of our bandwidth/rackspace expenses with their colo contract. They're an adult business.
To me, it's foolish to not offer adult sites. Now, the people who want adult sites for $10/month -- we are not interested in that market. People who want dedicated servers and colo for legal adult content... yes, absolutely.
One rule: Always put your adult sites on a different IP than your non-adult sites. Don't ever let MyFamilySite.com go to their IP address or look it up in whois.sc and see FetishWorldWebsite. Make sure you have enough IP addresses to do this. That's the only hard-and-fast rule I see when offering adult content.
Yes, it is a lucrative market; yes, most hosts who offer adult hosting (and market it as such) will find their revenues double or triple; but if you choose not to offer it, that's fine by me. Just state that you don't offer it, however, and don't make up excuses.Erica Douglass, Founder, Simpli Hosting, Inc.
»»» I founded Simpli Hosting, and sold it in 2007 to Silicon Valley Web Hosting after over 6 years in the business.
Now I'm blogging at erica.biz!
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10-28-2003, 01:30 PM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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I don't host other sites, but I would certainly go somewhere else for my hosting.. People that run hate websites expect to be hated. People that aren't ashamed of the human body should not tolerate your kind of intolerance.
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10-28-2003, 01:35 PM #6Newbie
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I am in both arenas, non-adult and adult. 7 years...
What you should do as a HOST is make a form
stating what url they are using. for approval....ect
If I were hosting sites I would make sure ALL
have WARNING PAGES on the front url.
And all material is there own - copywrite.
Most problems are with free sites.
so I would just let pay sites into hosting..
Just my 2 cents....
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10-28-2003, 02:00 PM #7The E-Commerce Answer Guy
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I think Erica's comments above sum it up nicely: adult businesses that are serious about hosting and willing to pay the appropriate price for the higher utilization they require - on bandwidth and CPU... can be just fine and make big profits for hosting companies.
But naturally... you want to make sure to stay away from adult sites that want the hosting for free or for next-to-nothing... they will just suck up resources and COST you money, not MAKE you money. There is a world of difference between the former and latter type of adult hosting client.
Personally, I don't think anyone should feel -obligated- to host any type of business that they don't feel good about. (For instance, I would never want to be associated with a hate group or racist group or anything like that... I'd not want to do ANY business with them, regardless of the profits.)
Most hosts don't care about adult content - a business is a business, adult or not. But I do appreciate and understand if a person doesn't want to have those kinds of accounts. In that case, the right thing to do is just state your AUP and let someone else host those kinds of customers.
I think the other comment in this thread about having a separate IP is a VERY good idea. You may even want to have a separate server specifically for your adult hosting. I've even seen some companies have a separate Web hosting "division" for their adult sales since there are sometimes very specific niche needs that those kinds of clients are looking for.
Best of luck with your hosting - adult or non-adultCDGcommerce.com - Trusted Merchant Account Solutions since 1998
Many thousands of successful, growing businesses benefit from our expertise every day. You can, too!
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10-28-2003, 02:05 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Greetings:
I agree with amish_geek in that our stance against hosting certain types of sites is based on the faith of the founder of the company.
We are a privately held company, and as such we can determine what is and is not appropriate.
Furthermore, 99% of our clients are businesses. While the owners vary in their faith, and in whom they put their trust, the vast majority share strong family values.
We’ve outright had business owners tell us that if we ever hosted an adult site (to them there is not an issue of legal adult vs. non-legal adult), they would leave us.
Between faith, family values, and the values of our clients we have kept firm over the past eight years in business of not intentionally dealing in the industry.
Thank you.
P.S. We did have a case in last 2000 when we got a contract to get a down server up and running. We got the contract, money, et all, did the work, and only when we brought up the site saw it was an adult site. Then the main tech had to bust the owner for about a week <sigh.>
P.S.S. Revenue means zero in a number of situations.
