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Thread: 14 year olds running companies.
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09-16-2002, 11:53 AM #101Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by 2host.com
You watch and believe _way_ too many movies. There are some 15 year olds that are capable and some good, but it would be incredibly rare that one would be any threat. Anyone can call the right person and do some social engineering and most of these kids run tools other people have made. It's a poor stereotype, speaking of those, to think that younger people are better with technology. A lot of us people over 20 and 25 (and much older than that for many) are those that were messing around in the mid to late 70's and early 80's having fun -- before things like this were frowned upon. A 15 year old computer wiz that can "hack" (do you mean "crack"?) would be a rarity.
Busted-Mohawk
Swedish police nab cannabis promoting hackers
Two young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and cannabis and broke into the U.S.
space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported.
After a year-long hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the two youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the
newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said on Wednesday. Police were quoted
as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed.
They said the older of the two youths was known to the authorities
after his involvement in a case of illegal data entries and computer fraud two years ago for which an older youth was sent to jail.0
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09-16-2002, 12:17 PM #102Web Hosting Master
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Greetings everyone:
There are many children (even younger than teenagers) whose learning skills put most adults to shame; and, who, technically, can run rings around those same adults.
However, knowledge is one thing and wisdom is another.
Wisdom comes with experience and takes time. A parent helping out can lend some wisdom, but only ask it relates to their own experiences in the subject matter.
Futhermore, unless the parent takes an active role in managing the business they may not have all of the information necessary to pass on some of their wisdom and experiences to the children running the show.
Please note that even in the most clean environments where maximum communication is being sought by both parties, there will always be things left unsaid that should have been stated, as well as things misunderstood but not known as being misunderstood.
Lastly, as it was mentioned to death -- children cannot sign legally binding contracts. And while there are legal entities such as corporations and the like that might be formed to allow such events, most contracts do require an officer of the entity to sign that is of age.
Thank you.0
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09-16-2002, 12:34 PM #103Junior Guru
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When I was 14 I droped out of school to start a hosting and programming business. I couldnt legally drop out I just stoped going working was ALOT more fun and I felt it was better for my future. I started using computers when I was 11 and by that time was an avid c++ programmer, and I felt I knew enough to do what I was(and I still feel at that point I knew more than most of the kids with hosting companys do now).
My original company did indeed fail:
WHY:
Becuase I was 14, and had no clue about business ethics, I had enough techinical skill to do everything I needed. But I wasnt up at 6 am to take business calls, or in any position to hire staff or make any necessary partnerships. I also didnt have any source of income to start the company on which obviously makes it difficult.
However, If I could go back I would still do the same becuase now I own a nationwide ISP, and if I didnt take that huge a step in my life I would probably be a student at MIT, and then get a job for a company like the one I now own only after X years of school.
This isnt telling any of you who may be 14 years old to dropout and try and endup like me, like I said my original company had failed, but it was the learning experience that benefited me.
-Dan0
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09-16-2002, 12:40 PM #104Junior Guru
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You watch and believe _way_ too many movies. There are some 15 year olds that are capable and some good, but it would be incredibly rare that one would be any threat. Anyone can call the right person and do some social engineering and most of these kids run tools other people have made. It's a poor stereotype, speaking of those, to think that younger people are better with technology. A lot of us people over 20 and 25 (and much older than that for many) are those that were messing around in the mid to late 70's and early 80's having fun -- before things like this were frowned upon. A 15 year old computer wiz that can "hack" (do you mean "crack"?) would be a rarity.
Criticism on skill by age is poor, You may spend all your time on a computer, but theres kids that spend all their time LEARNING about computers, telecomunications, etc...
The real hacker students dont spend their time running scripts and talking in message boards. They are ALWAYS learning, every free moment is devoted to gaining more information. If one of these people decieds to run a company, I dont care if hes 14, if he knows more about telecommunications and networking than this whole message board, I think he has a right to run a hosting company.0
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09-16-2002, 02:12 PM #105Web Hosting Master
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Here's my opinion:
The NORMAL 13-18 year old can not run a successful web hosting business. I think when this was discussed about 6 months ago, Alan of Splashost(Recently turned 19 I believe) said that the normal person of his age could not do what he has done. I agee.
