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  1. #1

    Datashack Abusing Their Own AUP!!! Terminated 8 months old Server Without Any Notice!

    I'm very very old customer on dedicated business. Worked lots of companies and i never had real problems as i seen with datashack.

    Yesterday datashack.net have just cancelled my server. And told me that its terminated due to incoming ddos attack.
    Its ok to disable my server, cancel it. But who gave them rights to terminate it? I have read aup and tos when i signed up 8 months ago. And there was nothing releated ddos attacks, dos attacks, or something like that to terminate server. And still it has nothing.

    Read aup: https://www.datashack.net/aup/

    I'm not asking datashack for refund, keep it online,etc. I just want to access my harddrive thru ssh and get my latest files. So i will be just losting 24 hours.

    Datashack told me to wait datashack abuse team for monday 8am no sleep, no messaging them to bump,etc. I Have waited them and they answered me at 3:22pm: "We sorry but the service has been terminated for abuse."

    The abuse is that im getting ddos attacked. Its ok, they can cancel it but whats the point of immediately terminating server by datashack?

    I'm still kindly asking datashack to let me download my files from server. I'm ok to pay for setup fee if they need to setup it again on noc. So, please just let me download my files. There is nothing else im requesting from you.

    My history:
    I have had a minor attack two months ago at datashack dedicated. Datashack.net have null routed ip, next day i requested to route my ip and no attack has came. And after two months i had another attack and they have terminated without any notice!!! Getting ddosed is not something illegal im doing. They have no right to terminate without any warning. I'm still hoping that they will help me to get my files. Negative response from datashack will be a great loss for me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    North Kansas City, MO
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    2,694
    Since we handle the abuse for Datashack I'll answer you.

    A couple months ago you were the target of a 30+Gbit DDoS attack. We nulled your IP and informed you that the attack you attracted had affected multiple customers as well as our provider's networks and if it happened again we would need to terminate your services.

    At that time you assured us you had addressed the problem and that it would never happen again.

    Less than 60 days later you were again the target of two 30Gbit+ attacks.

    We have an agreement with our providers, whose networks you disrupt when you get attacked like this, that we will terminate anyone with an attack over 20Gbits.

    We gave you a second chance after the first attack and informed you about our policy concerning large DDoS attacks. There was a warning.
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by quake View Post
    They have no right to terminate without any warning.
    They have a right to protect their network and all of the other customers who use it.

    Hopefully they will work out a way to get you access to your data, if appropriate.

    I'm guessing there is more to this story.

  4. #4
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    Datashack Abusing Their Own AUP!!! Terminated 8 months old Server Without Any Notice!

    I'd say 30 gig a second is not 'minor' by any means, and if what they're saying here is true, well, you had warning as well.
    While you can't control incoming attacks, it's just not feasible for a provider to continue to sustain these. At some point the client has to go.

    Find a DC that specializes in DDOS protection, move on.
    Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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  5. #5
    Now I know the reason why my servers were loosing connectivity a lot for about 15 minutes

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Minnesota, USA
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    I agree with Aaron, those aren't "minor" attacks and if the attack(s) are affecting multiple customers, they have every right to terminate your service after it occurred a second time.
    David Byrne | Dedispec, LLC.
    Affordable Dedicated Servers | Storage & GPU Servers | Web Hosting | Colocation | West Virginia, Missouri & Texas
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    I'd say 30 gig a second is not 'minor' by any means, and if what they're saying here is true, well, you had warning as well.
    While you can't control incoming attacks, it's just not feasible for a provider to continue to sustain these. At some point the client has to go.

    Find a DC that specializes in DDOS protection, move on.
    I think what OP said is he want his data back not restore the service.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnwk View Post
    I think what OP said is he want his data back not restore the service.
    It is clear that is exactly what the OP wants - but hey- he was clearly warned. The moment he attracted the 2nd Large Attack it was no longer his data.

    Once again, regardless of the reason, if the data was important it would have been backed to a geographical diverse location on another network/provider.....
    CPanel Shared and Reseller Hosting, OpenVZ VPS Hosting. West Coast (LA) Servers and Nodes
    Running Linux since 1.0.8 Kernel!
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  9. #9
    Join Date
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    I don't see how you're saying they're violating the AUP. You may disagree with the AUP, but it clearly says:

    "If you engage in any of the activities prohibited by this AUP document DataShack, LC may suspend or terminate your account."

