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  1. #1
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    ARIN Allocations

    Hi Everyone

    Recently I've begun looking into the world of acquiring my own IP space from ARIN. My company is a UK registered limited company and from what I've seen, ARIN will only give you space if you're a US registered company, is this true? If so, is there any other way to acquire space apart from leasing it from my datacentre?

    I look forward to any advice.

    Ryan
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  2. #2
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    Given that you appear to have a US based business (from your signature), you should have a US based business entity, be it a branch or a subsidiary, to ensure you are compliant with legal and tax requirements. This is irrespective of whether or not you are acquiring IP space of ARIN.

    Once you do have a US based entity, you wouldn't then have any issue with establishing a POC and ORG ID based in the ARIN region. Note that the IP addresses must be for use within the ARIN region.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    Given that you appear to have a US based business (from your signature), you should have a US based business entity, be it a branch or a subsidiary, to ensure you are compliant with legal and tax requirements. This is irrespective of whether or not you are acquiring IP space of ARIN.

    Once you do have a US based entity, you wouldn't then have any issue with establishing a POC and ORG ID based in the ARIN region. Note that the IP addresses must be for use within the ARIN region.
    I do not know the completely legals behind selling US services but not actually having a business entity in the US however I declare all income from all services including US ones to the UK tax authorities. I might have to lease IPs in the meantime until I am large enough to justify a legal business entity in the US. Any IPs I would be leasing/getting from ARIN would be solely for US colocation purposes either way.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanHost View Post
    I do not know the completely legals behind selling US services but not actually having a business entity in the US however I declare all income from all services including US ones to the UK tax authorities.
    Declaring income to the UK tax authorities doesn't fulfill any of your US requirements. I'm not sure what your business setup is like. If you are just reselling servers owned by another provider, you might not be deemed as having a business presence in Washington State, but I would check on that. If you do have colo there though, and it sounds like you do, you may likely already have what would be considered a business presence. In which case, you should be registered in Washington State and have a business license to operate. There is an excise tax in Washington State for 1.5% of gross revenue which you should also be paying.

    Either way, you should talk to a Washington based tax accountant and/or lawyer, to ensure you are not already operating illegally. Getting established in the US can be as little as a few hundred dollars initially, and a few hundred dollars a year to file for you. If you're not at a scale to afford that, you're likely not at a scale to afford ARIN fees which would annually be at least $500 (minimum allocation of /22 for multi-homed) or $1000 (minimum allocation of /20 for single-homed).
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    Declaring income to the UK tax authorities doesn't fulfill any of your US requirements. I'm not sure what your business setup is like. If you are just reselling servers owned by another provider, you might not be deemed as having a business presence in Washington State, but I would check on that. If you do have colo there though, you may likely have what would be considered a business presence. In which case, you should be registered in Washington State and have a business license to operate. There is an excise tax in Washington State for 1.5% of gross revenue which you may need to be paying.

    Either way, you should talk to a Washington based tax accountant and/or lawyer, to ensure you are not already operating illegally. Getting established in the US can be as little as a few hundred dollars initially, and a few hundred dollars a year to file for you. If you're not at a scale to afford that, you're likely not at a scale to afford ARIN fees which would annually be at least $500 (minimum allocation of /22 for multi-homed) or $1000 (minimum allocation of /20 for single-homed).
    I can definitely afford that. Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it.
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  6. #6
    Truthfully.

    When I submitted my ORG request, I just had to submit a point of contact. Also the only hard requirement they have is.

    " Please reply and verify that you will be using the requested number resources within the ARIN region and announcing all routing prefixes of the requested space from within the ARIN region. In accordance with section 2.2 of the NRPM, ARIN issues number resources only for use within its region. ARIN is therefore only able to provide for your in-region numbering needs. "

    The rest was justification paperwork on why I needed the ip addresses. Once they where happy it was pay the bill, here is your ips.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFoxLTD View Post
    Truthfully.

    When I submitted my ORG request, I just had to submit a point of contact. Also the only hard requirement they have is.

