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12-26-2013, 11:19 AM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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Any hosting related business that needs little or no end user support?
As the title says, I would like to find out if there's any hosting related business that needs none to little time supporting the end customers?
How about selling domains - does it need too much end user support?
What other options are there besides domains?
Thanks in advance for all the help...
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12-26-2013, 11:27 AM #2Web Hosting Master
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Domains and SSL certificates probably require very little compared to conventional hosting. You can also resell another provider by way of their commission programs - then you've got NO support obligations beyond billing issues.
Honestly, the vast majority of our tickets come from the same users each time. There's always an adjustment period over the first few weeks, where a customer might need help getting things up and running. But beyond that, most of our customers never submit any support requests. There's something to be said for investing in a stable infrastructure.
You could also simply refuse to provide end-user support. Several hosting companies exist that do nothing more than ensure hardware and network uptime. Anything past the network port or OS is the user's responsibility.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
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12-26-2013, 01:19 PM #3Aspiring Evangelist
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Along with Domains, SSL certificates, i would add also Email accounts.
Otherwise if you sell VPS, Dedicated you might sell thrm as Bare Metal Boxes with no end support.
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12-27-2013, 04:38 AM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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Thank you FRH Lisa and WebMaister.
Any good reseller(commission) programs out there?
How much support does dns hosting need (I can provide support but not 24 hours,maybe reply within 24 hours) if there is any money in it?
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12-27-2013, 06:22 AM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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Just to add I'm willing to resell shared, vps and dedicated without having to provide end user technical support.
I'm willing to do the sales and marketing (since it's not always 24 hours)... So any good hosts there that allow reselling for the above?
FRH Lisa I see you're yet to start a reseller program... I'd be keen to have a look when you start one.
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12-27-2013, 09:01 AM #6Disabled
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12-27-2013, 09:57 AM #7Web Hosting Master
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BurstNET's is far and away the simplest. It's a flat 25% discount on the wholesale side (sell it under your name), or a 25% commission on the reseller side (sell it under their name). We used them to get started with our early VPSes and they've been great. We only ever sold the premium VPSes so I can't speak to their discount VPSes, but we got a lot of compliments on how stable and potent the VPSes were.
Nowadays we use our own Xen hardware. There's a lot more money to be made this way, but there's nothing wrong with using a reseller account to hit the ground running.
The last time I looked their shared hosting reseller program wasn't anything great, but their VPSes / dedicated servers / colocation services are awesome. And now I see they're offering OnApp cloud services as well.
Limestone also has a great reseller program for dedicated servers. Their add-on / configuration prices are some of the best in the industry. The only catch with any VPS / dedicated reseller program is that you will sometimes have to act as a liaison between your customers and your vendor, so you aren't completely wiping your hands of support.
Thanks! We'll be doing something interesting in early 2014. Keep an eye on the offers forums!▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
▐█▌Shared :: VPS :: Reseller :: Dedicated :: Co-Location :: SSL Certificates
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12-27-2013, 10:08 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Like others have said, domains, SSL certificates, and email packages tend to require little-to-no support.
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01-02-2014, 10:07 AM #9Junior Guru Wannabe
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Happy New Year to all of you.
So I've been thinking a lot about this. The reason I started thinking along the lines of offering hosting related services is that I often get customers who enquire or ask for suggestions regarding domains and hosting.
I am into web development/programming and it's natural that anyone getting a website is going to need hosting and a domain. I already spend time and energy on this, helping my customers with this. At the moment, based on their needs, I just recommend them a Registrar/Host I myself use but I still have to spend a bit of time on this explaining them the basic stuff, what plan might be more suitable for them and managing the stuff for them.
Also, the web develoment business is still a small setup, so given that I am already doing some of this stuff, it intrigued my interest if I could build a business out of hosting or something related that could provide with recurring additional income each month.
So far, I've had lots of concerns -
Like the end user support thing - you people did provide me some options to resolve this issue.
However, another concern that I've had lately is regarding the client's data - it's safety and availability at all times.
There are possibilities like hardware failure (rare but even with raid setup), data corruption, human error or any kind of calamities.
I just won't feel good leting anyone down on this and someone losing their data. I know customers should possibly have a backup of their own data but you know customers can be careless and put all the responsibility on the host. I'm not sure if there is anything that is 100% safe, but what's the best possible way to ensure that customers never lose their data ?
