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  1. #1

    WebDev wanting to host for clients

    Hello,
    I'm a Rails web developer with previous server administration experience. The support for that platform in Poland is rather poor and if exists its expensive. I've been working with rails 2.3 (its been a struggle with low quality hostings) and I want to move to Rails 3. When I advertize the pros of this platform to my clients there comes the question "If its so new and modern what about hosting?". That's been stopping me from earning good money as a freelancer do I wanna remedy that. Since I have some previous experience as a server admin I thought about getting a VPS to start hosting for my clients.

    Opposite to most topics I've seen here I do not by any means want it to become my main line of business. I just want to be able to give a straight answer to a client and stop the struggle with folks not knowing the first thing about the Rails platform and hosting stuff(It often led me to disaster).

    I already have a few people in mind that according to my calculations (pessimistic) would allow me to break even *IF* I bought the VPS.

    On a side note I often work for small businesses so just telling them something like "Go find yourself a host in Germany or France or whatever" is out of the question since exchange rates make the prices unbearable for a small company to pay for just hosting their webpage. Also if they don't deal abroad it's a bit problematic.

    I've been unable to find a reseller supporting rails 3 over here and not charging plain outrages money for it. Thus my question. Is VPS my only option or am I missing something?

    If VPS is my best bet pointers on how to do it according to industry standards tho on a far smaller scale would by nice as all the materials I've seen on creating something like that were of questionable quality and I want to do it right. I'd like to point out I've got experience as a Linux server admin so I believe if I'm qualified to do it in such a scale if I'm pointed in the right direction.

  2. #2
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    i don't have any experience with them, but http://www.a2hosting.com/web-develop...-rails-hosting

    However, if i were you, i would get a cheap dedicated server from kimsufi. As you have linux experience, this shouldn't be so complicated to setup... and after that you can get some money out of it...
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  3. #3
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    Hi scorpiopl,

    Interesting post, my understanding is that rails can be resource intensive which may be why you may have had a hard time with shared hosting as usually shared hosting servers are massively oversold.

    The much more expensive shared hosting with rails support is probably more expensive than a VPS without any of the flexibility.

    The good thing about going on to a VPS is that even at the lower end of the market you will probably be able to get a more predictable environment to work with and also the option of starting small while you get your environment set up and then seamless flexible upgrading as the demand grows.

    My suggestion would be to give that slightly edited post as a pitch to a few VPS hosts, that sort of thing is likely to get you a free trial while you check out the art of the possible.

    Most VPS hosts will not have the level of experience with rails as you do if any at all so I would not expect to much by way of support directly for your projects (not that you will need it I guess) but they may be able to assist with setting up some sort of base environment for you to build on.

    Fully Managed VPS hosts are probably not ideal either as they wont offer support for rails anyway and you will be paying extra for nothing especially considering your admin experience.

    Perhaps something like a VPS with ISP Config 3 with rails would be a starting point, its a good free alternative to cPanel and if the focus is on rails then you probably dont want the bells and whistles of cPanel but a good solid environment that allows you to very quickly set up hosting accounts for your clients/customers.

    Hope that is of some use to you.
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  4. #4
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    As has been said, the average management service won't cover rails, especially rails 3 as the new scripting addons are just insane to work with.

    A VPS would definitely work better for though though, as ideally in a dev environment you need full control, I feel shared hosting may just be too restrictive for you, even with rails enabled.

  5. #5
    It seems my initial assumptions have been confirmed.

    Extended version:
    The thing is I know my way around administering a system like that but I've got little idea how to build it from the ground up. And I'd love some guidelines because I wanna do it right as I believe that not being my primary focus or being small aren't excuses for poor quality. (On the other hand most today's giants started out in homes, garages, sheds etc. so small does not mean bound to fail - I hope )

    Short Version:
    Anyways. Any clarification (that's proven to be solid) on how to do it right would be priceless.

    Clarification:
    And to be very clear I don't expect to become the next Jobs from this VPS admin stuff nor do I believe it will come easy but on a such a fresh market that is Rails (especially Rails 3) on a national market that has nothing to offer one may have a quiet small hope, right?

  6. #6
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    Another advantage with a VPS being that you can afford to get it wrong a few times while your testing out the building of the service as it takes all of 30 seconds to reinstall the OS via the control panel

    My suggestion (I cant give you much on the rails 3 part) is to simply take out a VPS or request a test period from a host and set up a control panel such as ISP Config 3 or even Kloxo, upgrade the rails version to 3, create a test hosting account and see how it does.

    To start with I guess you will need a domain name, then you will need to register your name servers and point them at the VPS (1 IP will be fine while your just setting up.)

    <<snipped>>
    Last edited by bear; 12-10-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  7. #7
    I'm hesitant as to the OS to pick for the VPS, whats the best for the job? I'm thinking Ubuntu-server(not such a hog without gnome 3 and Xubuntu is my work pick so I know my way around *buntu best - all installations via terminal anyway) or a Debian

    Kloxo only works on CentOS 5 I'm afraid.

    Most folks repeat the word CentOS 5.x like a mantra but I've got very bad memories about this system. Namely the repos are from the stone age. Everything needs to be compiled from source. I do know how, of course but It's another thing that needs to be done and with webdev, hosting and a private side project I won't have a lot to spare. Secondly It's a pain compared to just typing 1 command in the console and see it nicely install (and hopefully work).

    Second issue is the control panel. I've done a lot of reading and I came up with ISP Config 3 as well, but I wonder will I be able to add a start/stop/generate tab on it like cPanel has or will I need to write a separate mini app for it (that would be confusing and messy) I've also noticed it has no ssh as far as I remember and with rails a terminal is kinda a must-have.

