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  1. #1
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    AMD Warsaw CPU's

    Anyone have any indication of when AMD's Warsaw CPU's will become available? Back in mid/late '13 they were targeting Q1 2014. Is that still the game plan? I haven't been able to find any recent updates regarding Warsaw, everyone's talking about their APU's.
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  2. #2
    AMD doesn't have any credible offerings in the server market. Right now the only options are going to be Ivy Bridge EP, Haswell, or possibly Avoton (if you like microservers).

    The real problem comes down to power and I/O. Intel CPUs have around 48-80GB/s of integrated I/O, AMD has nothing.

    David

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkanter View Post
    AMD doesn't have any credible offerings in the server market. Right now the only options are going to be Ivy Bridge EP, Haswell, or possibly Avoton (if you like microservers).

    The real problem comes down to power and I/O. Intel CPUs have around 48-80GB/s of integrated I/O, AMD has nothing.
    Microsoft found something credible in AMD since their Azure IaaS offering is based on them. That is, at least, in the eastern US region - I never bothered trying to set up a virtual machine in other regions to confirm they have parity, but I figure that should make image portability solid...

    Don't get me wrong, for most of my production servers I'm using Intel, but AMD certainly still works for a lot of applications, and I do use them here and there.

    Did the Haswell based Xeons get released? Last I looked, they're still on Ivy Bridge?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectZone View Post

    Don't get me wrong, for most of my production servers I'm using Intel, but AMD certainly still works for a lot of applications, and I do use them here and there.

    Did the Haswell based Xeons get released? Last I looked, they're still on Ivy Bridge?

    --Chris
    Agreed, there are still many uses for AMD servers.

    Haswell based servers have been out for awhile, but only as the Xeon E3 line, Dual cpu E5 lines are at Ivy right now.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebNX View Post
    Haswell based servers have been out for awhile, but only as the Xeon E3 line, Dual cpu E5 lines are at Ivy right now.
    Got it. I only ever look at the dual socket and bigger setups for servers myself, that must be why I overlooked it. Thanks for the heads up.

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  6. #6
    The E7 line should be getting an update soon with Ivy Bridge. I'll know more soon, but won't be able to talk about it till release.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkanter View Post
    AMD doesn't have any credible offerings in the server market. Right now the only options are going to be Ivy Bridge EP, Haswell, or possibly Avoton (if you like microservers).

    The real problem comes down to power and I/O. Intel CPUs have around 48-80GB/s of integrated I/O, AMD has nothing.

    David
    That is the most short-sighted post I've ever read. Do some research on what AMD has to offer before you bash them. There's a reason that Sony and Microsoft both used their chips in the PS4 and Xbox One as well.
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  8. #8
    I'll try and be polite here, but attacking my credibility on this subject isn't going to work...largely because this is my area of expertise. I wrote the most detailed article on AMD processors out there and have done likewise for recent Intel processors including SNB-EP:
    http://www.realworldtech.com/bulldozer/

    If you'd care to discuss in detail why I'm wrong, I'm happy to indulge in a technical discussion (especially if you have data), but simply trying to dismiss me as ignorant isn't the basis for any rational discussion.

    Right now the main reason I can see to pick AMD CPUs for 2S+ systems is that you are constrained to upgrade an existing platform. Coincidentally, the market share seems to reflect this.

    DK

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkanter View Post
    I'll try and be polite here, but attacking my credibility on this subject isn't going to work...largely because this is my area of expertise. I wrote the most detailed article on AMD processors out there and have done likewise for recent Intel processors including SNB-EP:
    http://www.realworldtech.com/bulldozer/

    If you'd care to discuss in detail why I'm wrong, I'm happy to indulge in a technical discussion (especially if you have data), but simply trying to dismiss me as ignorant isn't the basis for any rational discussion.

    Right now the main reason I can see to pick AMD CPUs for 2S+ systems is that you are constrained to upgrade an existing platform. Coincidentally, the market share seems to reflect this.

