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  1. #26
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    PHP on the server side and Javascript on the browser side and MYSQL as the database. This combination works for any novice to average programmers, I am one of them
    PHP programmer, moving to become drupal programmer
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  2. #27
    For any type of programming, there is no "best language." Every single programmer should learn a set of programming languages that contribute to the type of applications they wish to create. For a web developer I recommend,

    1. HTML/CSS/XML (required if your going to learn PHP)
    2. PHP (dynamically generating web pages)
    3. Javascript/JSON/JQuery (sending, receiving, manipulating data)
    4. Python (for tasks that require more power e.g. Web Spiders)

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonDevise View Post
    I'm absolutely agree wit you . Php is the most popular development language . I'm creating websites too and I mostly use this language of programming .
    Then you both are absolutely wrong. Its the cheapest language to develop with, hence why its so popular in online forum communities and places where work is done cheaply.

    Enter the corporate world, and you are in a whole different atmosphere.
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  4. #29
    php and c# seem to come up quite a bit in programming terms, also xml seems to be mentioned quite a bit in web design and programming also, though its strictly not a programming language but a markup tool.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aleaxhdyre View Post
    php and c# seem to come up quite a bit in programming terms

    Both of them are definitely among the popular ones, they are in different leagues though.

    Quote Originally Posted by aleaxhdyre View Post
    also xml seems to be mentioned quite a bit in web design and programming also
    Well, its mostly used for configuration hell or when someone thought he needed a fancy data exchange model. Dont get me wrong, it can be a very useful tool (especially when a certain data hierarchy is required) but at the same time it is very hyped.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Then you both are absolutely wrong. Its the cheapest language to develop with, hence why its so popular in online forum communities and places where work is done cheaply.

    Enter the corporate world, and you are in a whole different atmosphere.
    Sorry but you are wrong (see what I did there?)

    There are three tiers of php programming.

    The lower tier involves procedural scripting. Fast, dirty, git er done approach. Works great for most web tasks.

    The second tier involves a smattering of object oriented programming combined with procedural programming, basicaly 70% of web applications.

    The higher tier consists of enterprise best practices, fully object oriented code backed by industry standard design patterns that is completely covered by unit tests for implementation and integration. Zend Framework 2 is approaching this but not quite there yet in my opinion.

    No one tier is better than the other. One language, multiple ways to get the job done. That is the strength of php and why it is so popular. Easy to get started for the newbie web programmer but has enterprise capabilities for the comp science graduates.

    Personally for a web project I would go with Python or Ruby before PHP.

    For desktop apps, C++ and QT, just personal preferences, which is why you are going to get multiple and varied responses. Specify a task and you will get more refined answers.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_Case View Post

    Personally for a web project I would go with Python or Ruby before PHP.

    For desktop apps, C++ and QT, just personal preferences, which is why you are going to get multiple and varied responses. Specify a task and you will get more refined answers.
    PHP is most used because it's easiest to learn. I personally don't like it and it has ugly syntax.
    But more and more people on business level are asking for .NET applications.

    Python is currently very doubtful choice for web development because Python 2.x and Python 3.x are not compatible, and because of that, any host who supports Python, has Python 2.x installed so developers don't need to update their files. And even if you do something in 2.x version, it's again just the matter of time when your host will be forced to update their Python version, because Python 2 isn't under development anymore.
    I personally hope Python 3 will become standard soon.

  8. #33
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    Python is currently very doubtful choice for web development because Python 2.x and Python 3.x are not compatible
    Doubtful? There are thousands of production sites running Python 2.x. Heck, Instagram is running Python 2.x on thousands of servers.

    2.x branch will not get new releases BUT will still be maintained / have fixes. That doesn't mean Python won't be a good language to develop webapps though. 3.x is still not the default in Linux distros; though Ubuntu will have it soon.

    Web frameworks will soon follow suit as this happens. For the meantime, Python 2.x is here to stay, for years to come.

    P.S. Django 1.5 beta just announced Python 3.x compatibility a week ago.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cygnusd View Post
    Doubtful? There are thousands of production sites running Python 2.x. Heck, Instagram is running Python 2.x on thousands of servers.

    2.x branch will not get new releases BUT will still be maintained / have fixes. That doesn't mean Python won't be a good language to develop webapps though. 3.x is still not the default in Linux distros; though Ubuntu will have it soon.

    Web frameworks will soon follow suit as this happens. For the meantime, Python 2.x is here to stay, for years to come.

    P.S. Django 1.5 beta just announced Python 3.x compatibility a week ago.
    Well I know there are thousands of sites running Python, Google is one of them, but I'm saying that incompatibility between Python 2 and Python 3 can be double edged sword, since you can't know when some host will switch on Python 3 and you'll have to update your Python 2 web apps. It's different story if you're doing web app for some1 with dedicated servers where they decide which version they will use and for how long. But in everyday use for smaller enterprises, I wouldn't go with Python because of that incompatibility.