    "Prohibited Uses of DataShack, LC Systems and Services: ... Knowingly engage in any activities ... that will cause a denial-of-service (e.g., synchronized number sequence attacks) to any other user whether on the DataShack, LC network or on another provider's network."

  10. #10
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    So the customer intentionally engage in doing something that he knowingly would cause the DDOS attack?

  11. #11
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    I think before termination any of service, provider have to inform to customer and meanwhile provider can PAUSE the server.
    BD Web Services Since 2009
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  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    I don't see how you're saying they're violating the AUP. You may disagree with the AUP, but it clearly says:

    "If you engage in any of the activities prohibited by this AUP document DataShack, LC may suspend or terminate your account."

    "Prohibited Uses of DataShack, LC Systems and Services: ... Knowingly engage in any activities ... that will cause a denial-of-service (e.g., synchronized number sequence attacks) to any other user whether on the DataShack, LC network or on another provider's network."
    That's a bit of a stretch, that clause is the standard 'don't attack our network or any others'. And these days, hosting any mundane website can lead to an attack.

    It seems they need to add an extra clause or reword that last one to properly cover themselves.

  13. #13
    Never did understand why providers have the attitude of "Oh look, someone doesn't like you and is attacking you. It must be your fault your under attack, goodbye."

    Yet, attacks can and have happened before without the customer knowing why he was DDoSed or "attracting" it as you call it.

    It's not so long since people would DDoS a server to blackmail a company into paying a ransom. By the providers definition the customer did this on purpose and deliberately wanted to be blackmailed and is his own fault .

    I wonder if a provider would terminate their own servers if someone DDoSed them? .

    Anyhows.. I don't see why the provider in this case has an issue with the customer merely asking to get his data. His not asking for you to fully restore his server, his just asking for his data. This would not interrupt the network with a DDoS again so what is the issue?

  14. #14
    I don't think the providers look at it that way, they approach it from a rational view: the attacks your server gets cost us a lot of money and can damage the network's integrity; It's only normal they will cancel your services if they do not specialize in DDoS protection (I doubt there are a lot of DDOS mitigation providers who'd even like to mitigate 30gbit+ attacks)

  15. #15
    I understand the need to protect the network, and nullroute or suspend a server and that's fine. But it always seems they directly blame the customer and not the attacker for what happened.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    From a provider point of view:

    Ignorance is not an excuse, "I don't know it is illegal to host such website", "i don't know hosting such website will attract a ddos attack". It is the customer responsible to identify the risk, and select an appropriate infrastructure to host their system.

    If the customer have done the risk assessment in advance, none of this will happen. Especially when the customer have already experience once ddos attack.

    ddos attack is an targeted attack, it is not a random event, launching ddos attack cost money or resources, there is a reason behind those attack, if your website is being targeted by a ddos attack, you need to know why you are being targeted, how to mitigate it, and that's part of the cost of running your business.
    Alan Woo, alan [@] ne.com.sg
    = NewMedia Express Pte Ltd (AS38001)
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  17. #17

    Re: Datashack Abusing Their Own AUP!!! Terminated 8 months old Server Without Any Not

    While the statements by the provider does make sense when you see the larger picture, I personally feel it irrational to not provide any response time and simply terminate an account.
    No website owner would want to be ddosed. So the aup itself seems dodgy. Irrespective of that the provider could have simply suspended the account and refused to renew, after null routing.
    For me the provider is correct in asking the customer to move on, if it is adversely affecting their network. But the handling of the scenario has left much to be desired.
    Node24x7 - Hosting for masses
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  18. #18
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    India
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    While the provider is well within their right to terminate the account, which they deem unsuitable or counterproductive for their business, I feel allowing the OP to retrieve his data is the just thing to do. If those IPs are still receiving attack or there is a fear that they might receive attack and hence his access is not being granted, then they can easily allocate a single clean ip with only SSH access to the server and let the user migrate elsewhere.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by node24x7-Ashkin View Post
    While the statements by the provider does make sense when you see the larger picture, I personally feel it irrational to not provide any response time and simply terminate an account.
    No website owner would want to be ddosed. So the aup itself seems dodgy. Irrespective of that the provider could have simply suspended the account and refused to renew, after null routing.
    For me the provider is correct in asking the customer to move on, if it is adversely affecting their network. But the handling of the scenario has left much to be desired.
    Agreed.

