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  1. #1

    HUGE Trouble on horizon for pair.com? Please help me.

    Today I got these numbers back from my server @ pair.com

    > xxxxxx.pair.com
    > Tue Jul 11 12:33:37 EDT 2006
    > 12:33PM up 5 days, 10:05, 1 user, load averages: 17.33, 6.56, 3.11
    >

    I sent them this email:

    >
    > Is this normal?
    >

    I got this back:

    Hi,

    Yes, don't worry, those are completely normal numbers. Just as an FYI, you can check the live performance of your server by using the command "top". Type "man top" for more information on the tool.

    Sincerely,
    xxxx
    pair Networks, Inc.
    support@pair.com


    --------------------------------

    Just got off the phone with support and was told that yes, 17.xx is "Nothing to get all bent out of shape over" -- Really!!!!! (I said, "Well, not for you, it isn't your livelyhood that is effected." -- He didn't seem to care.)

    I know pair.com is considered the best of the best here... Can somebody help me with this... maybe pair.com lurks here?

    Thanks,

    Pete

    (I have the names of who I spoke with, etc.) -- but I'll try it the "nice" way since I'm scared they are now going to ruin my site or play some kind of horrible games.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Any server load above 4 on a dual cpu server will begin to affect page loading time and will begin to make the whole server unstable.

    It depends how powerful the server is really. For a very powerful server, I can see it handling a load of up to 6 or 7, but a load of 17?! That's insanely high!

    Our company recently had a couple of users whose sites ran the server load up into the 20s and it caused sites on the whole of the server to load very, very slowly.

    If I were you I would query these high loads a little more.
    http://www.uniballhq.com - Free online multiplayer game
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    This doesn't seem like the pair.com that I'm familiar with. Maybe sigma (Kevin) will chime in and investigate.
    Simpli Networks, LLC :: http://www.simplinetworks.com :: Proudly 100% Owned.
    Providing Affordable Managed Cloud/VPS Servers & Server Management Solutions.
    We offer REAL 24x7x365 in-house support - proudly serving our customers since 2005!
    Want to learn more? Give us a call - +1 (844) 4SIMPLI or email sales[@]simplinetworks.com today!
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  4. #4
    Well, if anyone needs names... I have the name from the email reply and the name of the person I spoke with on the phone. It seems the person that replied in the email was the higher-up since the person on the phone had to "talk" to him...
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  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    Well, if anyone needs names... I have the name from the email reply and the name of the person I spoke with on the phone. It seems the person that replied in the email was the higher-up since the person on the phone had to "talk" to him...
    I would PM Kevin (sigma, CEO of Pair.com) with that information and he can investigate.
    Simpli Networks, LLC :: http://www.simplinetworks.com :: Proudly 100% Owned.
    Providing Affordable Managed Cloud/VPS Servers & Server Management Solutions.
    We offer REAL 24x7x365 in-house support - proudly serving our customers since 2005!
    Want to learn more? Give us a call - +1 (844) 4SIMPLI or email sales[@]simplinetworks.com today!
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  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    I would PM Kevin (sigma, CEO of Pair.com) with that information and he can investigate.
    Why should he have to go out of his way to contact a company's CEO via a public forum, especially for something that their staff should have taken care of?

    My advice: If they can't take care of you, find someone who can. A server load of 17 definitely is not normal (at least for quality companies).

    Good luck,
    Steve
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  7. #7
    I just PM'd sigma... we'll see what comes of it. This is the 3rd time I've had this problem... granted NOT in the teens... but still to the point where the page would not load. At one point he asked me if it was something on "my end" -- I said, "Huh? It's a .cgi script running on YOUR server... I am executing it on YOUR end..." -- did the guy think I was a total id10T?

    I have NO problem paying top dollar (and trust me, I get $10 a month for SSL, and then the regular hosting fee, etc.) -- for top-dollar hosting... but for me to have to go back and forth with their tech and then come here, and then write the CEO and then back and forth... only to wonder, "Will my site load when "Sussie Q. Customer" comes on it..." -- Well, I think we can agree, that really isn't fair to me.

    On top of all that, now that I said something here I have to worry that they are going to screw with my files. UGH. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

    Well... we'll see what comes of all this...

    Pete
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  8. #8
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    What is the load look like now? Did it ever come to mind perhaps this server was backing up something up?