    That's at least my opinion, I personally love Python and it's my favorite programming language, but there will be incompatibility issues for some time.
    I would also like to see Python 3 in Maya, as it's not in 2013, maybe in 2014.

  10. #35
    I use PHP and Perl for the most part.

  11. #36
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    633
    Among the languages typically used for web development (by that I don't mean C and C++), Java has consistently topped the TIOBE Index for years. If you're a medium sized or larger corporation that hasn't standardized on the Microsoft stack, odds are that you're primarily using Linux or Solaris + Oracle + Java for your critical business apps. You've got the largest enterprise companies (Oracle, IBM, etc.) pushing Java and their related products on enterprise customers. And Java is still by far the dominant language taught in 4 year collegiate programs offering degrees in computer science / software engineering. While it's not typically used by a scrappy web startup much, or people just coming to web programming, it's still used quite a bit for web applications, especially on the app/logic tier (where you may see another language platform for the presentation tier; this is what eBay does for example). I'd still argue that Java JVM is the most flexible platform out there. Familiar with Ruby or Python? You have jRuby and Jython, respectively. Want to rapidly prototype CRUD apps a la Ruby on Rails? Use something like Groovy, Grails, RIFE, etc. Want to jump on the statically typed functional programming bandwagon? You've got Scala, Clojure, etc. If anything, one of the most common complaints about Java is that it has too many options and flexibility (and frameworks), and hence gets confusing.

    A bit surprised that very few have mentioned former Web 2.0 darling Ruby. Now that Web 2.0 is apparently passe, my anecdotal take is that many of these trend programmers have moved on to mobile platforms such as Objective-C, which has seen an explosion in usage.

    And I've got to give some love to Javascript. Aside from the obvious client side applications, who would have guessed that after last seeing server side Javascript in 2000 with the Netscape Web Server/LiveWire platform that it would be making a come back for large scale web apps with Node.js in the last year or two?
    Last edited by lockbull; 11-01-2012 at 03:20 AM. Reason: Typo

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_Case View Post
    Sorry but you are wrong (see what I did there?)

    There are three tiers of php programming.

    The lower tier involves procedural scripting. Fast, dirty, git er done approach. Works great for most web tasks.

    The second tier involves a smattering of object oriented programming combined with procedural programming, basicaly 70% of web applications.

    The higher tier consists of enterprise best practices, fully object oriented code backed by industry standard design patterns that is completely covered by unit tests for implementation and integration. Zend Framework 2 is approaching this but not quite there yet in my opinion.

    No one tier is better than the other. One language, multiple ways to get the job done. That is the strength of php and why it is so popular. Easy to get started for the newbie web programmer but has enterprise capabilities for the comp science graduates.

    Personally for a web project I would go with Python or Ruby before PHP.

    For desktop apps, C++ and QT, just personal preferences, which is why you are going to get multiple and varied responses. Specify a task and you will get more refined answers.
    Out of the number of Fortune 1000 companies I've worked for (which has been quite a few), this is how many use PHP: 0.

    They say 67.36% of all statistics are made up.

    PHP may be a flexible and very agile language. It is easy to learn, and just because you're an expert in it, does not make it the most widely demanded language in the world. PHP is cheap and accessible. Small businesses or small projects use PHP.

    Anyone looking to get a serious application built would look elsewhere.

    And I've got to give some love to Javascript.
    +1
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Out of the number of Fortune 1000 companies I've worked for (which has been quite a few), this is how many use PHP: 0.
    You obviously havent worked for Facebook

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    PHP may be a flexible and very agile language. It is easy to learn, and just because you're an expert in it, does not make it the most widely demanded language in the world. PHP is cheap and accessible. Small businesses or small projects use PHP.

    Anyone looking to get a serious application built would look elsewhere.
    I am the last person advocating to use PHP for backend services (for the frontend it can serve quite well) and I generally agree with you statements, yet I would say if properly done it can be used for serious applications as well (again see Facebook).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    +1
    Complaining about PHP but loving Javascript is slightly contradictory.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoid View Post
    You obviously havent worked for Facebook


    I am the last person advocating to use PHP for backend services (for the frontend it can serve quite well) and I generally agree with you statements, yet I would say if properly done it can be used for serious applications as well (again see Facebook).
    No, I haven't. And you reinforce my point.

    Facebook started as a small project with a limited scope and no highly defined business plan. It was just some guys who had an idea (well namely 1 specific programmer.) If I were to be in that situation, I'd consider PHP too.

    Complaining about PHP but loving Javascript is slightly contradictory.
    Javascript provides a layer of functionality on top of any given web application layer, regardless of its core language. I wouldn't consider that contradictory, nor am I advocating that javascript is the most widely used language.