    " Please reply and verify that you will be using the requested number resources within the ARIN region and announcing all routing prefixes of the requested space from within the ARIN region. In accordance with section 2.2 of the NRPM, ARIN issues number resources only for use within its region. ARIN is therefore only able to provide for your in-region numbering needs. "

    The rest was justification paperwork on why I needed the ip addresses. Once they where happy it was pay the bill, here is your ips.
    I assume your business is a UK limited company? If so, did they not question your business' registered address as being outside the countries they manage?
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanHost View Post
    I assume your business is a UK limited company? If so, did they not question your business' registered address as being outside the countries they manage?
    No I own a LLC in PA. Just they did not do any real confirmation, last asking me for documents besides for looking at the company website.

    Quite sure if it is listed "Does services in USA" or another country listed in ARIN area, they would be ok with just that.
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  9. #9
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    Hhw, i understand that it would not cost much to actually establish a business entity in US as well as paying for taxes and all is normal, but it is not possible to register a company and maintain a bank account which is needed to actually support that entity being an outsider and not a resident.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB789 View Post
    Hhw, i understand that it would not cost much to actually establish a business entity in US as well as paying for taxes and all is normal, but it is not possible to register a company and maintain a bank account which is needed to actually support that entity being an outsider and not a resident.
    Yeah, you have a point there. I guess leasing IPs is my only choice.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB789 View Post
    Hhw, i understand that it would not cost much to actually establish a business entity in US as well as paying for taxes and all is normal, but it is not possible to register a company and maintain a bank account which is needed to actually support that entity being an outsider and not a resident.
    That is false. You can very much do those things as a foreigner.

    All you need to create a business entity is to have the necessary paperwork completed. Once you do, you will receive an EIN, which is also a federal tax ID. You'll generally need to provide your articles of incorporation and a certificate of good standing from your own country/state/province to register as a foreign corporation. With the EIN along with your articles of incorporation, you should be able open a business bank account, although generally you'll need to do this in person. If that's not an option, some US banks have branches in International locations. You may have a branch in your country, which you could go to in person.

    I am not a US citizen, nor is our original company a US business, so I speak from experience. and that is precisely how we established a business entity in the US. So I disagree that it is not possible. It may be a bit easier for a Canadian resident and Canadian corporation, but it shouldn't be difficult for most countries which have trade agreements with the US, the UK included.

    Either way, having difficulties setting up a US business entity or getting a US bank account is no excuse to not do so, or for breaking the laws of the US and/or the state where you operate a business.
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  12. #12
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    Why don't you rent it from RIPE? It wouldn't be much different, and then you can get it without a problem considering that you're a UK registered company.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    That is false. You can very much do those things as a foreigner.

    All you need to create a business entity is to have the necessary paperwork completed. Once you do, you will receive an EIN, which is also a federal tax ID. You'll generally need to provide your articles of incorporation and a certificate of good standing from your own country/state/province to register as a foreign corporation. With the EIN along with your articles of incorporation, you should be able open a business bank account, although generally you'll need to do this in person. If that's not an option, some US banks have branches in International locations. You may have a branch in your country, which you could go to in person.

    I am not a US citizen, nor is our original company a US business, so I speak from experience. and that is precisely how we established a business entity in the US. So I disagree that it is not possible. It may be a bit easier for a Canadian resident and Canadian corporation, but it shouldn't be difficult for most countries which have trade agreements with the US, the UK included.

    Either way, having difficulties setting up a US business entity or getting a US bank account is no excuse to not do so, or for breaking the laws of the US and/or the state where you operate a business.

    Its really not hard to establish a US entity.. 250 in filing fee's.. most states, EIN? great goto irs.gov and file it. Need and address? rent a UPS store PO box etc.