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10-28-2003, 02:15 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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I allow adult content, but that necessarily means I do not approve of adult content. The thing I worry about most is child pornography or beastily porn. I never want to come across this material, but there is a risk of it. The only thing I will host is pornography, but I will not host racism or any form of it. I think personal feelings of a pornographic sites should be neutral unless otherwise its nasty type of porn. I mean nude photos those are ok, because some women like taking shots of their bodies.
Kerry Jones
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10-28-2003, 02:26 PM #10Newbie
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Well, I always look for a host that does not host pornography. People have to do what is comfortable for them and what their conscience will allow.
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10-28-2003, 02:33 PM #11Junior Guru Wannabe
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"We’ve outright had business owners tell us that if we ever hosted an adult site (to them there is not an issue of legal adult vs. non-legal adult), they would leave us."
Ever had any threaten to leave if you hosted jews or blacks? Tell them to run their own business and keep their nose out of yours.
I think the discrimination is mainly the influence of hypocritical "moralists", like authorize.net won't even be a GATEWAY for you if you don't show proper puritan ethics. If you do business with 10 companies and just one of them requires a certain behavior from you, you are boxed in, and their influence spreads through you. I won't be a pawn.
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10-28-2003, 02:37 PM #12Newbie
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I think the main problems will be not copyright or family-friendly.. You can solve them easily. The main problem should be using of bandwidth and Space.
Adult hosting area always allowed people directly pay for bandwidth costing and space costing, not a package. So people pay for what they use, that is, they never have the waste problems. They wouldn't pay for 30GB and just use 10GB. Then compare to non-adult clients, those package or space are less-profitable.http://www.sheephost.com
Email : info@sheephost.com
--try out what we have..
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10-28-2003, 02:38 PM #13WHT Addict
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Looks like there are a lot of pros and cons to this issue. On one hand i might scare off potential customers if they see that i host adult content, on the other i could increase revenues by including this market. I think everyone has valid points. I really like the idea of having a serperate server and IP address... it would give other customers peice of mind that their website is no where near that kind of content.
I guess my main concern would be legal issues.... in general what types of things can i be liable for as the service provider?
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10-28-2003, 02:40 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Greetings Gleen:
1. The owner was saved by Christ Jesus; and since he owns the company, he can determine the types of customers that fit the business profile.
While Christ Jesus forgives sins, He does state, “Go and sin no more.”
2. Company management agrees with our business clients who have family values.
3. Privately held companies can determine who their clients are within the scope of the law.
If a privately held company does not want to host hate groups and porno companies, then that is their business.
Thank you.
P.S. There are some areas where money is worthless.
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10-28-2003, 02:42 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by gleen
"We’ve outright had business owners tell us that if we ever hosted an adult site (to them there is not an issue of legal adult vs. non-legal adult), they would leave us."
Ever had any threaten to leave if you hosted jews or blacks? Tell them to run their own business and keep their nose out of yours.
I think the discrimination is mainly the influence of hypocritical "moralists", like authorize.net won't even be a GATEWAY for you if you don't show proper puritan ethics. If you do business with 10 companies and just one of them requires a certain behavior from you, you are boxed in, and their influence spreads through you. I won't be a pawn.Kerry Jones
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10-28-2003, 02:45 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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Greetings Kerry Jones:
We've had customers outright ask us if we host pornographic material.
We are not going to lie to them.
We've had customers make the statement they will not host with a company that hosts adult Web sites; then they waited for a response.
Thank you.
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10-28-2003, 02:48 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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I do not host adult sites...
There are multiple reasons. First those that are business:
1-I know nothing about the industry and have no desire to learn.
2-They are prone to many additional problems ranging from protests to ddos and more. This includes others linking to their images also.
3-I also know many who would not want to be hosted by an "adult host."
4-Many of my techs would not work for me if adult support was required.
Now, to the personal:
It is my business, my community. I can shape it as I desire. And, I have chosen to shape it to not include adult sites, racist sites, hate sites, warez sites. Likewise, I would never host a Tobacco company. There are plenty of other options for adult customers, where they can be better serviced and be welcome. There are plenty of other customers for me to serve.
