Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Hosting Software and Control Panels : Ensim WEBppliance is entirely GPL!

[nickp]

Hello,

I am a web hoster. I am currently using Ensim's control panel product. After several request to get the source code to key components of thier software application I decided to review thier licensing status.

They main issue that they have is that they link thier program with GPL code. Here is a snipplet from the GNU gpl-faq

Question: You have a GPL'ed program that I'd like to link with my code to build a proprietary program. Does the fact that I link with your program mean I have to GPL my program?

Answer: Yes.

Click here for the GPL-FAQ or GPL License for the license itself.

The following programs are GPL in Ensim's Webppliance: Proftpd, MySQL, phpMyAdmin just to name a few.

In v 2.x of thier product they linked it with Linux Red Hat 6.2, another GPL program. Making the current version a dirivitive of that license, also GPL.

I tried to work something out with Ensim to allow them to mend their ways without hurting their company or thier industry but they refused. Yesterday I lodged a formal license violation compalint with GNU. It should not be long before the web hosting community has a very strong open sourced GPL control panel option.

Nick Powers

[WildWayz]

Personally I feel this is BS - they are providing front-end support for their systems and allowing u to control your account through it.

Does this means that you expect Cpanel and Plesk to also become free, cos that ain't gonna happen.

What probably happened is you got a server and you want a control panel, but rather than spend money on one, you try to get one for free. That's how it seems to me.

Could be wrong.

James

[davidn]

Nick, you're confusing "linking" with "including".

Web terminology aside, when software (and the GPL) refer to linking, it's the process of two or more components of compiled code being connected to act as one big peice of code. This process can happen at compile-time(static linking) or run-time(dynamic linking, think .DLL or .so).

Now, I've never used Ensim, but I'm pretty certain they're just including some GPL applications alongside their own product.
There's no GPL violation in doing that.

You'll only have a case if one of their programs is either statically linked or dynamically linked to GPL code (a GPL library or something), or statically linked to an LGPL library.

PS: RedHat isn't a "GPL program", it's an OS distribution based on the linux kernel, with a collection of software, all under a wide variety of licenses.

[nickp]

What happened is that I purchased a product that I thought was copy written but found out that it was bundled with GPL programs.

ANY PROGRAM bundled with GPL programs is by default GPL. I am not saying that it is fair for Ensim to have their program taken away from them... but it is surely not fair for them to violate the GPL.

The issue here is did they violate the GPL? It seems crystal clear that they have. The bundled their product with GPL which is a violation of the GPL if they do not distribute the entire program as GPL.

The license is not vague. It does not protect the right to make commercial software it protects the right of the software not to be copy written. They screwed up when the packaged these items together. Ensim is one file and includes several GPL packages.. Nobody that truly looks at the licensing issues can deny that. How you may personally feel about the results is irrelevant.

Nick Powers

[nickp]

Here is a sniplet from the GPL license

"These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. "

1. Ensim cannot be reasonably considered independent and separate work because if you removed all the GPL code it would not function, for example in thier v 2.x product they bundled it with Linux (GPL) so their is no way it could run without it! And since every version since 2.0 is a dirivite of 2.0 then it is ALL GPL.

2. It is obviously based on the programs. It is the conduit, glue if you will, between these GPL programs. So, the llicensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.

Have you read the GPL?

Nick Powers

[Drewcifer]

He's right, actually. I hadn't really thought about it.

[mlovick]

Is it not so that they are providing the software that they have written and charging for that - and to make life convenient they are distributing their code with GPL'd software. Their code only controls the GPL software, it does not modify the source code of the GPL'd stuff.

Or correct me if I am wrong.

Ensim to become free - if wishes were horses!

[mlovick]

BTW - I think Ensim is a great product, if it did get distributed under GPL I would certainly contribute!