    DK
    So I skimmed through your article, and you pointed out that while not ideal for single-threaded performance, "For highly threaded and parallel applications, Magny-Cours is efficient and affordable".. which is exactly what we're going to be using them for. I obviously didn't read the entire thing yet, but care to expand on why you then said that "AMD doesn't have any credible offerings in the server market"?
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  10. #10
    That was true when I wrote the article several years ago. The problem is that AMD hasn't improved their offerings much (it's 10 cores now I think and about hte same memory bandwidth). In contrast, Intel's performance has gotten dramatically better (probably 2X memory bandwidth, 8X IO bandwidth).

    The integrated IO is huge, and AMD cancelled their products that were supposed to have on-die PCI-E. That makes a huge difference in both system power and performance. Moreover, if you look at the E5v2, Intel has 12 core versions...which probably offer 30% more performance per-core...and more cores.

    David

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkanter View Post
    That was true when I wrote the article several years ago. The problem is that AMD hasn't improved their offerings much (it's 10 cores now I think and about hte same memory bandwidth). In contrast, Intel's performance has gotten dramatically better (probably 2X memory bandwidth, 8X IO bandwidth).

    The integrated IO is huge, and AMD cancelled their products that were supposed to have on-die PCI-E. That makes a huge difference in both system power and performance. Moreover, if you look at the E5v2, Intel has 12 core versions...which probably offer 30% more performance per-core...and more cores.

    David
    Interesting. Just looked up some info on the E5v3 and it looks like it's going to destroy everything else currently on the market. My main interest in AMD is their price-per-core. Right now you get ~12 AMD cores for about the same price as 8 Intel... and yes, I realize there's a performance difference, but it's a hard decision to make when you're trying to justify cost/performance.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Interesting. Just looked up some info on the E5v3 and it looks like it's going to destroy everything else currently on the market. My main interest in AMD is their price-per-core. Right now you get ~12 AMD cores for about the same price as 8 Intel... and yes, I realize there's a performance difference, but it's a hard decision to make when you're trying to justify cost/performance.
    You are absolutely correct - Intel is charging a premium for their products. But if you are looking at TCO (specifically the cost of power), Intel's products are usually superior.

    I've had friends who cannot afford to use AMD processors, even if the CPUs were free. I did a double take when I heard that, but it was sadly true.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Interesting. Just looked up some info on the E5v3 and it looks like it's going to destroy everything else currently on the market. My main interest in AMD is their price-per-core. Right now you get ~12 AMD cores for about the same price as 8 Intel... and yes, I realize there's a performance difference, but it's a hard decision to make when you're trying to justify cost/performance.
    In most workloads we've found though 1 Intel Core = 1.5-2 AMD Cores, then there's the power usage - When you're talking beefy systems for virtualisation the Opex most often outweighs the Capex.

    We used AMD exclusively after Intel switched to the P4 (Before that we used Tualatin S from Intel), but when the 5400 came along we switched back to Intel again and haven't looked back.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrypted View Post
    Right now you get ~12 AMD cores for about the same price as 8 Intel... and yes, I realize there's a performance difference, but it's a hard decision to make when you're trying to justify cost/performance.
    With AMD's current architecture, two ALU (which AMD refers to as a 'core') share an FPU. It involves more silicon than just HyperThreading, but is not a complete physical core. AMD simply doesn't have anything competitive with any of Intel's higher end CPU's right now. The offerings they do have offer a slight edge on price/performance, but they lose significantly on performance/watt, which actually results in Intel winning on TCO. And considering how power is usually the constraining factor in data centre environments, Intel comes out the big winner.
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  15. #15
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    Looks like these are starting to surface.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-W...e-418906.shtml

    $421 for the 12-core
    $663 for the 16-core


    Also looks like AMD is giving up on the high-end server market CPU game.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...r_Servers.html
    Last edited by Encrypted; 01-20-2014 at 10:49 PM.
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