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  1. #1

    Question noobie requesting more info on full rack co-location

    i'm from singapore and i plan on getting a deal with most popular co-location host QALA.

    details:

    Link:
    http://www.idc-services.com.sg/promotions.htm

    they're currently having a promotion till the end of the month for double bandwidth for premium subscriptions (2x2 = 4mbps)

    Extra Infos:

    Additional bandwidth:
    (1 – 4Mbps) @ $250 / Mbps
    (5 – 9Mbps) @ $ 200 /Mbps
    (10 – 19Mbps)@ $150/Mbps

    Managed Firewall at $125 per month (One time charge $250):

    QALA will be managing the firewall as to set the security policy, updating / changing of security policy up to 10times. 24 x 7 security monitoring & Response.

    For 1 full rack Co-location, the one time set up charges will be $250.

    it will be 16 IP address for a 1 Full rack space. Additional IP address will be charged at $3 per IP address.

    sorry if its a little messy, i quoted these responses directly from the sales representative.

    ok now moving on to my questions...

    1) what does 4mbps dedicated mean? does 4mbps for the entire rack mean that the actual speeds the servers get would be 4/n where n is the number of servers on the rack?
    2) 16 IPs - is that really enough for a 42U rack?
    3) switches and whatever hardware you need. how much space do they take up? what will be the costs of them. how do i assign ips per server with them? any recommendations? i've heard of layers? what do they mean?
    4) how many servers can my rack actually take? 42U = 20?
    5) is the managed firewall worth it?
    6) i still don't get the meaning of 4mbps dedicated and 100mbps shared. does this mean bursting to 100mbps will incur extra costs?
    7) is it possible to cap bandwidth for certain servers? is it recommended?

    finally, is this offer worth it?

    thanks again.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by webhost4all
    Additional bandwidth:
    (1 – 4Mbps) @ $250 / Mbps
    (5 – 9Mbps) @ $ 200 /Mbps
    (10 – 19Mbps)@ $150/Mbps
    $250/Mbps seems VERY steep to me, though that may be "cheap" in your part of the world. U.S. bandwidth is rarely more than $100/Mbps on the premium side for low commits.
    Managed Firewall at $125 per month (One time charge $250):
    A bit steep I suppose, but you'd probably pay around the same in the U.S.
    For 1 full rack Co-location, the one time set up charges will be $250.
    Again, seems high, but they're probably passing on a big chunk of the cost of putting up a cabinet/rack on to you.
    1) what does 4mbps dedicated mean? does 4mbps for the entire rack mean that the actual speeds the servers get would be 4/n where n is the number of servers on the rack?
    It just means the "dedicated" bandwidth is shared among all servers. If most servers only communicate with other servers (e.g., database servers) then this sharing hit would be minimal. On the other hand, if they're mostly out there doing Internet duties (web, email, app service, etc.), then yes you'll be diluting the bandwidth across the total number of servers.
    2) 16 IPs - is that really enough for a 42U rack?
    That's probably only a question you can answer. How many servers will need direct connectivity to the Internet? What are your growth projections in 12-24 months? You can generally only fit 20-30 servers in 42U, even at 1U, given power consumption and heat generation restraints (unless you have a custom cooled and powered cabinet, but that's rarely done in most colos).
    3) switches and whatever hardware you need. how much space do they take up? what will be the costs of them. how do i assign ips per server with them? any recommendations? i've heard of layers? what do they mean?
    Very few switches take up more than 1U unless you start going into the big chassis realm (Cisco 6xxx, 4xxx, Foundry BigIron, etc.). Cheapie unmanaged 16-24 port 10/100Mbps switches are on the order of $50. Quality manageable Cisco or Foundry 16-24 port gigabit switches will probably hit you in the range of $3000-$5000. You can probably find used or new manageable "low end" switches like Netgear and some DLink or Linksys models in the $600-$1000 range for 16-24 10/100/1000Mbps ports. If you want to be able to report on per-port bandwidth usage and charge your users accordingly you will need a manageable switch.
    4) how many servers can my rack actually take? 42U = 20?
    20-25 is probably a good range to work for the reasons mentioned above.
    5) is the managed firewall worth it?
    The monthly seems steep, but I doubt you'd pay considerably less here in the US. If this is truly a dedicated firewall just for your rack, the setup and monthly is not awful. If you don't feel you have the technical proficiency to manage say a $600 PIX or Netscreen, then $125/mo. is probably relatively cheap if you were to pay a consultant to manage the firewall.
    6) i still don't get the meaning of 4mbps dedicated and 100mbps shared. does this mean bursting to 100mbps will incur extra costs?
    I assume that they're actually dedicating 4Mbps of bandwidth to you with some kind of SLA involved; 100Mbps shared probably simply means that there could be 1,000 other servers sharing that 100Mbps.
    7) is it possible to cap bandwidth for certain servers? is it recommended?
    Cisco and Foundry and other vendors will do rate-limiting, but again you will pay to get the nicer feature sets. You can also do rate-limiting on the software/OS side (Apache mod_bandwidth, etc.). If you plan on having a rack of say dedicated servers you are renting to customers then you'd want to rate-limit on the switch.
    finally, is this offer worth it?
    You don't say what the actual physical space and power are costing you but $1000/mo. for 4Mbps bandwidth + $125/mo. for the firewall would be OK if they're folding the space and power costs into those figures. If you're getting soaked for another chunk for the space and power and perhaps going into the $1500/mo. range then the figures are pretty high. Given this is not the US though, it's impossible to compare. A full rack with 20 amps and 4Mbps dedicated bandwidth for $1100-$1500 might be very reasonable for Singapore whereas that would be on the high side here in the US.

