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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    can anyone tell me what is wrong with Cisco SG300-52? Everyone seems to be ignoring that recommendation
    I use Cisco SG300 for client office setups and my own test lab. The web interface kinda sucks but best bang for the buck from what I use it for.

  2. #27
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    Just wanted to note about being careful when you're going to do a bunch of bonding/port channels as a lot of the Cisco gear is limited to 8 per device, I think that stands even in a stack in many cases.

    My recommendation would have been a pair of Juniper EX3300's or EX4200's (depending on features needed) and putting them in a virtual chassis configuration. That way you don't need to deal with spanning tree issues as they act as one switch, but can still get redundancy, putting devices off each switch or bonded to both of them.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Just wanted to note about being careful when you're going to do a bunch of bonding/port channels as a lot of the Cisco gear is limited to 8 per device, I think that stands even in a stack in many cases.

    My recommendation would have been a pair of Juniper EX3300's or EX4200's (depending on features needed) and putting them in a virtual chassis configuration. That way you don't need to deal with spanning tree issues as they act as one switch, but can still get redundancy, putting devices off each switch or bonded to both of them.
    There is nothing wrong with the Juniper switches you listed but a quick a check of eBay shows them used as starting $2,000 and $1,550 respectively for the 48 port version, which is 2-3 times the price of the 4948. You would normally expect something more expensive to be worth something for the extra price. Plus at those prices you could pickup a used Cisco 3560X which is current state-of-the-art for Cisco gigabit switches.

    Just to clarify the capabilities of the 4948, you can have up to 50 ether-channel groups each with a maximum of 8 ports per group, which even by modern standards is pretty decent and unlikely to ever be exceeded.

    I'm not saying the 4948 is all wonderful. After all it is a 10 year old design, but for $600-$800 it is an amazing value for what it does. It's L2 capabilities are still impressive today and its really only the L3 features that show obvious limitations, such as weak IPv6 and multicast routing support. At some point if you need those capabilities the switch still works great with the addition of a more modern routing solution.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by progent View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the Juniper switches you listed but a quick a check of eBay shows them used as starting $2,000 and $1,550 respectively for the 48 port version, which is 2-3 times the price of the 4948. You would normally expect something more expensive to be worth something for the extra price. Plus at those prices you could pickup a used Cisco 3560X which is current state-of-the-art for Cisco gigabit switches.
    First, not sure why you'd pick-up a 3560X over those Juniper options, I'd take either of those Junipers over the 3560X any day.

    Also, yes, buying a device that is effectively EOL (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...51-702107.html) will be much cheaper, as people dump them to upgrade to something that is actually being supported. My priorities are for something that will work effectively long term, not the cheapest. IMHO, the Juniper will last you more than twice as long with a much more complete feature set, so should easily be worth twice the price.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    First, not sure why you'd pick-up a 3560X over those Juniper options, I'd take either of those Junipers over the 3560X any day.

    Also, yes, buying a device that is effectively EOL (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...51-702107.html) will be much cheaper, as people dump them to upgrade to something that is actually being supported. My priorities are for something that will work effectively long term, not the cheapest. IMHO, the Juniper will last you more than twice as long with a much more complete feature set, so should easily be worth twice the price.
    To me picking Juniper vs. Cisco is like choosing a religion. Each has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, and their ideas on what is "right" but in the end they both will usually get the job done just fine. Mostly a lot of the choice has to do with your experience and what you are comfortable working with. I know Cisco pretty well so I can be make recommendations based on own experience. There are rabid Juniper fans as well as Cisco, but usually those folks can't be very impartial. As IT consultants we are agnostic and both Juniper and Cisco make some great gear. Juniper has been a great competitor to Cisco, which has been wonderful to network equipment buyers. One this I can say is that with a much larger market share it is easier to find Cisco expertise than Juniper and boy are those Cisco CCIE's smart folks.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by progent View Post
    To me picking Juniper vs. Cisco is like choosing a religion. Each has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, and their ideas on what is "right" but in the end they both will usually get the job done just fine. Mostly a lot of the choice has to do with your experience and what you are comfortable working with. I know Cisco pretty well so I can be make recommendations based on own experience. There are rabid Juniper fans as well as Cisco, but usually those folks can't be very impartial. As IT consultants we are agnostic and both Juniper and Cisco make some great gear. Juniper has been a great competitor to Cisco, which has been wonderful to network equipment buyers. One this I can say is that with a much larger market share it is easier to find Cisco expertise than Juniper and boy are those Cisco CCIE's smart folks.
    I agree, don't see how any of that applies here though...

    I'm a fan of both Cisco and Juniper, we use the best tool for the job. Here comparing the 3560X to the EX3300 though I don't see why you'd pick the 3560X if the price is about the same. The 3560X is just older, it can't be stacked while the EX3300 supports virtual chassis, 2x 10 GigE ports on a separate module vs 4x SFP+ ports built in, 256MB of memory vs 1GB, support for 1005 VLANs vs 4096, 6000 MAC addresses vs 16,000, and I could keep going. The only reason I'd see that you'd go with the 3560X is dual power supplies instead of using an external redundant power supply, but then the EX4200 has that and wins on the specs by even more than the EX3300 does.

