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Thread: Internap?

  1. #1
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    Internap?

    Hello,

    Does anyone here use Internap?

    How is there service, and pricing?

    Would it be smarter to get mang good bandwidth providers and do BGP4 or just get Internap in your opinion?

    Does anyone have any clue how much internap is on a 100Mbps or a 1Gbps commitment?

    Thanks,
    Kyle Leissner

  2. #2
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    Best pricing I have heard of is $75/mbps on GIG-E with 100MBPS commit. Only seen that once and sometime ago. Not sure of current pricing. You will need to contact a rep. I would suggest trying FluidHosting with regards to pricing on InterNAP direct.

  3. #3
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    Internap is very expensive but the bandwidth is awesome. Gamers love the internap bandwidth very low pings stable and most of all Used by Speakeasy

  4. #4
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    Overpriced anyway you cut it... You can likely work out your own BGP mix with basically equal pings for half the price, maybe not quite half, but close.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  5. #5
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    Overpriced for your customers perhaps, but don't speak for mine

    Internap is much more than 'great pings', though I know that appeals to many. It's peace of mind. The Atlanta facility we're in has never experienced a loss of IP connectivity in its operating history. I've got a set of damn good engineers babysitting my network 24x7x365. Overpriced? Seems like a remarkable value to me.

  6. #6
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    Overpriced anyway you cut it... You can likely work out your own BGP mix with basically equal pings for half the price, maybe not quite half, but close.
    Remember, Internap does not just use BGP. Overprices, I really don't think so. They have a product that is unique and you will not find elsewhere.
    Mike @ Xiolink.com
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    Advanced Managed Microsoft Hosting
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  7. #7
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    again i probably shouldnt be posting in colo forums but who are the best dedicated server providers for internap?
    as i'm not quite willing yet to make the jump to colo!
    eXeGaming : Professional Gaming Organization

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    Overpriced anyway you cut it... You can likely work out your own BGP mix with basically equal pings for half the price, maybe not quite half, but close.
    How much would you think it would cost to build your own BGP mix of 7-9 transit providers (not to mention having direct peering with some others) and then to, more importantly, have somebody (not monkey) to maintain it.

    Can you run down a cost analysis? Say 10 Tier Providers, each of 100 Mbps to build a full 1 GBps BGP4 network. Oh yea ... do the intelligence routing too. Let's see if you can come close to half of what Internap's charging

    BTW, at 1 Gbps, the lowest price I heard is < $60/mbps. Can't confirm, but I think it can be done.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  9. #9
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    Overprice? not really. their product is unique and have acquire significant product differentiation.
    http://Ethr.net jay@ethr.net
    West Coast AT&T / Level3 / Savvis Bandwidth, Colocation, Dedicated Server, Managed IP Service, Hardware Load Balancing Service, Transport Service, 365 Main St, SFO / 200 Paul Ave, SFO / PAIX, PAO / Market Post Tower, 55 S. Market, SJC / 11 Great Oaks, Equinix, SJC

  10. #10
    Originally posted by jaali
    again i probably shouldnt be posting in colo forums but who are the best dedicated server providers for internap?
    as i'm not quite willing yet to make the jump to colo!
    For dedicated, check out www.dinix.com. For colocation check out www.fluidhosting.com or www.dinix.com.

    I would venture to say Dinix probably has a larger commit than FluidHosting so they're able to pass that savings on, but both companies have outstanding reputations and depending on what solution you're looking for I think you'll be quite satisfied. Dinix is in e^deltacom in Atlanta and FluidHosting is in Internap's facility in Boston.

  11. #11
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    loopforever, Do you do colo/Dedicateds or just shared hosting?

    Also could anyone recommend any other resellers of Internap on the east coast and/or Canada?


    Thanks!

  12. #12
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    I wish I could get quality bandwidth for $75 a meg here in Kansas City. It just doesn't happen around here. I understand that pricing is for 100 meg, but that's pricing I can deal with. You would pass out if you knew what I paid for the bandwidth in our primary datacenter. Luckily we just run a cross-connect to our office, so we don't have to pay that twice.
    Thank You,

    Chad McCan

  13. #13
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    Buy one of their Intelligent Routing devices from them, then it's not so unique... I know you can get one for under $50k.