Today we live in a society where we grow up and our parents and teachers tell us you can be whatever you want to be. Someone hears about a 14 year old making it big in web hosting and decides to try it himself. Its too easy to start up a hosting company! I mean rackshack's ad in hosttech says, "Start your own web hosting business today!" for only 99 bucks a month. Other companies use similar slogans for their resellers, and only charge 2 weeks of a 14 year old's allowance for them to get their own account. If they hit up some of their family friends and relatives, they can be paying for their account in almost no time. Their parents will probably start bragging about them, as well as their family and friends which makes the 14 year old feel successful already. The problem is this is an internet company, not a local lemonade stand. People all over the world will see your service and will be able to buy your services. Once you start to grow, and people are asking if you support Java Servlets, is SSH available, what are your bandwidth carriers, and these words are GREEK to the 14 year old. As the client base grows, its just too much for the kid to handle, for all the reasons stated like
School
Its the life of a 14 year old, he may want to go out with friends
Punished by parents for a 2am support call
Not enough education
Going to camp, on vacation, ect.
Now there are exceptions to the rule. I was 14 when I started my hosting business as a reseller in 99. I was able to succeed because:
I went in with 2 other 14/15 year olds who were very smart(1580s on the SAT) and had a good business sense. My father is in the computer industry, and a partner's father was a lawyer(which was invaluable to us). Although they went to school, I was sick most of the time and unable to attend public school, so I was homebound (Sorta like homeschooling but you teach yourself the subjects and take the tests provided by the public school system.) I was at home all day, and teaching myself about computers, business, and web hosting was much more fun than teaching myself Algebra 2. The hosting business is still alive and going strong, and I am proud of it. I'm proud of what I have accomplished, and the experience I have gained.
But 14 year olds getting into this, lend me your ears. If I could exchange all of this for the life of an average teenager..
I WOULDGet your certificate of knowification autographed by REW!
Visit rewdog.com for details.0
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09-16-2002, 02:12 PM #106Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by faculty
What about students who advanced quicker than others through school and finished his HSC by the age of 17? (Instead of 18)??
There are a few good business thinking students out there. Many schools (in Australia anyhow), have classes since the age of 14 learning business ethics and practices..
By the time they have finished school, early or late, they know quite a bit
I thought i knew it all at 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.... you get the drift (i'm now >30 <32 ), but guess what, even when i went to University and got some qualifications, i thought - well i must have learnt everything now - wrong. Even University is just about getting wide ranging experience in all aspects of grown up life and i find it so sad when young people choose to miss up such valuable life experience and go into work / go into business, let alone the nutters that drop out of school. Ok so many people do drop out and go on to be successful, but they really are the tiny minority.
Would i trust my hosting to a 14 year old. Absolutely no way on this earth - they just don't have the valuable experience, and wisdom.
The thing is though, because the barriers to entry are so low this industry is bound to be overrun by kids - i'd do it for sure (if i could be 14 again). And i probably wouldn't listen to anyone on here that was trying to tell me not to. Why 'cos you're 14 man and you are streetwise now and you know a lot!! LOL. It isn't just hosting that this is going to happen in, there are countless other industries that will face similar problems as technological advances (amongst many other factors) continually allow the barriers to entry to be lowered. So what is the way forward?
a) Allow it to continue?
b) Don't care because you don't compete at the bucket shop end of the market (that most 14 year olds compete in), anyway? (<--Mainly My Choice)
c) Raise the Barriers to Entry?
i. Make it against the law to be in business without a licence? (Pretty darn difficult to do)
ii. Make it illegal to sell rackspace / serverspace to a minor? (They'll only stick a server on the end of an aDSL pipe !!)
iii. Require written statements of the ages of Key company personnel on all Client facing material (when a minor)?
iv. Start an Trade Association that bars Minors from being members, thereby educating the buyers?