Based on this, I've been thinking about the various options I have
1)Not to get into the web hosting business at all but instead do something related that doesn't need too much support or maintaining customer's data/backups. Is it possible to just offer Domain Names, SSl and Emails (Emails probably again would need some kind of backup) without hosting and if it is, is it worth the time based on the profit margins?
2)Offer Domains/SSl/Emails, however for hosting, just be an affiliate for some other host(making some affiliate income in return).
3)Resell for another provider with good end user support and someone that has some solid backup policy in place.
4)Do it all myself properly if I can overcome some of the concerns I have.
I would appreciate some thoughts from you experts out there on the options that I listed above...
And If you could offer any suggestions on - whether besides domains, ssl and emails, is there anything else you could offer that could provide with recurring additional income each month. How about voip, gaming or vpn etc, possibly being a reseller of some other type of service? (Don't know much about these fields, but I'm a geek and can find my way around).
Thanks in advance for all your help.Last edited by host2010; 01-02-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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01-02-2014, 01:09 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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So many overlook these two concepts;
1. Provide customers the same quality I would want myself
2. Most clients and customers, unless their hands on people, just need a working site and working email...that's it.
I've seen many amusing questions from "what do I name my company" to "what kind of cereal should I eat since I'm incapable of making my own decisions"....but how to make $$$$ doing absolutely nothing. Cue train-wreck music.
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01-02-2014, 04:23 PM #11Junior Guru Wannabe
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Thank you for reading and understanding my post in depth
Hopefully, someone else with experience in the hosting industry will be a bit more gentle and understand that my limitations stem from
1)Being relatively new in the industry, so trying to understand it all before jumping in blindly.
2)Being a small setup - so not overloading myself with work that I cannot handle.
3)Everyone's circumstances are different, what is good for one person is not necessarily good for the other person as well. And making decent money working lesser number of hours through some good planning is not actually a bad idea.
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01-02-2014, 05:06 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Yes, definitely possible. No, the profit margins will be slim. Think along the lines of $5 - $20 per customer per year. Wholesale cost for a domain name is around $8 - $10 / year and wholesale cost for an SSL certificate is around $13 / year (Comodo Essential). SSL certificates and domain names are pretty much afterthoughts for us. Although there isn't much involved, you're still doing a disproportionate amount of work for very little gain.
2)Offer Domains/SSl/Emails, however for hosting, just be an affiliate for some other host(making some affiliate income in return).
A lot of people on WHT will rally against affiliate programs and reseller programs. They'll claim you aren't a "real" host or worse. Those people are pedantic, condescending idiots. If you're providing a service to your customers and your customers value that service enough for you to turn a profit, then you're a business.
More hosts need to learn when a service is beyond their ability / when to hand it off to another company, and I commend you for thinking this way!
3)Resell for another provider with good end user support and someone that has some solid backup policy in place.
That's another big advantage to going the reseller route: you can easily grow into your own hardware when the time comes. You can also put together your own dream solution from multiple providers: maybe six months from now you'll score a huge e-commerce site that demands the power of a dedicated server, so you partner with a server reseller to add to your portfolio.
There are several resellers who provide white-label support to your end users. InnoHosting, EZPZ, ThePrimeHost, and XEHost all come to mind. You can also find a number of third party companies to provide support to your customers -- figure on spending around $150 - $300 / month, depending on quality of service, number of tickets, etc.
We started off with a reseller account from EZPZ, migrated to InnoHosting, and now are on our own. We also used to resell VPSes from BurstNET, and now we use our own hardware. Those resale programs put a lot of money into our coffers, all with no capital expense on our part. And we still resell dedicated servers from Limestone and BurstNET.
The catch with being a reseller is that (a) you won't make as much money (especially with VPSes and dedicated servers), and (b) you won't have as much control. IMHO those are relatively minor concerns. Whether or not they're worth the tradeoff is a decision only you can make.
4)Do it all myself properly if I can overcome some of the concerns I have.
If you do want to go out on your own (without an affiliate or reseller program), please read as many posts in this forum as you can stomach. Look at what everybody else goes through so you'll have an idea what you need to go through. And please get help from a third-party sever management company that can help you out when the going gets rough (and it will).
It's not difficult to do, but when you start taking customer money in exchange for service, you owe it to them to be able to handle whatever comes your way.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
▐█▌Shared :: VPS :: Reseller :: Dedicated :: Co-Location :: SSL Certificates
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01-02-2014, 05:22 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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I don't if it's condescending or experienced and annoyed with short-cutting.
