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  1. #101
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    I am very excited to learn more about this product! Whether they admit it or not, this puts them even further in direct competition with Applogic. I don't have much experience with Applogic itself, but I have heard a bunch of people complain about performance issues on their distributed storage platform. I wonder if OnApp will be able to overcome this.

    Also, I really wonder if this product will be able to perform as a replacement for a high-end SAN, or if it will be the "budget" version of setting up an OnApp cloud with poor IO and performance. Too bad they wont have any caching system from the start. I also wish they were a little more public with their planned pricing structure! It's hard to decide whether or not to evaluate their system if you don't even know what the pricing looks like or if it'd make any sense for your organization.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    but this isn't a single san, its better than that... thats why its good.
    its distributed storage similar to applogic's implementation.

    my only worry is using onapp might associate a company with being just another amateur hour reseller/vps host who does not have a solid setup.
    fighting the 'perception' of being an onapp cloud provider due to some of the types of people using it, is adding an obstacle to gaining business that one shouldnt have for no reason.
    OnApp is just a software, the software is just as good as it's foundation, and the same goes to cPanel or Plesk.

    Many larger hosting companies are using OnApp too and so far haven't been bothered by others who run poor service.

    End of the day, we are automating a lot of your manual work, you focus on what you should do, infrastructure stability and awesome support.

  3. #103
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    Sep 2004
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    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
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    Nobody else finds highly ironic what is the source of this "holy grail" in network storage?

  4. #104
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    Hmmm... could give AppLogic a run now that they have a solution to storage performance / redundancy...
    We're using OnApp with Open-E, seems to be working quite well.

  5. #105
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    Sep 2005
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    London
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Andreias View Post
    Nobody else finds highly ironic what is the source of this "holy grail" in network storage?
    OK OK - I'll humor you..."the source"?
    Ditlev Bredahl. CEO,
    OnApp.com + Cloud.net & CDN.net

  6. #106
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    Feb 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by eming View Post
    OK OK - I'll humor you..."the source"?
    Maybe it's a Monty Python reference. I seek.. the grail!
    Scott Burns, President
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  7. #107
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    Jul 2011
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    We are actually looking forward to testing the OnApp vSAN product at some point. It will be interesting to see how it performs compared to our SAN setup.
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  8. #108
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    May 2004
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    Atlanta, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Nice. The AOC-SG-i2 is actually pretty affordable too. Provantage has it for around $75 and wiredzone for around $80. If the twin squared already comes with the riser installed, that's a plus as I had a heck of a time finding compatible risers that actually worked properly back when I needed to do that.

    The price on the AOC-EXPX9502FXSR hurts ($2200 or more), but what can you expect for dual 10gbe
    actually, there is a much cheaper dual 10GbE low-profile PCIe 8-lane adapter available from supermicro: AOC-STG-i2 (Intel 82598EB; 2x CX4 connector):
    http://www.supermicro.com/manuals/other/AOC-STG-I2.pdf

    superbiiz sells it for $436:
    http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AOC-STG-I2
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by cwl@apaqdigital View Post
    actually, there is a much cheaper dual 10GbE low-profile PCIe 8-lane adapter available from supermicro: AOC-STG-i2 (Intel 82598EB; 2x CX4 connector):
    http://www.supermicro.com/manuals/other/AOC-STG-I2.pdf

    superbiiz sells it for $436:
    http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AOC-STG-I2
    Ah ok, that looks cool. I take it my switches need to have cx4 connectors for their 10g ports if I want to use those? I just would use the appropriate pluggable (xfp or sfp+) module to get cx4 instead of fiber on my switches right?
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  10. #110
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    Feb 2002
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    A good alternative to 10GE is Infiniband. We use 40Gbps (QDR) Infiniband gear for our private Xen cloud, and it came out around the same price as 10GE would have been. Surplus 20Gbps (DDR) Infiniband gear is even cheaper. An 8-port 40Gbps Infiniband switch runs about $220/port.

    What I'd really like to see is a cheap SAN solution that uses SAS HBAs connected to a SAS switch. An SFF-8088 cable with a 6Gbps HBA can handle 24Gbps (4 channels in wide mode), and a 16-port SAS switch only costs $2000 ($125/port). The SCST project has some beta-quality SAS target mode drivers that someone could invest in polishing.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    A simple process for dumping snapshots to nearline SATA and distributing the backups would be ideal. My one big knock on most SAN vendors is their inability to provide a simple mechanism to yank snapshots onto commodity hardware.
    The HP P4000/Lefthand solution allows you to do this. For every pair of SAN modules, you get 10 free VSA licenses to run on commodity hardware. We use this setup currently, and saves us a heap by not having to buy another SAN from HP for our backups!