    Its really not hard to create a company.. it can be done in about 20 minutes or less with most states.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamProx View Post
    Why don't you rent it from RIPE? It wouldn't be much different, and then you can get it without a problem considering that you're a UK registered company.
    Then those IP space from RIPE should be used in RIPE region (for services in RIPE region, announced within RIPE region), not in ARIN region.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanHost View Post
    I assume your business is a UK limited company? If so, did they not question your business' registered address as being outside the countries they manage?
    When we registered with ARIN they did verify our company registration. You'll want to do the same -- it's not that difficult. ARIN IPv4 is in now in Phase 4 and all IPv4 allocation requests are reviewed and approved by teams. You'll face more scrutiny now than you would have several months ago.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Its really not hard to establish a US entity.. 250 in filing fee's.. most states, EIN? great goto irs.gov and file it. Need and address? rent a UPS store PO box etc.

    Its really not hard to create a company.. it can be done in about 20 minutes or less with most states.
    That part is not hard. Hard is to convince immigration of that being on a business/tourist visa. They apparently want you to be on an investor (substantially higher costs) or work visa for that if you want to enter the US (and you need to if you have to open a bank account).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    That part is not hard. Hard is to convince immigration of that being on a business/tourist visa. They apparently want you to be on an investor (substantially higher costs) or work visa for that if you want to enter the US (and you need to if you have to open a bank account).
    The larger US banks have branches in many other countries. You don't necessarily have to enter the US to open a bank account with a US bank.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    The larger US banks have branches in many other countries. You don't necessarily have to enter the US to open a bank account with a US bank.
    I could open a personal bank account being overseas, but they always refused me to open a business one remotely... Go figure.
    (Talking about HSBC)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cresci View Post
    I could open a personal bank account being overseas, but they always refused me to open a business one remotely... Go figure.
    (Talking about HSBC)
    That has to do primarily with fraud. They want you to walk in and meet in person in most cases. This holds especially true in Florida where you most likely tried to open the account.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferdelance View Post
    That has to do primarily with fraud. They want you to walk in and meet in person in most cases. This holds especially true in Florida where you most likely tried to open the account.
    HSBC International Banking Center is in Buffalo NY...
    At the FL branches I had no problem doing it, since I was already in Miami.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Its really not hard to establish a US entity.. 250 in filing fee's.. most states, EIN? great goto irs.gov and file it. Need and address? rent a UPS store PO box etc.

    Its really not hard to create a company.. it can be done in about 20 minutes or less with most states.
    Yes, takes about 10 minutes and $70 online here in Florida. EIN another couple minutes if the Federal site is working.
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  22. #22
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    ARIN only requires that space be registered for use in the ARIN region. You do not have to actually be located here. Similarly, Black Lotus is a U.S. company but is both an ARIN member and RIPE LIR.

    Even if you do choose to register a company in the ARIN region, understand this includes the U.S., Canada, and Caribbean region.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddosguru View Post
    ARIN only requires that space be registered for use in the ARIN region. You do not have to actually be located here. Similarly, Black Lotus is a U.S. company but is both an ARIN member and RIPE LIR.

    Even if you do choose to register a company in the ARIN region, understand this includes the U.S., Canada, and Caribbean region.
    I was told by ARIN that I needed to have a business entity located in an ARIN region or is this not actually true? I plan only to use the space within the ARIN regions.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanHost View Post
    I was told by ARIN that I needed to have a business entity located in an ARIN region or is this not actually true? I plan only to use the space within the ARIN regions.
    Same happened to me last year when trying to register my BR company there to get a US allocation for a US project.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanHost View Post
    I was told by ARIN that I needed to have a business entity located in an ARIN region or is this not actually true? I plan only to use the space within the ARIN regions.
    I do not believe there is any basis for this in ARIN policy. The rule is that the space be registered for use within the ARIN region, not that the ARIN member must be actually located in the ARIN region.

    With that said, the ARIN region is not just the U.S. You can decide to do business in the U.S., Canada, or Caribbean nations. Since you're a UK company (assuming the aforementioned issue remains a problem), why not consider registering in Bermuda, Anguilla, BVI, or Turks and Caicos?

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