Two last points: One...anyone who equates "adult sites" with an appreciation for the "nude body" or anything such as that needs to visit the real adult world.unless otherwise its nasty type of porn. I mean nude photos those are ok, because some women like taking shots of their bodies.
And, to gleen. You show the same narrowmindedness you accuse others of. Why do you have so much anger built up? Why can't you discuss something like this professionally, rather than attacking everyone who doesn't share your opinion.
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10-28-2003, 02:56 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by dg_ak
Looks like there are a lot of pros and cons to this issue. On one hand i might scare off potential customers if they see that i host adult content, on the other i could increase revenues by including this market.
Since we have been in business, we've had one guy refuse to host with us because we offered adult content. (This was only last week, and he said he found us on WHT, so it could have even been someone posting in this thread.) He said he was interested in a virtual hosting package, so he was willing to pay $30/month or less for hosting (probably.)
On the other hand, we make several thousand dollars a month hosting adult sites.
I respect all of you who have stated in this thread that you don't offer adult hosting or wouldn't host with a provider that did. As a female, you might expect me to have a stronger stance on this, but I don't. It's simply something some women choose to do, and the fact that they choose to pose nude or engage in sexual activity that is publicly displayed (i.e. they weren't forced into doing it) makes this okay with me. I believe in choice, even if I don't always agree with the choices people make. I am not interested in posing nude, but if some women are, and others want to pay them for doing that, I don't feel like anyone should judge them and tell them that is wrong.
Child pornography, on the other hand, I strongly disagree with, because I do not feel that most children are capable of the kind of rational decision-making that leads to the conclusion that they wish to perform this act.
As long as the people involved are consenting adults, I find nothing wrong with pornography. Hate websites, on the other hand, are a bit trickier -- I would draw the line there simply because I don't want to deal with a person who cannot control his or her emotions.
My beliefs in freedom of speech and freedom of expression for all people, as long as they are capable of making a rational decision, is what keeps my company hosting adult websites. I do not wish to impose my moral beliefs upon others. It is God's responsibility to judge people, not mine. Thus, as long as it's legal and doesn't involve people who hate another class of people, we will host the content.Erica Douglass, Founder, Simpli Hosting, Inc.
»»» I founded Simpli Hosting, and sold it in 2007 to Silicon Valley Web Hosting after over 6 years in the business.
Now I'm blogging at erica.biz!
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10-28-2003, 02:57 PM #19The E-Commerce Answer Guy
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There is a quote that I've always liked... a friend of mine once said, "I only do business that makes me smile." And I think that is a great rule of thumb for each person to make their own determination.
Another good quote might be "I only do business that I UNDERSTAND."
The fact is... there are companies that specialize in adult hosting. They know their customers, they know the market, they know the "niche services" they need to offer to be truly successful - and they make a lot of profit.
And... there are plenty of companies that do NOT offer adult hosting and they focus on the 95% of accounts that don't do adult content... and these companies also grow and prosper.
We all live and operate in a free business marketplace. Everyone has their niche and everyone sets their own boundaries on what makes them comfortable. I don't think anyone should criticize someone for NOT allowing adult hosting - after all, it just frees up that customer to work with someone who DOES want that kind of business.
Some people could care less about adult content. Some people take great offense to it... and I can understand both perspectives and where people are coming from on both sides.
The great thing is that everyone can make their own decision - as the owner of their own hosting operation -as to what makes the most sense for them and what they are comfortable (or not comfortable) doing.
There is a great analogy in this with respect to the merchant services industry when it comes to adult merchant accounts.
Most banks these days won't approve or accept adult merchant credit card processing. Why? Because the chargeback ratios are extremely high and statistically, it represents a much higher risk that most folks are just not willing to underwrite.