    You have access to shell what processes were running? And yes if the system was compressing something large it could be conceived as normal.

    Stop with the jump ship all the time, try trusting in the good intentions of your host.
    I always did like the clouds
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  9. #9
    Here is the next email I just got:

    Hi,

    Yes, it is normal to have jumps in cpu usage. If you run uptime again, you'll see it is now much lower. And if you run uptime fairly often, you'll see it rarely gets anywhere near that, but it is normal to sometimes be that high.

    FreeBSD xxxxxxx.pair.com 4.8-STABLE FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE #0: Thu Apr 14 23:45:46 EDT 2005
    xxxxx@xxxxx.pair.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/PAIRqv i386
    2:40PM up 5 days, 12:12, 3 users, load averages: 0.22, 0.70, 0.83 <-------- much lower

    Sincerely,
    xxxx
    pair Networks, Inc.
    support@pair.com

    -----------------------------------

    Looks like what they're saying is, that from time to time it is normal for your page to not be able to load. UGH! --- I thought if I paid for a top-notch server I wouldn't have to deal with this crap.

    What do I do now??????
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by spulis
    What is the load look like now? Did it ever come to mind perhaps this server was backing up something up?

    You have access to shell what processes were running? And yes if the system was compressing something large it could be conceived as normal.

    Stop with the jump ship all the time, try trusting in the good intentions of your host.
    I have no idea what processes were running. All I know is if they do something to the system that makes it so the site won't load, what is the point of having the server? I don't have this problem with 3 of my other hosts... and I pay them LESS!
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  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    I have no idea what processes were running. All I know is if they do something to the system that makes it so the site won't load, what is the point of having the server? I don't have this problem with 3 of my other hosts... and I pay them LESS!

    You never mentioned in your initial post your site was not loading, how did you get those numbers by chance?

    I think you may have over done it a bit with the title of this thread.. no?
    I always did like the clouds
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  12. #12
    The numbers for system load describe the past 1, 5, and 15 minutes, respectively.

    Therefore, with the numbers you wrote (17.33, 6.56, 3.11), the system load averaged 17.33 for only the last minute. And of course, that minute will also bump up the 5 and 15 minutes averages a bit too.

    The point is, the 17.33 seems to just be a brief, temporary bump in the road. Now if you have sustained loads that high for a long period of time, that could very well indicate a problem. However, a short spike for 1 minute is nothing to worry about.....and certainly not indicative of "HUGE Trouble" for pair.com.
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  13. #13
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    Pete, I got your PM but it contained no identifying information. Can you send me another message or e-mail me so I can investigate?

    All of our server loads are available through our Web site, and all 400+ servers are generally below 1.0. Any and all load spikes are monitored and investigated through our internal systems.

    You should not have been advised that 17 was "normal", although by the time your ticket was received, apparently the load was in fact back to normal.

    Again, if you can send me the identifying information, I can investigate.

    Kevin
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  14. #14
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    Shell out some cash for a better dedicated server if necessary. Seriously though once in a blue moon you can expect high loads ie compressing large files or backing up the system.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    > xxxxxx.pair.com
    > Tue Jul 11 12:33:37 EDT 2006
    > 12:33PM up 5 days, 10:05, 1 user, load averages: 17.33, 6.56, 3.11
    I haven't received any details, so I correlated this against our internal monitoring. The server in question had two load spikes, one around 9:45am and another at 12:30pm. Both were investigated by staff. I don't have notes handy on the resolution, but the server has had load around 1.x or below since that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    (I have the names of who I spoke with, etc.) -- but I'll try it the "nice" way since I'm scared they are now going to ruin my site or play some kind of horrible games.
    What kind of horrible games? We're professionals. If you received an unsatisfactory response, I would appreciate knowing more about it (names, ticket IDs, etc), by PM or e-mail.

    Thanks,
    Kevin
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  16. #16
    Hmmm... no, I don't think I over-did-it with the title. You try having your lively-hood stop and THEN be told server times of 17.xx are no big deal... especaially when I couldn't load my own page as a result of it.

    sigma,

    I will email you the actual mails...

    Thanks,

    Pete

    (P.S. Sigma, I also have a portion of the conversation on audio tape if you would like me to call you, I can play it for you.)
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sigma
    I haven't received any details, so I correlated this against our internal monitoring. The server in question had two load spikes, one around 9:45am and another at 12:30pm. Both were investigated by staff. I don't have notes handy on the resolution, but the server has had load around 1.x or below since that time.