    To be honest, I'm not sure what that is. I'd argue certain languages are more popular based on the scope/requirements/resources available at a given interval.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    And you reinforce my point.
    Does this make you happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Facebook started as a small project with a limited scope and no highly defined business plan. It was just some guys who had an idea (well namely 1 specific programmer.) If I were to be in that situation, I'd consider PHP too.
    I would not choose PHP in that situation either. Especially not for the backend.

    My point is that PHP can be used for serious applications. However especially when it comes to the backend it is not the most suited language in most cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Javascript provides a layer of functionality on top of any given web application layer, regardless of its core language.
    Last edited by zoid; 11-01-2012 at 11:51 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoid View Post
    My point is that PHP can be used for serious applications. However especially when it comes to the backend it is not the most suited language in most cases.
    My point (in that quoted post) was that if your cheap, have plenty of free time, and had limited resources, PHP was (and still is) a viable option.

    That does not make it the best option.
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    ██ Mambug Studios
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    My point (in that quoted post) was that if your cheap, have plenty of free time, and had limited resources, PHP was (and still is) a viable option.

    That does not make it the best option.
    The best option is always highly dependent on the project or task. I can be PHP but does not have to be.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoid View Post
    The best option is always highly dependent on the project or task. I can be PHP but does not have to be.
    Could not agree more.
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  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Out of the number of Fortune 1000 companies I've worked for (which has been quite a few), this is how many use PHP: 0.
    they have high budgets , near unlimited time then can spend for develop , and peoples who know how to do "right" ....

    how many of these companies keep upgrade code from IBM 360 ?

    how many still use wild interfaces because it same as 30 years ago ?

    they count money another way .

    PHP like evil , it allow to do very bad code and very nice . And newbies start to use and yes , it work ... but some time later it can became code which is written very poor . 200 kb without procedures or functions , no OOP, mix code & html . imagine how it is .

    PHP is good language but need to write code well on it .

    to increase speed need use memcache , ngnix , so on . there can be done corporate sites like microsoft on php .
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mambug View Post
    Out of the number of Fortune 1000 companies I've worked for (which has been quite a few), this is how many use PHP: 0.

    They say 67.36% of all statistics are made up.

    PHP may be a flexible and very agile language. It is easy to learn, and just because you're an expert in it, does not make it the most widely demanded language in the world. PHP is cheap and accessible. Small businesses or small projects use PHP.

    Anyone looking to get a serious application built would look elsewhere.



    +1
    To be honest, I have personally been involved in large PHP applications for Bosch and BMW (by large I am referring to application size, development time and budget allocated). I do agree that most international companies go with other solutions most of the time (in my experience Java EE has quite a big %), but PHP is starting to slowly creep in. In the past 2 years I have seen a steady PHP increase in big companies (this is speaking from a recruiter point of view since I do not have access to the actual project details).

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by alyak View Post
    they have high budgets , near unlimited time then can spend for develop , and peoples who know how to do "right" ....

    how many of these companies keep upgrade code from IBM 360 ?

    how many still use wild interfaces because it same as 30 years ago ?

    they count money another way .

    PHP like evil , it allow to do very bad code and very nice . And newbies start to use and yes , it work ... but some time later it can became code which is written very poor . 200 kb without procedures or functions , no OOP, mix code & html . imagine how it is .

    PHP is good language but need to write code well on it .

    to increase speed need use memcache , ngnix , so on . there can be done corporate sites like microsoft on php .
    Actually, legacy is a big problem for big companies. They need to keep compatibility on and cannot switch easily. We still have projects in language versions that are from 2005 only due to compatibility. Small companies are much more prone to keeping up to date with programming languages and versions. Also, almost all of the big companies outsource their programming needs. They do not keep inhouse programming departments.

    Regarding bad coding, you can write bad code in everything. With most applications, the load of the programming language is very small compared to the load of the SQL server. That is where most fail and fail badly! And there is where it hurts the most

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCata View Post
    To be honest, I have personally been involved in large PHP applications for Bosch and BMW (by large I am referring to application size, development time and budget allocated). I do agree that most international companies go with other solutions most of the time (in my experience Java EE has quite a big %), but PHP is starting to slowly creep in. In the past 2 years I have seen a steady PHP increase in big companies (this is speaking from a recruiter point of view since I do not have access to the actual project details).
    To be fair, I'd like to clarify my original point, which was that I don't believe PHP is the most widely used language. I'm not saying large entities don't use it, just that it isn't as popular as many would be lead to believe based on the observations of a small-business starter community that relies on PHP scripts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCata View Post
    Regarding bad coding, you can write bad code in everything. With most applications, the load of the programming language is very small compared to the load of the SQL server. That is where most fail and fail badly! And there is where it hurts the most
    There's been this long struggle between database administrators and application programmers. You can't use application logic when working with a database (or database logic when developing applications.) Many programmers fail to recognize the differences and the impacts they have, until its too late, or many just avoid using a particular database technology because they don't understand it altogether.
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