    As for 10 providers, last I heard they use about 7 providers. On commits of over 100 on each of those, average price would likely be about $45 per mbit/sec. Then you buy a router and an intelligent routing device and you're good. Spend $80,000 initially to save $30,000 (Difference between $75 and $45 for a full GigE) a month sounds like a good deal to me. Should be able to pay a darn good network engineer for that much.

    It's just my opinion that you can get nearly the same stability and nearly the same speed for MUCH less. IAre the likes of Peer1 that much worse, they use C&W, UUNet, and Global Crossing with tons of peering I believe, that it's worth spending twice as much, or more for InterNAP.

    Originally posted by RackMy.com
    Remember, Internap does not just use BGP. Overprices, I really don't think so. They have a product that is unique and you will not find elsewhere.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 04-23-2004 at 01:55 AM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    Buy one of their Intelligent Routing devices from them, then it's not so unique... I know you can get one for under $50k.

    As for 10 providers, last I heard they use about 7 providers. On commits of over 100 on each of those, average price would likely be about $45 per mbit/sec. Then you buy a router and an intelligent routing device and you're good. Spend $80,000 initially to save $30,000 (Difference between $75 and $45 for a full GigE) a month sounds like a good deal to me. Should be able to pay a darn good network engineer for that much.

    Let's see ...

    1. Do-all-your-self (simplified version)
    - $4500/month (100 Mbps) * 10 = $45000/month for 1 Gbps total bw (The '10' is to make calculation easier)
    - $8000/month for one one good Network engineer.
    - $80000 initial cost, or ~$3350/month over 2 year period.
    - Monthly total: $56350/month for the first two years, $53000/month after.

    2. With Internap.
    - $0 initial setup cost
    - 24/7 great network engineers
    - last I heard, they did ~$57/mbps for GigE. So that's about $57000/month.

    So, not only will I be deep in a hole with $80000 initial cost, but that only translates to $650/month saving for the first two years and $4000/month saving later. If I need another network engineer, that will already more expensive than Internap. In return I think I still get less than Internap quality, or as you said, "nearly (not) the same stability and nearly (not) the same speed"

    Good, at least I know now doing my own BGP might not be worthed at all.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  15. #15
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    You're also double counting the $80,000....
    Either you're saving $4000 a month and in a $80,000 hole, or you're saving $600 a month for the first two years and $4000 a month after that, if you're spreading it out as a lease or loan. Either way, doing it yourself gets you much more flexibility and saves you some money. The $45 per mbit/sec is a high estimate, as I know I could get all the providers InterNAP uses, other than C&W, at $40 or less. Put the average at $40 and you're saving an additional $5000 a month. No matter what, with your own setup you have your own control over performance and cost. Things are getting too expensive, add a less expensive provider, things are going well and you can get your own peering, you already have your own engineer and intelligent routing device to do that, connectivity to certain networks isn't going well, add another provider. With going with JUST InterNAP you lose flexibility and pay more money for it just to have lower start-up expenses. If you asked me, I'd rather plan long term than short term.

    As a note, you did prove my point, it saves money to do it yourself. other notes on your commentary include: You should be able to find a network engineer for under $8000 a month, or else a full-time and part-time. You probably don't even need a single full-time network engineer to manage a single router in a single location, as the intelligent routing unit handles most of the hard stuff. Second, why would the quality and stability be any less than that of InterNAP? You're using the same providers and the same intelligent routing device, except you actually have more control over performance and price. One more quick thing, the $80,000 isn't just being thrown away, but put toward assets which you would be able to sell at a later date if needed.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 04-23-2004 at 05:57 AM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  16. #16
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    where is the double counting?
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  17. #17
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    Where's the pricing of the redundant Juniper router, dual entrance fiber, ONS/Optera to run the Sonet ring (this can be brought from provider), redundant switches...
    http://Ethr.net jay@ethr.net
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  18. #18
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    ah yea ... redundancy ... Almost forgot about that ...