    What kind of horrible games? We're professionals. If you received an unsatisfactory response, I would appreciate knowing more about it (names, ticket IDs, etc), by PM or e-mail.

    Thanks,
    Kevin
    Horrible games like the techs that told me these numbers are "normal" aren't going to be too happy that I am not a big enough idiot to know that if a site can't load and I'm seeing 17.xx server load times, this isn't "normal"... I am sure you're a professional, and I'm sure that in a perfect world things like this won't happen... but the world isn't perfect.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    Hmmm... no, I don't think I over-did-it with the title. You try having your lively-hood stop and THEN be told server times of 17.xx are no big deal... especaially when I couldn't load my own page as a result of it.

    sigma,

    I will email you the actual mails...

    Thanks,

    Pete

    (P.S. Sigma, I also have a portion of the conversation on audio tape if you would like me to call you, I can play it for you.)
    If my lively-hood depended on a website I would not be hosting it in a shared environment.
    I always did like the clouds
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelized
    Shell out some cash for a better dedicated server if necessary. Seriously though once in a blue moon you can expect high loads ie compressing large files or backing up the system.
    My usage doesn't even come close to needing a dedicated server... but we can let sigma tell you that!

    ---

    As far as how I got the numbers, pair.com offers a .cgi script from their own site -- it is the first thing I do when I can't load my page or if my page takes forever to load. I was told the last time it happened that they try to keep it under 1.00 but at times it does hit the 5.xx range... and then it gets their attention. That was cool with me. But 17.xx -- and then the answers from the techs... ? Well, duh, I wasn't too happy.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spulis
    If my lively-hood depended on a website I would not be hosting it in a shared environment.
    My other two sites are also hosted on a shared environment and I do not have this kind of a problem. How do you explain that?
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    Hmmm... no, I don't think I over-did-it with the title. You try having your lively-hood stop and THEN be told server times of 17.xx are no big deal... especaially when I couldn't load my own page as a result of it.
    IMO, you did over-do it. Your server load (not "server time" as your said) was 17.33 for ONE minute. If it was sustained for at this level, then you would have problems. But as others have said, a backup could cause this, or compressing a large file, or a PHP script run out of control by one of the other users on the host. I'd be willing to bet that at some time or another you probably have caused a brief spike on the server too....it happens. But I think its clear that pair.com was on the ball and kept this from getting out of control.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    (P.S. Sigma, I also have a portion of the conversation on audio tape if you would like me to call you, I can play it for you.)
    You tape your conversations with support?
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  22. #22
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    I don't thing it needs to be explained call it luck, however you simply stated your lively-hood depended on this website.

    You then place your lively-hood in an environment were you will at times have issues like this.
    I always did like the clouds
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    My usage doesn't even come close to needing a dedicated server... but we can let sigma tell you that!
    Perhaps in terms of storage and bandwidth needs. But if you really want to have your website be isolated from other users, you cannot get that from shared hosting.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyPete
    As far as how I got the numbers, pair.com offers a .cgi script from their own site -- it is the first thing I do when I can't load my page or if my page takes forever to load. I was told the last time it happened that they try to keep it under 1.00 but at times it does hit the 5.xx range... and then it gets their attention. That was cool with me. But 17.xx -- and then the answers from the techs... ? Well, duh, I wasn't too happy.
    I've received the details from you and I am investigating further. The initial response you received was not entirely correct, and we do not dismiss load of 17 as "normal" or "acceptable" - each such instance is investigated.

    Your initial support query did not specify that you were having any trouble loading your site, although of course that does not excuse a casual answer to the query.

    Kevin
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  25. #25
    I may be crazy, but when a person says 17.xx is normal, I have to have it on tape for people to hear, or who would believe me!

    Did they fix the problem? I don't know if they did. They say they did, and the site is now under 1.xx -- but will it happen everyday? Every week? Will it happen when a customer is putting her credit card info into the system?

    So, yes, I'm crazy... see me name (CrazyPete) -- But I think I'm fair. I pay for a service, and when I'm told something is "normal" and when asked if it is normal I am told, "I've seen worse" -- by tech... then, yes. I'm happy I have it all on tape.

    God Bless You!
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