We've all started somewhere, but there's a clear divide when it comes to someone who truly cares about their business.
Years ago, research for me meant go to a library. Now research is asking a question on a forum or social media and having people "do" the research for you with multiple answers. Very lazy.
But to your statement, many resellers are not clear and claim they ARE the host. That's when the slippery slope begins. Technically they are a business, but the customer needs to understand that if an issue arises, they have to wait twice as long for a response since the "host" also has to submit a ticket to their host.....which ties in with the previous comments. When I was with HG, if a customer had an issue, I could email HG and it would be resolved quickly. Once communicating with HG was an issue, I left...but I was lucky since I could resolve issues and had my own resources.
I do have an issue with some affiliates. Basically throw people on a bad host or non-secure environments just to get $$$$.
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01-02-2014, 05:45 PM #14Disabled
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Originally Posted by FRH Lisa
Just be clear to your clients that you're an affiliate ("we've partnered with ___ because we wanted a reliable company that we would trust to host our OWN data", etc).
A lot of people on WHT will rally against affiliate programs and reseller programs. They'll claim you aren't a "real" host or worse. Those people are pedantic, condescending idiots. If you're providing a service to your customers and your customers value that service enough for you to turn a profit, then you're a business.
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01-02-2014, 08:20 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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I'm one of the pedantic, condescending idiots, for sure. If you have no money to invest, you shouldn't be opening a business. It's that simple. If you have no time to run a business, then you shouldn't be running a business. Again...very simple. No business plan? Same thing.
You don't open a restaurant without any of those 3 things. You don't open a laundromat, a printing business, a lawncare service, or any other business for that matter. Yet people run to the hosting industry and look at it as a way to make a quick buck without having to actually do anything you would have to do for a normal business.
Far too often, these resellers don't make as much money as they thought they were going to make, and they simply fold, leaving their clients high and dry. Not saying that doesn't happen with non-resellers, but it's far easier for the resellers to walk away and wash their hands of the mess they created. You see it all the time.
So if you want to get into business, get into business properly and for the right reasons. If you want to try to make a quick buck, go to Vegas and put your money on red or black.
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01-02-2014, 11:32 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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Except it isn't that simple. What do you say to a web developer who wants to bundle hosting with his or her development services? Why should he go out, purchase a server, rack it in a DC, become a savvy Linux admin, master Apache / PHP / MySQL / cPanel / WHM / exim / everything else, and run his own hosting operation when he can just let someone with experience handle that for you? Their customers are better off in the hands of an experienced reseller provider than someone who just fired up their first LAMP server.
My biggest beef with the anti-reseller stance is that you can make that argument anywhere up and down the food chain. Unless you own and operate your own DC, you're buying services from someone else, dressing them up, and reselling them under your own name.
I'll even go one step further and say that knowing how to grow and develop your business is more important these days than knowing how to administer things from the technical side. You might have the most robust infrastructure in the world, but you aren't going to make a penny if nobody knows you exist. Conversely, you can have an average infrastructure and make a fortune if you know how to get people to look at you (as evidenced by the volume of mediocre hosts out there).
There are extremes, of course. Get a crappy cut-rate reseller program and the "cheapest" server management company on WHT, and you're going to have problems. That's why it's so important to research who you work with carefully, as you really are putting your reputation in their hands.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
▐█▌Shared :: VPS :: Reseller :: Dedicated :: Co-Location :: SSL Certificates
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01-02-2014, 11:43 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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"Caring about your business" and "using a reseller program" aren't mutually exclusive, though.
Years ago, research for me meant go to a library. Now research is asking a question on a forum or social media and having people "do" the research for you with multiple answers. Very lazy.
But to your statement, many resellers are not clear and claim they ARE the host. That's when the slippery slope begins. Technically they are a business, but the customer needs to understand that if an issue arises, they have to wait twice as long for a response since the "host" also has to submit a ticket to their host.....which ties in with the previous comments.
Now, if you want to make the argument that putting two slow providers together will equal a horrible response time, then I agree with you. If the upstream provider is taking forever to respond, then it's time to find a new host.
What irks me the most about the anti-reseller segment of the community is that they usually throw up the worst examples to make their point. "Well what if the new host goes out of business? Then what?" Yeah, then what? What if they buy their own servers and then go out of business? There are plenty of fly-by-night hosts that pop up around June and vanish around September every year. Some use reseller accounts, some use VPSes, some use rented servers, some use colo gear, some use old Core2Quads in their parents' basement ...
