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  1. #1
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    Is the cloud killing colocations?

    For a project i need some very special equipped servers that i can't find in no normal hosting plan - storage servers which allow me to take the disks to home/competitor when i cancel the contract.

    I've checked many offers the last days found that most colocations for 4U and less have almost vanished and the few offers i get from data centers are often stuck in the prices from 2007 (like $20 per TB transfer) and long contract times.

    A'm i right or just bad in researching the offers.

    I'm especially talking about european hosters.

  2. #2
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    Why would you need to take the physical disks to a competitor? Why can't you just transfer your data to them?
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  3. #3
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    $20 per 1TB is not 2007 pricing, its still realistic pricing. Are you kidding?

    $20 for 1TB is like $4/Mbps... which is perfectly good for such a small amount of pre-paid usage.


    So you are a tiny customer, you want tiny pricing, and you sound like you will jump between hosts -- who wants that type of customer at all?
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  4. #4
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    Hello Encrypted, i'm doing a PhD on text mining and just need the servers to gather the corpus for further study. And there is no way i can download 96 TB (4U Storage Server with 24x 4TB disks). As i said, a very special demand.

    @Gotzmann: I think it is. And i'm not talking about just buying 1 TB, i'm talking about this price even for purchasing 50-100 TB monthly. I think every datacenter paying more then 5 Euro (US$ 6) per TB has a wrong contract with his carrier.

  5. #5
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    No datacenter pays by the TB. If you want real pricing, ask for bandwidth metering the same way the datacenter pays -- by the Mbps on 95th percentile.
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  6. #6
    Datacenters just don't want to work with small clients, especially if you have special arrangements because this causes overheat in support and as result it degrades their service to big clients.

    I think this is normal practice. It means that DCs found their place on market.

    For you i would recommend to ask re-sellers or to rent dedicated server. In some cases you will be able to arrange shipping of your HDDs even for rented servers.
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  7. #7
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    Just use somebody like FDC servers if you need cheap bandwidth. They have colo up to 4U in Europe (Zlin) for $59 100mbps unmetered or $159 for 1gbps unmetered. It may not be the best bandwidth in the world but is sounds like what you are looking for.
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  8. #8
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    Is it just me, or is this thread's title totally misleading?

    --Chris
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by llothar View Post
    I think every datacenter paying more then 5 Euro (US$ 6) per TB has a wrong contract with his carrier.
    I think you just have a very wrong idea about real bandwidth pricing.

    5 Euro (6$ USD) per TB works to to just 1 Euro or 1.2 USD per Mbps. What about the cost of x-connects, transport, network equipment, overhead, and (egads!) margin? You should not expect to see that pricing on <1Gbps, and even then, only with lower cost transit providers in the mix.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by llothar View Post
    For a project i need some very special equipped servers that i can't find in no normal hosting plan - storage servers which allow me to take the disks to home/competitor when i cancel the contract.

    I've checked many offers the last days found that most colocations for 4U and less have almost vanished and the few offers i get from data centers are often stuck in the prices from 2007 (like $20 per TB transfer) and long contract times. A'm i right or just bad in researching the offers. I'm especially talking about european hosters.
    If you colocate then the equipment is yours and you would not have any issues of keeping the equipment, it is yours anyway. If you go for dedicated servers, most web hosting providers will be more than happy to allow you to take the hard drives (storage devices) with you as they'd be probably depreciated at the end of your project.

    All serious Colocation providers offers 4U rack mount plans. The bandwidth is quite inexpensive in Europe as there are many companies that are well connected to various Internet Exchanges.

    In other words, you don't have worries to move forward on your project.

    PS: If Cloud drives business to someone it is to data center and Colocation providers as there's always someone who would like to deploy a Cloud-based infrastructure. "Cloud" is not a bunch of consumer oriented IaaS and/or PaaS. It is pretty much enterprise technology.
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  11. #11
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    OP, have you gotten any quotes yet? There are a ton of companies that will do 4U. Most of them will do 1-2U if they're a data center reseller.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectZone View Post
    Is it just me, or is this thread's title totally misleading?

    --Chris
    Lol I thought this was going to be a really entertaining and worthwhile discussion on the future of dedicated hosting when I clicked on the title
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    5 Euro (6$ USD) per TB works to to just 1 Euro or 1.2 USD per Mbps.
    Not that I think you're wrong on this, but could you elaborate on how you're making these conversions? I've tried to wrap my head around it, but I either get close to $20/Mbps or close to $0.02/Mbps, so I'm clearly doing something quite wrong.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfried View Post
    Not that I think you're wrong on this, but could you elaborate on how you're making these conversions? I've tried to wrap my head around it, but I either get close to $20/Mbps or close to $0.02/Mbps, so I'm clearly doing something quite wrong.
    It should be something like this:

    Theoretically 1Mbps pushed 24/7 for a month would be ~300GB.
    In a perfect world at a constant stream rate, it would require ~3.5Mbps to transfer 1TB in a month. At $1.70/Mbit, it'd be approximately $6 to push 1TB.