The few that do - are specialists in that kind of processing and almost exclusively handle those kinds of high risk accounts. I think that this same analogy generally holds true for the Web hosting industry as well.CDGcommerce.com - Trusted Merchant Account Solutions since 1998
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10-28-2003, 03:05 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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Simpli-Erica,
Good posts, you've made some good points. Christian values, Muslism, values, Jewish values, etc should have no role in how a hosting company is ran. Yes I believe in Christianity, but deem that people may not like pornography the fact is there going to move on to another company until they find another one. Child pornography will pop up once in a while. To take steps against this in order to host a pornographic website we will call you and comfirm your address and phone number. A extensive background search will be made to make sure they are the person living at that address. We are going to do it two ways. A phone call to comfirm it and a letter sent to the address and I would also like a photo id of the person.
ote:unless otherwise its nasty type of porn. I mean nude photos those are ok, because some women like taking shots of their bodies.
We aren't talking art, my friends. These sites for the most part are extreme.
And, to gleen. You show the same narrowmindedness you accuse others of. Why do you have so much anger built up? Why can't you discuss something like this professionally, rather than attacking everyone who doesn't share your opinion.
Greetings Kerry Jones:
We've had customers outright ask us if we host pornographic material.
We are not going to lie to them.
We've had customers make the statement they will not host with a company that hosts adult Web sites; then they waited for a response.
Thank you.Kerry Jones
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10-28-2003, 03:31 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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I choose not to host adult content from a moral stand point.
Whoever compared refusal to host porn to refusing to host jews or black people is way off base. Pornography isn't a race of people and it's not racist to refuse to host pornography.
I have no problem with companies who decide they want to host porno, that's their choice and I respect that. All I ask is the same in return.
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10-28-2003, 03:33 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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Greetings Kerry:
"You don't have to necessarily lie and say wheter you host a pornographic site or not. You can simply say "We have a firm stance to protect the privacy of our customers and therefore I can not disclose this information due to the privacy policy.""
We have customers all over the world as do a lot of hosts.
I've yet to come across a business owner who would find the answer above evasive on the stand point they are not asking about specific sites.
Thank you.
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10-28-2003, 03:35 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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Christian values, Muslism, values, Jewish values, etc should have no role in how a hosting company is ran.
As to the comment about Moralistic hosts being against Adult Hosting, doesnt that then imply that those that do host Adulth content are Immoral?
Just because something is legal, does not make it moral. The true test for anyone should be, "What does my concience tell me about this?"
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10-28-2003, 03:44 PM #24Junior Guru Wannabe
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Christ Jesus is ruining things for everyone... Well I follow a superior moral code, sister.
Of course you have that right, just as its my right to stamp out puritanical ethics wherever they rear their ugly head. It is definitely about more than money, for me.
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10-28-2003, 03:53 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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Our motto: "No shoes, no shirt, no service".
Seriously, our decision to not host adult websites is a business one, and not a moral one. We have no experience in hosting these type of sites. Adult sites use more resources, have high BW considerations, attract more hackers / problems, have ddos's, often have fraud and abuse, etc... As compared to our business clients that have very little of this. In order to support adult sites, you have to do extra things such as separate IP blocks, separate servers, less accounts per machine, more monitoring for illegal activity, etc...
At the end of the day, there are a lot of things we would need to change and implement to support it, and we do not want to invest the time or resources to be able to do so. Also, many of our business clients comment on the fact that they are pleased we do not host adult sites, and many would not host with us if we did. Add to that the fact that we do not want to view such material (for a variety of reasons, not some high moral ground) in our daily business lives, and for us the decision is to not host adult material.
Now, to the people who try to equate this stance with not hosting an ethnic group or specific race, that is ludicrous. The 2 things could not be more far apart. To take my motto from above, that would be like saying a restaraunt should allow nude people to be served, as well as those with clothes or signs depicting sexual acts, etc... The owner has the right to refuse service to these patrons. They cannot discriminate based on race, religion, etc... but a set of guidelines can be posted and must be followed. The same holds true for hosting.
- John C.