I am sure there are many, many more options.
One thing is for sure, i have noticed over the past few years that boards like this have started to become more like playgrounds than serious areas for serious discussion and debate. Perhaps RS, should start an Over18 board with proof of age required? Just a thought.
Just my 2 pence.••• Mark Castle •••
••• www.captivereality.com •••
••• domainlabs.uk •••
My views are my own and not those of my company.0
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09-16-2002, 02:24 PM #107Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by markcastle
Perhaps RS, should start an Over18 board with proof of age required? Just a thought.
Just my 2 pence.0
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09-16-2002, 02:46 PM #108Web Hosting Guru
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Not necessarily - I didn't mean get rid of this board (a big proportion of their target market) - but create an additional one. Anyhow like i said just a thought
••• Mark Castle •••
••• www.captivereality.com •••
••• domainlabs.uk •••
My views are my own and not those of my company.0
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09-16-2002, 04:20 PM #109Disabled
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I have to agree though.. while a 14 year old may have good business ethics and practices, when the going gets tough the child may loose maturity about himself and skidadle just like many hosts we have seen on this board
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09-16-2002, 05:17 PM #110Newbie
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Originally posted by ninji
This isnt telling any of you who may be 14 years old to dropout and try and endup like me, like I said my original company had failed, but it was the learning experience that benefited me.
[/B]
I guess maybe in the sense it could have, because maybe in the future they would be more careful in doing research about the hosting company they're signing up with.
That's one reason I won't sign up with a teen-age host, I would not want to be part of someone's learning experience.0
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09-16-2002, 05:32 PM #111Disabled
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Do you mean to say 30-40 year old males and females don't have learning experiances either?! Haha.. buddy.. everyone has learning experiances. BIG or small..
I think if a 14 year old has the mentality, business ethics, care for people, an idea and manners, then they should go ahead and do what they can.
However, I think the customer deserves the right to know how old the host is.0
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09-16-2002, 05:34 PM #112Disabled
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I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.
Go figure.0
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09-16-2002, 06:12 PM #113Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by faculty
I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.
Go figure.Get your certificate of knowification autographed by REW!
Visit rewdog.com for details.0
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09-16-2002, 07:33 PM #114Disabled
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lol I knew you were jealous of me rewdog hehe except im 16
0
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09-16-2002, 08:00 PM #115Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by Xandra
Wouldnt stereotyping begeneralising or making a conclusion out of incomplete facts.
You havent interviewed the world, have you.
You've just looked at members of this board... most of them biased adults like yourself. I call that generalising.
Nope, I don't. Just because I'm not willing to spend my time writing a 10 page essay trying to convince you doesn't make me your supporter.
I've expressed that from the first post I've made in this thread. Not all 45 year olds are as smart as they claim to be.
Pick up a dictionary and look up the words, "stereotype", "generalise" and "common generalisation".
I didn't say that but a response I typed out indicated that?
Do I see a paradox here?
Please... make up your mind and stop making your "generalisations" and faslse deductions.
That doesn't mean I said that wet water is "better" than frozen water, or that frozen water can't melt and be just as wet as any non frozen water. There's no reason for you to want to fight about this. Again, I've said nothing you should take issue with, it's a simple, innocent and sensible comment. You either read too much into it, or you're just trying to... well, who knows what you're trying to do or why, I don't want to falsely deduce why you're trying to fight with someone that didn't give you any reason to. Please go back and read what I said. I never said anything to give you a reason to be acting like this.
I think this is your third one in this thread so far.
If you can't stand to have your views challenged, keep them to yourself.
No, I don't see. All I can see is a guy who needs to be back in English class.
Yes, and I still stick to my earlier conclusion.
Neither do I, so quit your assumptions.