  8. #8
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    So far everyone has hit the nail on the head when it comes to this request, The average management solution/assistance service will not cover rails, let alone rails 3 unless your paying for a dedicated-admin to assist you that has learned and studied the ins and outs of it, but that could get pricey. The new style of scripting add-ons are just crazy to even work with when using Rails 3.

    But to your questions, Shared hosting would limit you a whole lot... You would have better success in getting a VPS as it gives you the full-control feeling, and gives you the 'dev abilities' to do what you want with the server and services being ran on it, as shared is limited to what the webserver-node is configured and setup under by the provider you choose and limits your options, controls, and things that are supported such as rails, now, don't get me wrong you might find a provider that has rails supported with shared hosting, but even if you do...you will still reach limits of what your allowed to do and what is supported by the overall webserver your account would be placed on.

    Your best bet would to be to go with a Virtual Private Server and set it up, and manage it exactly how you want, and maybe get a basic management add-on to assist you with things you might not know 100% in the configuration and setup, and overall management of the server down the road.

    Good luck, and I hope the best.

    -D.

  9. #9
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    Not too sure about the shell access module in ispconfig tbh.

    Perhaps web/virtualmin would offer the degree of modular flexability you need and very easy to add custom command modules/functions

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by backtogeek View Post
    Perhaps web/virtualmin would offer the degree of modular flexability you need (...)
    That's the thing. I can't really spend few months testing panels alone. I need to find a way of figuring out where I can add any sort of terminal access and a rails start/stop/generate/delete functionality without a month of code/language study. It's a new market sure but it won't stay new forever and I'd like to get back to webdev asap and the lack of hosting options for rails 3 (fed up with 2.3.x) makes it impossible for the moment.

    I've tried googling but I've got no conclusive answer and yes as much as I don't like to ask for things being handed to me in this case its the only viable option.

    PS. It seems my info was a bit dated. seems a month ago they added ssh login. but that still leaves out rails support.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpiopl View Post
    I've been unable to find a reseller supporting rails 3 over here and not charging plain outrages money for it. Thus my question. Is VPS my only option or am I missing something?
    having your own server/service for the hosting will at least give you some control over the quality of what gets delivered to your clients.

    Where you should rent that from is less about where your clients are based, and more about where their clients are based
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by othellotech View Post
    (...)Where you should rent that from is less about where your clients are based, and more about where their clients are based
    As I've never gone beyond small business it's all one country. The server itself is in Germany but any European server will do (both in theory and practice from what I've learned being an end-user of many EU based services/sites but I think it's something we all experienced )

    I'd say that I'm done picking the general solution for the most part. I think I'll go with Ubuntu and ISP Config 3. I'm just not sure If I should use Apache or Nginx tho.(I'm more convinced about Nginx as my focus is Rails and both have PHP compatibility. Also Nginx seems to be more lightweight as far as I've been able to find out)

    Things I still don't have/know:
    1.Tutorial on how to create a shared host correctly
    2.Guide/hint/directions regarding adding Rails start stop tab to ISPConfig 3

  13. #13
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    nginx is definitely better performance wise however it can also introduce complications if you use it as part of a larger application stack.

    http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-se...nx-ispconfig-3

    That link may help in the first instance to get ISP Config installed and set up if the host you choose does not have a ready made ISP Config template.

    Once it is installed you need to get who ever you buy the domain from to register your name servers or provide guidance on doing that (not hard) and point an A record at your server, e.g. ns1.scorpiopl.com -> 1.2.3.4

    From that point once everything has replicated DNS wise you should be good to go creating shared hosting accounts etc simply having the clients pointing their nameservers at your VPS ns1.* servers

    You could go one step further and get an enom account so you can register the domains for clients also and have them automatically pointing at your server but that will require a deposit of at least $100 with enom.

    As far as adding a rails start/stop tab to ISP config, I dont know if that offers much help: http://www.howtoforge.com/apache2-mo...2.20-and-above or at least a starting point for a bit of info.
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  14. #14
    I'm using:
    http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-se...04-ispconfig-3

    That link may help in the first instance to get ISP Config installed and set up if the host you choose does not have a ready made ISP Config template.
    It says something about ISPConfig 3 being part of solusvm (as a template) but I'm not sure if that's what I want but no way to ask during the weekend.

    Once it is installed you need to get who ever you buy the domain from to register your name servers or provide guidance on doing that (not hard) and point an A record at your server, e.g. ns1.scorpiopl.com -> 1.2.3.4

    I'm familiar with the idea but thank you. One can never know what I might miss.

    From that point once everything has replicated DNS wise you should be good to go creating shared hosting accounts etc simply having the clients pointing their nameservers at your VPS ns1.* servers
    That was my intention. I've seen it done on hosting plans I've used.


    You could go one step further and get an enom account so you can register the domains for clients also and have them automatically pointing at your server but that will require a deposit of at least $100 with enom.
    Could you elaborate on that a bit more ?

    As far as adding a rails start/stop tab to ISP config, I dont know if that offers much help: http://www.howtoforge.com/apache2-mo...2.20-and-above or at least a starting point for a bit of info.
    Sadly this is quite old. There is a far better and cleaner way to install rails using Nginx and a very handy little tool called RVM (makes the rails installs clean and contained) so I can offer folks a fully customizable ENV without the danger of a rogue process killing my server. and if things go fubar i can nuke the account with a few simple lines. This way I save myself a lot of headache with compatibility issues as every project can have whats called a gemset and thus even a different version of ruby/rails isn't a problem if somebody would want it. I know how much I bugged my admin as they did not support this. It was a total mess.

    ok so at worst its straight forward ISPConfig 3 install.

    Still unresolved:
    Rails support in ISPConfig 3 panel.

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