    Some provider do provide FTP access to retrieve your data in the event of such termination happened, or charge a handling fee for data retrieval.
    Alan Woo, alan [@] ne.com.sg
    = NewMedia Express Pte Ltd (AS38001)
    = IP Transit, Colocation & Dedicated Servers in Singapore | Hong Kong | Tokyo | Seoul | Jakarta |
    = Singapore Speedtest speedtest.sg

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanwoo View Post
    From a provider point of view:

    Ignorance is not an excuse, "I don't know it is illegal to host such website", "i don't know hosting such website will attract a ddos attack". It is the customer responsible to identify the risk, and select an appropriate infrastructure to host their system.

    If the customer have done the risk assessment in advance, none of this will happen. Especially when the customer have already experience once ddos attack.

    ddos attack is an targeted attack, it is not a random event, launching ddos attack cost money or resources, there is a reason behind those attack, if your website is being targeted by a ddos attack, you need to know why you are being targeted, how to mitigate it, and that's part of the cost of running your business.
    You're jumping to conclusions, you think only illegal websites or certain types of website get attacked? Many, many legitimate sites and businesses of all types get attacked every day. As someone said previously, it can be blackmail, a competitor, maybe a forum banned a problem user that wants revenge, maybe just plain 'fun'. There are many reasons for an attack, a lot of which are hard or impossible to predict. And if you're not contacted by the attacker then the reason might be near impossible to find out. Especially if you're using the server for shared hosting.

    I agree however after the first attack he should of tried to take extra precautions, maybe he did? We don't know. And of course a provider should remove someone who is negatively affecting their network and other users, but he should at least be allowed to get his data back. Especially as the ToS/AUP is grey at best.

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanwoo View Post
    ddos attack is an targeted attack, it is not a random event, launching ddos attack cost money or resources, there is a reason behind those attack, if your website is being targeted by a ddos attack, you need to know why you are being targeted, how to mitigate it, and that's part of the cost of running your business.
    If it's not random, and "there is a reason behind those attacks", what activity then makes those attacked servers a target?

  22. #22
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    No one gets attacked at random, at least that I've seen. People claim they are random, but it can almost always be tracked to some game server, IRC use, the content of their site, the behavior of users on their site, etc.Sure, they may not know the action will result in a DDoS, but they knowingly took an action, and that action will have resulted in a DDoS, thus it is covered by the terms of service. To get TWO 30+ Gbit/sec attacks, it seems there must be something abnormal going on, as those size of attacks are extremely rare. I do agree it could be worded better, it seems to be worded specifically to cause confusion/allow for multiple readings.

    To note, I agree that just immediate termination might not make sense, but here they were warned, so you could debate it wasn't immediate termination. I doubt I would have handled it exactly the same way, just null route the IP and let the customer access the system over other IPs, etc. until the end of the billing term, or something along those lines.

  23. #23
    No one gets attacked at random, at least that I've seen
    Trust me, it is possible.

    For OP: I can guarantee you that datashack is willing to cooperate and help you out. I also received today an abuse email for an outgoing ddos because of a corrupted website and they were super fast with the support. I managed to get the server back online, investigate the issue and fix it.

    As long as you had received huge attacks before and you were warned, you can't really expect for them to tank such attack everytime you get ddosed.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by John0092Ojard View Post
    Trust me, it is possible.

    For OP: I can guarantee you that datashack is willing to cooperate and help you out. I also received today an abuse email for an outgoing ddos because of a corrupted website and they were super fast with the support. I managed to get the server back online, investigate the issue and fix it.

    As long as you had received huge attacks before and you were warned, you can't really expect for them to tank such attack everytime you get ddosed.
    Random attacks are possible, however an attack that is 20+ gbps is not random, its planned and takes a decent amount of resources/money to execute.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    At that time you assured us you had addressed the problem and that it would never happen again.
    Who is his right mind can assure anyone that he will never again get DDoS-ed? I mean, the DC doesn't want to get DDoSed, but also the owner of the server. Everyone loses with DDoS :/

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