    The OnApp solution definitely looks interesting, especially considering the ability to use completely commodity hardware!

  12. #112
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    Mar 2003
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    California USA
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    Ditlev,

    How much bandwidth is needed between hypervisors? How much does the interconnection of the devices affect performance?
    What kind of performance degradation do we see during a 'rebuild' or if a hypervisor drops off?
    How hard is it to reinsert a dead hypervisor into the storage pool?
    When you need to scale? How intensive is the operation? Does it complete a full rebuild?
    Steven Ciaburri | Industry's Best Server Management - Rack911.com
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  13. #113
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    May 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Ah ok, that looks cool. I take it my switches need to have cx4 connectors for their 10g ports if I want to use those? I just would use the appropriate pluggable (xfp or sfp+) module to get cx4 instead of fiber on my switches right?
    if you rather have SFP+, these Intel 82599 based dual 10GbE NIC cards are just bit over $500:
    Intel X520-DA
    supermicro AOC-STGN-I2S
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  14. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Reston, VA
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    HP once had a "bullet proof san" they made a video of them putting a bullet through it and it kept running
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  15. #115
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    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    HP once had a "bullet proof san" they made a video of them putting a bullet through it and it kept running
    Ah, the old 'nonstop' gear

  16. #116
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    Mar 2006
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    Reston, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanD View Post
    Ah, the old 'nonstop' gear
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFyXlb26ihs
    Yellow Fiber Networks
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  17. #117
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    Jul 2005
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Nice. Took them longer to go through all the disclaimers at the end of the video than to actually shoot the thing

  18. #118
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    Aug 2004
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    Ditlev,

    How much bandwidth is needed between hypervisors? How much does the interconnection of the devices affect performance?
    What kind of performance degradation do we see during a 'rebuild' or if a hypervisor drops off?
    How hard is it to reinsert a dead hypervisor into the storage pool?
    When you need to scale? How intensive is the operation? Does it complete a full rebuild?
    I'm wondering the same things about this and I ended up sending an email out to them. I just haven't got around to filling out the form they sent back
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyB View Post
    I'm wondering the same things about this and I ended up sending an email out to them. I just haven't got around to filling out the form they sent back
    Its really good question no one really has asked about. Wish ditlev would come spread some info.
    Steven Ciaburri | Industry's Best Server Management - Rack911.com
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  20. #120
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    Aug 2006
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    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
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    I can't imagine this being amazing at anything less than 10G speeds on the storage backend. You have to take into account the network traffic generated by redundancy/duplication/failover on top of normal I/O..
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  21. #121
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    Aug 2000
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    Sheffield, South Yorks
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    Quote Originally Posted by bqinternet View Post
    A good alternative to 10GE is Infiniband. We use 40Gbps (QDR) Infiniband gear for our private Xen cloud, and it came out around the same price as 10GE would have been. Surplus 20Gbps (DDR) Infiniband gear is even cheaper. An 8-port 40Gbps Infiniband switch runs about $220/port.
    I can't understand why more vendors aren't doing IB, especially for storage - the latency is 1/10th of iSCSI (or less) as long as you're not using IPoIB and using all the nice RDMA stuff.
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  22. #122
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    Feb 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDAWebServices View Post
    I can't understand why more vendors aren't doing IB, especially for storage - the latency is 1/10th of iSCSI (or less) as long as you're not using IPoIB and using all the nice RDMA stuff.
    Probably because it's unfamiliar. Even as a simple alternative to 10GE, using IPoIB is still pretty fast. Using RDMA capabilities, like SRP for storage, or SDP for high performance sockets, is even faster.

    Infiniband is continuing to move ahead. We use 40Gbps gear (32Gbps usable with 8/10 encoding), but now they have 56Gbps (~54.5Gbps with 64/66 encoding) cards and switches on the market.
    Scott Burns, President
    BQ Internet Corporation
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  23. #123
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    Mar 2011
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    122
    Quote Originally Posted by KDAWebServices View Post
    I can't understand why more vendors aren't doing IB... as long as you're not using IPoIB and using all the nice RDMA stuff.
    This our storage is ip based

  24. #124
    These virtual SAN vendors are poping up all over the place. Have a look at Datacore, Starwind, Falconstor, HP VSA. The list goes on...

  25. #125
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    Mar 2003
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    California USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    I can't imagine this being amazing at anything less than 10G speeds on the storage backend. You have to take into account the network traffic generated by redundancy/duplication/failover on top of normal I/O..
    I agree, but I have had a customer been told 2 x 1ge is just fine which makes me raise a eye brow.
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