Ripoffs come in all shapes and sizes. Using those fly-by-night scam hosts to scare customers away from reseller accounts is just silly.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
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01-02-2014, 11:52 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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There are developers that actually have no clue about hosting AND will put their sites and clients sites on a bad host...and then spend hours trying to fix the "problem". I went that extra step and invested in my own servers for my clients and customers. Zero issues and almost zero tickets.
Some developers would rather the host take care of hosting issues....which makes sense and nothing wrong in that, BUT why not put clients on a good host.
Not even going to get into designers that cram clients sites into a regular account (non-reseller). The big clue...asking the developer for ftp or login information and not able to get it.
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01-02-2014, 11:59 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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I like your points, but I believe it still has to do with resellers.
Example of my prior business;
Startup between 1980 to 1990...possibly $100,00 to a million
Startup between 1991 to 2000...possibly $10,00 to $200,000
Now, I would average between $3,000 to $15,000
Those numbers are just equipment costs. No rent/lease or advertise included.
To become a reseller host.....$100 a year for an account.....$50 template....$9 domain......instant host in the same playing field as a company with an actual start-up budget.
Also, according to WHT rules....after 10 posts your a host.
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01-03-2014, 03:16 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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I think that's what really makes the difference: choosing a good host over a bad one. Going with a fly-by-night host (of any nature, not just reseller) just because they were the "cheapest" is always going to lead to disaster.
I see it this way: take one of the more highly-recommended providers out there, like some of the ones I mentioned earlier. If you're a developer, you can refer your clients directly to that host, or you can set them up under a reseller account with end-user support. In either case the customer is going to get the same level of service from a solid company, but with the reseller program, the developer has an easy way to bundle in lifetime / long-term hosting. Same ends, different means.
Some developers would rather the host take care of hosting issues....which makes sense and nothing wrong in that, BUT why not put clients on a good host.
Not even going to get into designers that cram clients sites into a regular account (non-reseller). The big clue...asking the developer for ftp or login information and not able to get it.
For the record, we don't currently offer reseller accounts, so we really don't have a horse in this race. In fact the argument I'm making actually encourages customers to go with our competitors.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
▐█▌Shared :: VPS :: Reseller :: Dedicated :: Co-Location :: SSL Certificates
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01-03-2014, 03:44 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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Hopefully Host2010 is taking notes from our conversation
No argument there.
Generally true...although through research, there are the hidden gems that focused on low-cost...not cheap, and have done a better job than some offering premium prices. But it is a hit/miss whereas premium is the way to go...but just like anything electronic, premium can have their off moments too. Backups backup backups.
It's just the sad reality that some designers will swear by the cheap host for whatever commission they received, and accept the fact that they will HAVE to put aside time to either fix, submit a ticket, or get a call at any random time that something is wrong. Some people are attracted to "drama", or as I would call them, people who live in a constant State of Emergency.
Same here....no resellers. The designers I work with all use VPS accounts. Resellers sometimes = starting off = not fully experienced. There's one host on here that focuses on resellers. The amount of issues he has to deal with and gets blamed about...not worth it. Inexperienced leading the inexperienced.
Just common sense and looking out the customer. I've done it too.
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01-03-2014, 03:59 PM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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FRH Lisa , I'm really grateful for your input. I'll come back and update my post later in the day to address some of the concerns being raised here...
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01-03-2014, 05:45 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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Lisa, you can throw in all the mumbo jumbo and write huge threads to cloud the issue all you want.
My extremely valid point still stands. If you don't have time to handle the absolute basics of a business (i.e. customer service), then you shouldn't be running a business. I don't care if it's a reseller, affiliate, or you own millions of dollars worth of hardware. If you can't run a business properly, then you shouldn't be going into business. It really is that simple.
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01-07-2014, 10:47 AM #24Quality Web Hosting Matters
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Domains are not exactly without support, we have numerous questions of setting DNS, setting the domain to work with blogger and more.
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01-07-2014, 03:10 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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Sorry for bringing up details and examples, I guess.
My extremely valid point still stands. If you don't have time to handle the absolute basics of a business (i.e. customer service), then you shouldn't be running a business.
Your entire argument is based on the flawed premise that resellers can't provide good customer service.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
▐█▌"The only thing better than the world's best customer service is never needing them in the first place."
▐█▌Shared :: VPS :: Reseller :: Dedicated :: Co-Location :: SSL Certificates
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