    We have both 3560X's and EX3300's in our network. We're soon removing the 3560X's from our network and we keep adding more EX3300's. The EX3300's are just much more capable switches.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    The 3560X is just older, it can't be stacked while the EX3300 supports virtual chassis, 2x 10 GigE ports on a separate module vs 4x SFP+ ports built in, 256MB of memory vs 1GB, support for 1005 VLANs vs 4096, 6000 MAC addresses vs 16,000, and I could keep going.
    Well but if you compare with the Cisco Catalyst 4948...the specs are 4096 VLANs and 32,000 MAC addresses
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...d8017a72e.html

    I mean for small colocation...like 1 rack or less...i am not sure one really will need more than the 4948...and for a $750 price for a used/refurbished one...getting 2 for redundancy isn't a stupid decision i think.
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  8. #33
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    Also where does brocade place between cisco and juniper...they have the most expensive pricing of all...have no idea for what reason
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Well but if you compare with the Cisco Catalyst 4948...the specs are 4096 VLANs and 32,000 MAC addresses
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...d8017a72e.html

    I mean for small colocation...like 1 rack or less...i am not sure one really will need more than the 4948...and for a $750 price for a used/refurbished one...getting 2 for redundancy isn't a stupid decision i think.
    If you're so cheap that you can't buy a switch that isn't EOL'd you're in the wrong business, imho.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    I agree, don't see how any of that applies here though...

    I'm a fan of both Cisco and Juniper, we use the best tool for the job. Here comparing the 3560X to the EX3300 though I don't see why you'd pick the 3560X if the price is about the same. The 3560X is just older, it can't be stacked while the EX3300 supports virtual chassis, 2x 10 GigE ports on a separate module vs 4x SFP+ ports built in, 256MB of memory vs 1GB, support for 1005 VLANs vs 4096, 6000 MAC addresses vs 16,000, and I could keep going. The only reason I'd see that you'd go with the 3560X is dual power supplies instead of using an external redundant power supply, but then the EX4200 has that and wins on the specs by even more than the EX3300 does.

    We have both 3560X's and EX3300's in our network. We're soon removing the 3560X's from our network and we keep adding more EX3300's. The EX3300's are just much more capable switches.
    Would you say that the EX3300 is worth saving $700 vs a EX4200?
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Would you say that the EX3300 is worth saving $700 vs a EX4200?
    Depends on what you're using it for. If you need a true Layer 3 workhorse or stacking at speeds over say 10 Gbit/sec the EX4200 is likely worth it. If not, the EX3300 likely fits your needs.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Would you say that the EX3300 is worth saving $700 vs a EX4200?
    Depends on what your requirements are. Pros of the EX3300 are the 4 built-in 10Gb ports vs a maximum of 2x 10Gb ports with an add-on module required. Cons of the EX3300 are some missing features, due to being newer hardware, needing an additional EFL license to have feature parity with an EX4200 (BFD, OSPF, Virtual Router, etc.), and only having a single power supply.

    For us, we don't care about the dual power supplies as we'd rather just have a 2nd switch for complete redundancy, and don't need 4x power supplies to do the job of 1 device.

    Some other options though, is if you need 2 switches, you can run 2x EX4200's in a virtual chassis, and then have 4x 10Gb ports in total combined to what would logically be a single device. We're doing this with EX4200-24F's, as we needed an all SFP switch with more than 2x 10Gb ports.

    The EX4300 is also worth consideration, and has the same MSRP as the EX4200. Like the EX3300, there's still some features missing though due to being a newer generation, and you need to buy the EFL.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Also where does brocade place between cisco and juniper...they have the most expensive pricing of all...have no idea for what reason
    I think this statement depends on the specific models. The VDXs offer fabric capabilities (Ethernet Fabrics specifically) and hence are more $$$ than "traditional ethernet".

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Also where does brocade place between cisco and juniper...they have the most expensive pricing of all...have no idea for what reason
    Brocade is not more expensive. In real world deals, you'll usually find it for substantially less than Cisco or Juniper for equivalent devices, which is the primary reason you'd choose it. Their architecture, code quality, and feature set are all decisively inferior to Cisco's or Juniper's. However, if it will do the job you need, it may be worth the cost savings.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    Brocade is not more expensive. In real world deals, you'll usually find it for substantially less than Cisco or Juniper for equivalent devices, which is the primary reason you'd choose it. Their architecture, code quality, and feature set are all decisively inferior to Cisco's or Juniper's. However, if it will do the job you need, it may be worth the cost savings.
    Brocade is not always cheaper. We actually got our new Juniper MX480's for less than Brocade XMRs, primarily because the high density 10 GigE modules from Juniper have been very affordable.

    I would also agree that Cisco and Juniper are just far and away the leaders of the pack in architecture and code quality. Sometimes, for say a lower end need, it might make sense to save the money with another vendor.
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