Don't create conflict for yourself and blame me for it. If I actually did do something to make you act this way, I'd apologize and make what I said more clear, but just fighting with me about some non issue leaves me nowhere to avoid this. I didn't intend to respond to you before, and I'm definitely not again. Go find someone else to fight with. It seems you don't need a reason, so it should be pretty easy to find someone else to bother. The irony of the topic of this alone is too much to carry on any reasonable debate, let alone to see you fight. I'm not interested.Robert McGregor
URL: http://www.2host.com
Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 08:04 PM #116Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by Johan H
Strange, ill quote this website now, and i know this for sure cause i live in Umea
Busted-Mohawk
Swedish police nab cannabis promoting hackers
Two young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and cannabis and broke into the U.S.
space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported.
After a year-long hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the two youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the
newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said on Wednesday. Police were quoted
as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed.
They said the older of the two youths was known to the authorities
after his involvement in a case of illegal data entries and computer fraud two years ago for which an older youth was sent to jail.Robert McGregor
URL: http://www.2host.com
Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 08:14 PM #117Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by ninji
No. Amoung the greatest known 10 hackers alive, one is telsa whom is long dead, 2 are under 16.
I dont get my information from hacker movies, I get my information from secuirty confrences, hpvca meetings, security magazines, and detailed message boards. The hacker i speak of is famed especially for his quote "My kung fu is better than yours". If you want that quote and hacker into google.
Criticism on skill by age is poor,
You may spend all your time on a computer, but theres kids that spend all their time LEARNING about computers, telecomunications, etc...
The real hacker students dont spend their time running scripts and talking in message boards.
They are ALWAYS learning, every free moment is devoted to gaining more information.
If one of these people decieds to run a company, I dont care if hes 14, if he knows more about telecommunications and networking than this whole message board, I think he has a right to run a hosting company.
There are exceptions to every case, indeed. But it's rare that a 15 year old hacker would know more than someone that's been doing it for twice as long as the 15 year old has been alive. I'm not talking about comparing a 15 year old to most adults, because we can compare an adult that knows very little about compares to most other adults and try and act like the guy that knows very little is a wizard with computers. The way you posted that comment previously, seemed a bit off to me. Maybe you didn't mean to have it come out how it did?
After all, that would be like saying that these skills kids now won't be able to learn more as they grow older and get more experience with more things. It's rare that someone with real skills is so young, not that it doesn't happen. My point was people that were so young before, 20 or 30 years ago, have been doing it for that much longer. These smart kids from back then, the one's that built the technology, etc. So, while there are exceptions to most rules, it's rare in this case.Robert McGregor
URL: http://www.2host.com
Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 08:20 PM #118Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by faculty
I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.
Go figure.Robert McGregor
URL: http://www.2host.com
Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 08:24 PM #119Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by faculty
Do you mean to say 30-40 year old males and females don't have learning experiances either?! Haha.. buddy.. everyone has learning experiances. BIG or small..
I think if a 14 year old has the mentality, business ethics, care for people, an idea and manners, then they should go ahead and do what they can.
However, I think the customer deserves the right to know how old the host is.
It all depends on what person you're comparing to what person in any of this debate as far as skills and much more goes. You make a good point that 30-40 year olds learn all the time too -- or they can, or should anyway. :-) My point was that assuming a 30-40 year old has been, that assuming that they have the comprehension for these type of things, that they have an advantage. It all comes down to the person and a lot of people have been doing this for a long time and are very good. Most adults in general aren't, true, but a lot are.Robert McGregor
URL: http://www.2host.com
Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 09:01 PM #120Junior Guru Wannabe
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Being 14 myself, I may be a bit biased here, but I'd like to make my opinion known.
Personally, I think that anyone who would limit the rights of all children exhibits severe ageism here...not to sound like some politically correct freak here...but saying that "no kids should be running a business or even thinking about it" is one of the most saddening things I believe I have ever heard (yes, a user here said that). The mere notion that someone as old as myself is incapable of comprehending business, is simply ridiculous. I am unsure as to how, without experience in such matters, a new adult is supposed to take the first step into that world? If anything, having experiences as a youth will be extremely beneficial, because it teaches you a lot of things that you would otherwise gain only through time.
