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06-23-2004, 05:36 PM #1An Awesome Dude
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06-23-2004, 05:53 PM #2Junior Guru
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Wow that is an offense to our civil liberties.
We have the right to free speech, to say whatever we want, but when we WANT to shut up, we can't? Good grief....TWAStudios.com .:. Corporate HQ
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06-23-2004, 06:08 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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What does the right to remain silent have to do with you showing identifcation to a law enforcement officer?
With the amount of terrorism we have in the U.S., the amount of crime, kidnapping, murder, rape and so on, I think that if a police officer asks for your name or some ID, you must produce it.
Is this a free country? Of course. But that doesn't entitle a person to refuse to show proper identification to a law enforcement officer.
Another issue I have is The Dude, how many times has a Police officer wondered up to you and asked you for ID out of the clear blue? Probably a very small % of time.
This isn't going to hurt anyone geez.. we have bigger issues to worry about.
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06-23-2004, 06:20 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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Agreed... What have you got to hide? The only people who could understandably object to this are fugitives and criminals. Yeah yeah, it's your "right", but who really cares anyway? Is this going to affect your every day lives? If you don't like the way your country is being managed, you could always come up to Canada
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06-23-2004, 06:23 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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God forbid we have laws.
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06-23-2004, 06:29 PM #6Disabled
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wow that better not happen to me
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06-23-2004, 06:31 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Rob83
What does the right to remain silent have to do with you showing identifcation to a law enforcement officer?
With the amount of terrorism we have in the U.S., the amount of crime, kidnapping, murder, rape and so on, I think that if a police officer asks for your name or some ID, you must produce it.
Is this a free country? Of course. But that doesn't entitle a person to refuse to show proper identification to a law enforcement officer.
"In upholding... the mandatory identity-disclosure law, the majority justices also said the law only requires that a suspect disclose his or her name, rather than requiring production of a driver's license or other document."
That's why the comments included that it "opens the door" to requiring a national identity card or "widespread identity operations" or any other thing that might be abusive are a great exaggeration. This law requires only that if you're a suspect you must reveal your name.Specializing in SEO and PPC management.
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06-23-2004, 06:35 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by Revelations 13:16-17
Already, some major corporations are working on chips that can be inserted beneath the skin to act as identifiers. They are currently testing them on Pigs, but their end goal is to use them in Humans. They work similar to RFID tags, and they are already starting to use them in certain cities with convicted criminals who are out on parole.
For some reason, I feel that I will live to see the 2nd coming of Christ, especially at the rate of which legislation and global events are starting to take form, and fulfill prophecies in Revelations.
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06-23-2004, 08:14 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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thats it..... im moving
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06-23-2004, 08:36 PM #10Junior Guru
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I'm actually up in Canada right now.
OH CANADA, MY SOONTOBE HOME AND NATIVE LAND!
hahah
j/k I love America even if I have to give someone my name. It's the Patriot II act we have to fear.TWAStudios.com .:. Corporate HQ
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06-23-2004, 08:54 PM #11
LOL
The comments to this are pretty damn hillarious. Think about it for a second.
WHY would you refuse to give your name to the police? Because you have something to HIDE!
As far as "you have the right to remain silent", you do NOT have that right until you've officially been arrested. At that point they must read you your rights and you can (literally) shut up and not say a word.
Think about it a second though. If you just shut up, what are they going to think? Oh, he's guilty as hell, which you probably are. If you ACT like a guilty individual, guess what? They'll take you in for whatever they can find (even if they have to plant it on you )
Look at it this way:
You know (or think you know) your child did something wrong. When you ask them about it, and they clam up, what does that usually tell you? Either:
A> they know who did it and won' t tell
B> they know something else about it
C> they did it themselves!Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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06-23-2004, 08:57 PM #12Junior Guru
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LOL that is so true wolf.
GUILTY.TWAStudios.com .:. Corporate HQ
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06-23-2004, 09:33 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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I can see this a method for racism, and other bigotry...
Sad
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06-23-2004, 09:36 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Live with it folks. In this world, such legislation is needed to keep others safe. Respect police officers for what they do and don't make their lives difficult -- because they make yours easy.
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06-23-2004, 09:39 PM #15An Awesome Dude
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I dunno............
The Dude
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06-23-2004, 09:53 PM #16Web Hosting Evangelist
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Why does it really matter if you have to give them your name or not, if you are doing something illegal they will get your name anyway.
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06-23-2004, 10:48 PM #17Temporarily Suspended
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Love it or leave it. BTW, it's America not amerika.
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06-24-2004, 12:26 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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Well to me depends where you live. Each city, each state, each country will have it's good cops and bad cops. Some might abuse their power (which I have seen before and have happen to me one time).
Most cops (at lease where I live) wont stop you over, but their is some new cops that come from other states that seems to like to push their way around. Cops can now arrest people if they think you are doing something wrong or you match a profile.