  3. #3
    thanks for your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by serverminds
    $250/Mbps seems VERY steep to me, though that may be "cheap" in your part of the world. U.S. bandwidth is rarely more than $100/Mbps on the premium side for low commits.
    if you noticed, the connection is 4mbps meaning additional mbps would be charged in the 5 - 9 range. ~ $200/mth. this is in SGD. also, this price is for upgrade of speed meaning i will be getting a faster dedicated speed.

    A bit steep I suppose, but you'd probably pay around the same in the U.S.
    its in SGD again which converts to around $80 USD/mth.

    Again, seems high, but they're probably passing on a big chunk of the cost of putting up a cabinet/rack on to you.
    thats probably it.

    It just means the "dedicated" bandwidth is shared among all servers. If most servers only communicate with other servers (e.g., database servers) then this sharing hit would be minimal. On the other hand, if they're mostly out there doing Internet duties (web, email, app service, etc.), then yes you'll be diluting the bandwidth across the total number of servers.
    the rack would be used for the sole purpose of webhosting servers unfortunately. does that mean that i should get a faster connection?

    That's probably only a question you can answer. How many servers will need direct connectivity to the Internet? What are your growth projections in 12-24 months? You can generally only fit 20-30 servers in 42U, even at 1U, given power consumption and heat generation restraints (unless you have a custom cooled and powered cabinet, but that's rarely done in most colos).
    as i have high startup costs, i probably would want to fit it to the max. are you recommending 22 1Us?

    Very few switches take up more than 1U unless you start going into the big chassis realm (Cisco 6xxx, 4xxx, Foundry BigIron, etc.). Cheapie unmanaged 16-24 port 10/100Mbps switches are on the order of $50. Quality manageable Cisco or Foundry 16-24 port gigabit switches will probably hit you in the range of $3000-$5000. You can probably find used or new manageable "low end" switches like Netgear and some DLink or Linksys models in the $600-$1000 range for 16-24 10/100/1000Mbps ports. If you want to be able to report on per-port bandwidth usage and charge your users accordingly you will need a manageable switch.
    i believe the co-lo package comes with MTGR. do i still need one that reports per-port usage? what would be a good brand for a cheap, unbranded manageable switch then?

    20-25 is probably a good range to work for the reasons mentioned above.
    so 22 is fine?

    The monthly seems steep, but I doubt you'd pay considerably less here in the US. If this is truly a dedicated firewall just for your rack, the setup and monthly is not awful. If you don't feel you have the technical proficiency to manage say a $600 PIX or Netscreen, then $125/mo. is probably relatively cheap if you were to pay a consultant to manage the firewall.
    what does "manage the firewall" include?

    I assume that they're actually dedicating 4Mbps of bandwidth to you with some kind of SLA involved; 100Mbps shared probably simply means that there could be 1,000 other servers sharing that 100Mbps.
    i believe that the 100mbps is the entire shared pool.

    Cisco and Foundry and other vendors will do rate-limiting, but again you will pay to get the nicer feature sets. You can also do rate-limiting on the software/OS side (Apache mod_bandwidth, etc.). If you plan on having a rack of say dedicated servers you are renting to customers then you'd want to rate-limit on the switch.
    i believe QALA can do capping of bandwidth of the entire rack but is it neccessary?

    You don't say what the actual physical space and power are costing you but $1000/mo. for 4Mbps bandwidth + $125/mo. for the firewall would be OK if they're folding the space and power costs into those figures. If you're getting soaked for another chunk for the space and power and perhaps going into the $1500/mo. range then the figures are pretty high. Given this is not the US though, it's impossible to compare. A full rack with 20 amps and 4Mbps dedicated bandwidth for $1100-$1500 might be very reasonable for Singapore whereas that would be on the high side here in the US.
    i believe that power and space is factored into the $699

    by my calculations, the cost per month for 22 servers with 2 IPs each would be $699 + (44-16)*$3 + $125 = $908 SGD/mth.
    setup fee would be $250 (rack) + $250 (firewall) = $500 SGD not calculating the equipment costs.
    assuming the equipment costs $500 SGD,
    the total setup cost would be $1500 SGD and the monthly price $908.

    how would you recommend breaking off this cost price then?
    1) co-location?
    2) dedicated servers and what specs recommended?

    please take a look at the co-location/dedicated server forums of SGWHT for a overview of the current market rates. (http://www.sgwebhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65)
    if possible please state the prices that i should offer.

    thanks again.

  4. #4
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    Although the bandwidth can be had cheaper in certain locations in the world, it sounds reasonable. Even in the US, some providers will charge those prices for premium bandwidth.

    The price on the managed firewall sounds reasonable. Many providers would charge more.

    As far as the setup fee that serverminds was commenting on, I would consider $250 to be cheap. We often pay $1000 or more as a cabinet setup fee.
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  5. #5
    here would be the info on the "upgrades":
    http://www.qala.com.sg/additional_server_features.htm

    which of these are recommended?

  6. #6
    The clients who I've assisted in years prior iin that region have paid around the same amount. One thing I would advise is to get everything written out, especially the level of agreed upon management. Os reinstalls, reboots, screen readings, etc.,

  7. #7
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    $250SGD = $160USD - Which is certainly not expensive at all for the setup of a full rack - The racks we use cost £1500, so $160USD is a drop in the Ocean.

    $125SGD = $80USD - For a properly managed firewall, I'd say that was a good price.
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  8. #8
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    I would be interested to know the difference between their "Value Co-location" and their "Premium Co-location"
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by buba69
    I would be interested to know the difference between their "Value Co-location" and their "Premium Co-location"
    its just the speed

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