    Factor in for other real-world dynamics and you can get a closer estimate.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfried View Post
    Not that I think you're wrong on this, but could you elaborate on how you're making these conversions? I've tried to wrap my head around it, but I either get close to $20/Mbps or close to $0.02/Mbps, so I'm clearly doing something quite wrong.
    Typically, you see about 200GB of bandwidth, average sustained, for every 1Mbps of 95th percentile. So simply take the price/TB and divide it by 5 for price/Mbps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGoldman View Post
    It should be something like this:

    Theoretically 1Mbps pushed 24/7 for a month would be ~300GB.
    In a perfect world at a constant stream rate, it would require ~3.5Mbps to transfer 1TB in a month. At $1.70/Mbit, it'd be approximately $6 to push 1TB.

    Factor in for other real-world dynamics and you can get a closer estimate.
    That's the conversion rate you'd use for 50th percentile. In order to convert to 95th percentile, you'd need to factor in the standard deviation, which in theory works out to something like 1.645 times the standard deviation using the z value in a normal distribution, but standard deviations will vary from port to port also so there is no accurate direct conversion possible.

    With real world empirical results, you'll see somewhere between 180-250GB per Mbps 90%+ of the time, or at least I did when doing some analysis with a sample size of ~10,000 some years ago. 200GB is just an easy number to use, slightly on the conservative side.
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  16. #16
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    hhw is correct, I typically use between 150-200GB per 1Mbps as the conversion. Seeing higher than 200GB is very rare.
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  17. #17
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    Thanks @jgoldman @hhw and @cgotzmann. My brain must have thought it was Friday yesterday; any way I turned that problem it just wasn't coming out right for me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectZone View Post
    Is it just me, or is this thread's title totally misleading?

    --Chris
    No the title is correct but the thread went in a different way i didn't want to talk about initially.

    I didn't ask to comment on my personal problem (i just mentioned it to explain why there is need for personal customized servers - bad mistake).

    The question is still. Do we see Colocation options disappearing because all data centers and large resellers go into maintaining a homogenous hardware equipment?

    Did globalisation/optimisation again kill all individuality?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by llothar View Post
    The question is still. Do we see Colocation options disappearing because all data centers and large resellers go into maintaining a homogenous hardware equipment?

    Did globalisation/optimisation again kill all individuality?
    Quite the contrary. Amazon and others are now focusing a lot of effort on specialized hardware not homogenous hardware.

    In terms of colo versus cloud, I recently took a look at cost savings of going with colocation versus using the Amazon cloud for hosting STH. After 13 months the colo option saved about $5500. That article was a fairly popular read.
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  20. #20
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    A couple of prospects that we were talking to about getting colo. They insisted that cloud is better than colo (on a side note not every one knows what colo/data center is) So here they debated that they needed a private cloud and do that with 3-4 cabinets. I had to ask them where are they gonna put the cloud. It spooked them out.

    So to answer OP's questions, no cloud is not killing colo, infact colo is backbone to cloud (yeah its not up in the air, it has to be somewhere in a data center)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectZone View Post
    Is it just me, or is this thread's title totally misleading?

    --Chris
    Same here. Are we discussing the cloud vs colo and the changing market or bandwidth pricing?

    Clouds are built in datacenters, they are not in competition with one another. Use a cloud until your needs are large enough to go colocation. There is A LOT more to colo than just renting some space. Hosting is too mature to be reinventing the wheel.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjkenned View Post
    Quite the contrary. Amazon and others are now focusing a lot of effort on specialized hardware not homogenous hardware.

    In terms of colo versus cloud, I recently took a look at cost savings of going with colocation versus using the Amazon cloud for hosting STH. After 13 months the colo option saved about $5500. That article was a fairly popular read.

    Yes colocation is cheaper and thats why i think it is dropped. And i can only say that in the german/central europe market colocation is almost dropped by everyone. I only get dedicated servers which i simply can't use because they don't fit me.

    Before i had about a dozend affordable options, now i'm left with just one (Hetzner) and one in Netherlands (i3D) and FDC server where i can only find horror stories about their network/customer support/performance/reliability/whatever.

    So i simply can't get your argument that colocation is doing fine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by llothar View Post
    Yes colocation is cheaper and thats why i think it is dropped. And i can only say that in the german/central europe market colocation is almost dropped by everyone. I only get dedicated servers which i simply can't use because they don't fit me.

    Before i had about a dozend affordable options, now i'm left with just one (Hetzner) and one in Netherlands (i3D) and FDC server where i can only find horror stories about their network/customer support/performance/reliability/whatever.

    So i simply can't get your argument that colocation is doing fine.
    I shop in the USA and I still have many good options for colocation here. Perhaps there are fewer options, but still an acceptable number that I'm not terribly concerned. If the market has thinned out really bad in your region, there could be outside concerns other than a normal business need - government oversight/regulation, electric availability, taxation issues, man-power, etc.

    What is your impression of availability of raw caged datacenter space in your region? That could provide additional hints as to what is happening to cause the divide between rented and owned.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectZone View Post
    If the market has thinned out really bad in your region, there could be outside concerns other than a normal business need - government oversight/regulation, electric availability, taxation issues, man-power, etc.
    Don't forget that it could also just be a saturated market returning to the norm. It could very well be that the markets were still full of players who jumped on during a boom and are just now getting off (or are just now reaching the numbers where you notice).

  25. #25
    I would say that the cloud market is fueling rapid colocation expansion. New facilities with 500,000+ sqr/ft of raised floor is popping up everywhere.
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