[nickp]

Actually you don't have to change the GPL portions of the program. It just has to be bundled with GPL programs, especially if the program cannot be considered as an independent and separate program then it makes the entire program GPL, and since this program will not run without the GPL programs (they bundled it with Linux!) then it is obvious that their entire distribution is GPL.

That is why people use BSD for appliances instead of Linux because the BSD license is commercial friendly and GPL is not. For example, the Nokia IP Firewall is bundled with IPSO OS, a derivative of BSD, and Check Point Firewall-1. If they had used Linux instead of BSD it would have forced Check Point Firewall-1 into GPL. Apparently Check Point did their homework and Ensim did not.

If they would have started out by making all the GPL programs a prerequisite rather than bundling it with their product they could keep their program proprietary.

Actually they had not broken the GPL until they refused my request for the complete source code. But, alas, now they have.

Nick Powers

[mlovick]

Hmmm.. This is interesting. I cannot comment any further as I am not an expert on GPL or Law. But it is interesting. However - I cant see the boys at Ensim releasing their source code just like that. I know I wouldnt, not after spending so much time on it.

Just think of the man hours - staff costs, advertising (even on this board). They will not roll over I am sure of it.

[nickp]

That is true. From their initial response I am sure they will try and fight it. It is not up to me to file a case. The GNU would have to do that. What I am trying to do is to open a discussion with the public, since the public is injured party here.

Nick Powers

[mlovick]

What I am trying to do is to open a discussion with the public, since the public is injured party here.

OK that is an interesting statement. I personally am a customer of Ensim, however I dont believe I am injured or to put it another way - out of pocket.

Actually - I think most people would gladly spend $200 on a capable CP. Moving aside the technicality of distributing it with GPL'd software, their code is still proprietry.

Now if I was in their position I would certainly think about their distribution methods if what you say is true. However, if it did not come bundled with the GPL's stuff then another option for them would be to distribute their code for the $200 and then have a larger installation instructional document.

Either way. I still think $200 is great value and I would not fell injured by paying it, even if it comes with the GPL's stuff.

I am affraid I am on Ensim's side here.

[ckpeter]

The public is not injuried, but the spirit of open source/GPL and the copyright of the authors of those GPL components are violated.

Plesk and Cpanel won't be affect by GPL, because they only include/control them. But ensim releases customized version (the ensim rpms) of GPL, so this may be interesting.

Peter

[iseletsk]

Originally posted by nickp
Hello,


Question: You have a GPL'ed program that I'd like to link with my code to build a proprietary program. Does the fact that I link with your program mean I have to GPL my program?

Answer: Yes.

Click here for the GPL-FAQ or GPL License for the license itself.

The following programs are GPL in Ensim's Webppliance: Proftpd, MySQL, phpMyAdmin just to name a few.

In v 2.x of thier product they linked it with Linux Red Hat 6.2, another GPL program. Making the current version a dirivitive of that license, also GPL.

Nick Powers

First off all I want to point out that under GPL,
if you link against GPL code or combining with GPL code - you program becomse GPL code.
Second, combining the code is fairly flexible, based on GPL FAQ:
"If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are definitely combined in one program. If modules are designed to run linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means combining them into one program.

By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program. "

So if program A (proprietrary) executes program B (GPL), it doesn't mean that program A becomes GPL. So, this should remove any concerns regarding proFTPd, MySQL...

On the other hand if program A (prop) links with program B (GPL) - then we have an issue. Yet, if you check licenses for most of the RedHat/Linux staff, including glibc, and I believe ALL libraries that distributed with RH, they are not GPL, they are LGPL, which basically permits linking it. It was devised specifically to allow commercial programs to run on GPL systems.

So basically, there is a very slim chance that Ensim violated any license at all. And if they did, then Apache probably did it as well (they are linked agains RH), as well as all other software that runs on linux.

[ckpeter]

I don't think the main control panel code of ensim would be subjected to GPL, because it is not "linked". However, Ensim is probably under obligation to release the source of all their "customized rpm packages."

Peter