First, running a business tests maturity. Maturity to follow the rules, to be willing to take responsibility for your actions, and to carry yourself as an adult. Maturity to make commitments, and to make good on them. The kids you see running web businesses are not bike-riding, bubblegum-chewing preteens that may come to mind; nay, they are the younger image of the businessmen and women of the future. They are suited for this business, and will find their adult ventures far easier having taken similar steps as a youth.
Second, running a business develops business skills and attitudes. Everyone who runs their own business, child or adult, wants to see it succeed in the best of ways. Thus, they will change as necessary to achieve that success. Meaning what? Meaning that they would discover what are proper techniques and attitudes to succeed. Meaning that they are just as capable as adults.
Another thing is develops is skills. Real, honest to god skills. Are the abilities of a fourteen year old irrelevant? Certainly not. You could look at a piece of artwork, a website, anything, and have no idea the age of its designer. How much easier it would be for everyone in this business had they learned at my ripe old age of 14. How much farther they could have come in that same amount of time, if they had begun down that road years earlier.
There are many other traits these prodigies have displayed, but we can all think of them ourselves.
I don't call these young endeavors a waste of time, a wrong, none of that. I call that labeling of these endeavors an unnecessary condemnation. It is not against the law to work at 14. Not for yourself, not for anyone else. Now, things like legally binding contracts, are definitely a problem that will get in their way, but should not completely stop such endeavors. A waste of time is watching television, riding your bike, or playing videogames. Selling services to the world, and making money...calling that a waste of time shocks me. What should I be doing? I do well in school. I do VERY well in school, and I spend a great deal of time studying, doing homework, and sitting in a desk. More time than any adult does. And I spend a lot of time working on my hobby, my interest, my business. They're one in the same, and it's a highly productive, educational, and worthwhile use of time, so long as it does not interfere with other priorities, like school. I call it a priority, because it is. If these young designers do not also see this, only then is there a problem.
I have spent a lot of time on my hobby, the occupation I wish to continue to hold for a long time. I have received a lot of support from my similarly-aged and older peers alike. Many of those friends were not even aware of my being a legal minor, let alone 14 years old. It's that that I stress. If you can't tell a 14 year old from a 25 year old...then wherein lies the problem?
I cannot express my appreciation for those adults who support my position. And I respect the reasoning that it takes away from studying, etc.
Maybe we don't have the wisdom of a thirty year old. And maybe we don't have the experience of one. Maybe we don't know what's right for ourselves. And maybe, by the time we're an adult, we will. How many 21 year olds do you know that started fresh into the business world and had such assets?
If experience and wisdom are valuable assets, what's wrong with getting a head start?
It's kind of a 'duh' thing that more 45 year olds are mature than 14 year olds...but it's an equally 'duh' response that the immature kids aren't running around making business deals.Last edited by Parms18; 09-16-2002 at 09:06 PM.
DigitalPlazma.com - Development Studio0
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09-16-2002, 09:06 PM #121Web Hosting Evangelist
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With that attitude and outlook, I support you.
Robert McGregor
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Email: robertm@(nospam)2host.com0
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09-16-2002, 09:10 PM #122WHT Addict
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Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience
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09-16-2002, 09:25 PM #123Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by LordLardo
Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience
There are plenty of ways you can learn and gain experience without diving into an empty pool and starting your own company without knowing what the heck you are doing. I've seen this in this business from people of all ages. They want to be web hosts, but know nothing about running servers and even less about dealing with people.
I don't doubt that there are some 14 year olds that are more than capable of running their own business. I do think that the ones that truly are capable are few and far between. Frankly, I think the same goes for adults.0
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09-16-2002, 09:29 PM #124Dennis Johnson
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I know I left this thread quite a few pages ago. But, I just had to stop back in for a minute.
Bear with me. This won't take long. I just have to do something real quick.
dbbrock1
Thanks. I feel better now.
There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.0
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09-16-2002, 09:46 PM #125Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by LordLardo
Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience••• Mark Castle •••
••• www.captivereality.com •••
••• domainlabs.uk •••
My views are my own and not those of my company.0