    And what good will all these redundancies in place if we can't get redundant network engineers

    So, it seems building your own network and pay close to what I would be paying with Internap will get me a less network quality (not even near) without all the redundancies in place.
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  19. #19
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    Intelligent routing works, but it doens't mean you can get away without BGP engineers around the clock staffing the NOC incase anything needs adjustment by hand or to handle DOS.
    http://Ethr.net jay@ethr.net
    West Coast AT&T / Level3 / Savvis Bandwidth, Colocation, Dedicated Server, Managed IP Service, Hardware Load Balancing Service, Transport Service, 365 Main St, SFO / 200 Paul Ave, SFO / PAIX, PAO / Market Post Tower, 55 S. Market, SJC / 11 Great Oaks, Equinix, SJC

  20. #20
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    Should be able to pay a darn good network engineer for that much.
    Funny
    Buy one of their Intelligent Routing devices from them, then it's not so unique... I know you can get one for under $50k.
    Not really, for one that will route that amount of traffic you are looking at $250K. For 50K you can route about 100 Mbps.
    Mike @ Xiolink.com
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  21. #21
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    I'm slightly behind on bandwidth pop culture, could someone please explain how InterNAP is superior to say Level(3) (as a random example). I'm curious as to the technical, quantative aspects, not popular opinion.

    Thanks.

  22. #22
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    I purposely didn't add more for redundant switches and routers because I assumed both setups would need the same redundancy on your end. What good is an InterNAP link if it's plugged into a single router?

    Where are you guys getting that the quality wouldn't even be near that of InterNAP? If you asked me, it looks like the quality would be better than InterNAP. Please tell me where in the equation quality would be less than InterNAP. No, look at RouteScience, you can do a lot more than 100mbit/sec for $50k... Even right from InterNAP their $50k unit can do 500mbit/sec.

    The double counting was in that you said you would only be up $600 a month AND in an $80,000 hole.

    You don't need to hire a full-time network engineer for something like this, imho. Keep a consulting firm on retainer, pay them hourly when you need them. They're on call 24/7, cheaper and higher availability than a single engineer. Last time I checked good network engineers around here were going for about $125k a year, market may be different in other areas of the country, but right now I don't really care about other areas of the country.

    Also, Mfjp, last time I checked, in Equinix a cross connect is a cross connect, no need for the SONET, etc, etc.

    Note: I agree that if you are not in a carrier neatral data center InterNAP is likely a very good choice. If you don't want to go through the trouble of setting up your own network, which also has it's own benefits, InterNAP is a good choice. I see InterNAP as a good choice for smaller firms, etc., but I see no reason a good sized web host or ISP would spend the money on InterNAP. A good sized ISP or web host should already have it's own network engineer, I honestly feel that if you're pushing 1gbit/sec you should have a network engineer of some kind, so I honestly don't know why you're only adding that cost to half the equation. You guys are encouraging single homing with InterNAP, yet somehow say the stability and performance with 10 different providers would be worse? I just don't get that.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  23. #23
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    Wow, now I get an email from an InterNAP rep basically calling me an idiot for even considering the idea of using their FCP product instead of getting bandwidth from them. Last time I checked, the same company sold both those units. Well, I guess they just lost a customer for their FCP product. If they say I'm an idiot for even considering using it I see no reason to buy it. He claimed he was defending his company, I guess he forgot they also sold the intelligent routing devices...
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  24. #24
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    Karl, you make me laugh..... Just out of curiosity do you run your own BGP network?
    Mike @ Xiolink.com
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    Advanced Managed Microsoft Hosting
    "Your data... always within reach"

  25. #25
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    "What good is an InterNAP link if it's plugged into a single router?"

    I am not sure if this is truebut last time I called InterNAP the sales rep told me that each location has two seprate routers, and you are given an ethernet drop from each of the routers.

    Thanks, Kyle

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