Though a little story of what happen to me. Last summer I was walking around the park it was 9:00 pm when me and a friend got their. I guess me and her spent more time at the park then we thought (10:00 pm the park closes and the cop said it was 10:30 pm if I remember right). The cop comes up to us and told us why we are in the park after it is closed. I told him that we got here at 9:00 pm and that we didn't know the time. We told him sorry and the cop said we could go.
We walked up to the hill where my car is parked (over looks the park and a restaurant is right on top of the hill). Then 2 cop cars pull in with lights flying and the cops go out of the car saying (cant remember but basically dont move and have your hands out of your pockets).
Now this cop was plain out jack ***. He asked us a question and just basically was not listening to us. He keeped asking where you dealing drugs why you out so late, and so on. So my female friend moves her hand (the light was shining on us (the big light on the car) and so she could get a good look at the cop) Then the cop grab her hand and through it down and said dont move your hand.
I told the cop the light is in are eyes, but no he thought we were on drugs and dealing them. They put us in the back of the car, and we where both in this little white room (well more like a cream color) for about 1 hour. So I got fed up and said if you have anything else to say talk to my lawyer.
Well they let us go. Since then I do not and will not like that officer. I still remember his name till this day. Now not all the cops where I live are bad (very nice when you think about it.) Seems only the cops that lived out of state are the ones who seem more mean, and well jack asses.
To this day if I know I didn't do anything wrong (which I don't for the most part ) and a cop trys to mis use his power he will be sorry to do so. I do not allow people who mis use their power, and get away with it.
Also about the cop's asking for names seems only time they ask me for my name now is at night when I am out. I do not mind telling them it (since they can find out anyways). The only time I do mind is when the cop gets in my face and says "I will need your name, address, phone number, ID" Then will say "Incase if something happens around here we will know who to contact".
That is what gets me mad. Sorry about the little rant, but sometimes you just can not let people mis use their power, and get away with it.I am back....
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06-24-2004, 12:32 AM #19Web Hosting Master
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Also I know my rights and I will not let anyone take them away from me. Though it seems the government is trying to take the rights of the people away, and I for one will not respect the wishes of the government.
The government has no right to say we have to give up our rights. I was born with the bill of rights, and I will die with the bill of rights. I will not give them up for some government who says other wise.I am back....
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06-24-2004, 12:49 AM #20Aspiring Evangelist
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Its not love it or leave it.
If you dont like it, you can try to change it. No one really has to leave.
I also dont like the direction the country is travelling in. Taking away rights is never good. I think it was benjamin franklin that said:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
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06-24-2004, 01:09 AM #21Web Hosting Evangelist
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wow, these things really confuse me. on the one hand, you wanna be able to ASK the office what's up. I mean, for most folks, the only time you see a cop is when he pulled you over in your car and you would think you could say ...why did you waste taxpayer dollars pulling me over when I'm doing the speed limit and stopping etc...see, my seatbelt is on just so we don't have to have this conversation.
but on the other hand, look at the cop. he's got a job to do. find a burglar, catch a beater, whatever, and YOU are paying for that guy to get to the bottom of it a.s.a.p. because it's your dime on his time...so it boils down to how effecient you want society to run and how many 'rights' you'll give away to save money...sort of like free night-time and weekends and cell phones.
but what really confuses me is what I am supposed to say when they ask; do I give them the name my adopted mom gave me or my real name, my legal birth name, Baby Boy McKenna, twice arrested on machine gun charges...heh heh...Each One Teach One~eduhosting.org
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06-24-2004, 01:45 AM #22Aspiring Evangelist
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The problem is, no probable cause is necessary in this case. I could accept it if prob. cause was a requirement, but it isnt, which makes the whole idea questionable. Why SHOULD I tell the cop my name if he has no reason to need to know it?
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06-24-2004, 01:56 AM #23Junior Guru
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Hopefully George W. Bush will not be in office next year and things might just get back to where they need to be.
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06-24-2004, 02:00 AM #24Originally posted by cord
Why SHOULD I tell the cop my name if he has no reason to need to know it?
Better yet, why should you ACT guilty unless you are?
Yes, by refusing to cooperate with the individuals that have been designated authority figures, you are acting guilty, and giving them reason to suspect something.
What freedom is being taken away here? none.
Honestly, by refusing to give your name, you are, indeed acting like the child who has something to hide, and just doesn't want to give the information out.
Who are you to question whether or not those in authority if they have a reason to know anything? Their job is to protect all, even individuals like yourself that make their job almost impossible to do.
If they ask your name, its usually because they have a damn good reason to do so. Either you witnessed something or you're a suspect in something. If you continue to act suspiciously, then, yes, you will be looked on more and more as a suspect. Obstructing their job is doing just that, to them, acting suspiciously.Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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06-24-2004, 02:04 AM #25Registered User
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And I live in New Zealand. At least Americans have a constitution.