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  1. #1

    Secure Dragon :: Prejudicial?

    part of my endeavor eliminating single point failure, I had some ideas and plans, which I have concept tested and seemed bulletproof. I went go ahead search for some DDoS protected VPS, most of the VPS were too much, I only needed small VPS with respectable protection, I don't abuse resource or commence illegal activities, so it was more of about finding proper priced VPS, not a VPS provider willing to go extreme.

    I found the best candidate, that being it was the secured dragons, their packages and pricing was incredibly well comboation, and that being I decided to go on order one month to quickly test, and was completely ready to purchase multiple year-worth VPSes.

    After waiting, I got few emails about invoice, invoice payments, accounts created, and some more. And then few hours passed, all of sudden I received an refund or apparently so. I didn't understand why, I know they do customer checks, as mentioned, I don't do illegal or things that over-use resources, or even there is any history under my name. the payments was made from verified paypal and has long reputation.

    Does anybody here know why?

  2. #2
    You're best bet is to ask them directly in a ticket. The owner is a member here and I'm sure he'll chime in soon. There must have been a reason, either it was a high-risk order or you've got a history or perhaps it was just a mistake.

    We'll see
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  3. #3
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    I've never read any negative reviews about Joe or his business practices. As was suggested earlier, it would probably be easier to contact him directly to find out what circumstances warranted your service being dismissed. Most providers aren't in the custom of terminating services at random. Have you made contact with them about this, yet?

  4. #4
    Of course I have emailed about my concerns, but I was just rather very confused, I have dealt with so many hosting companies it's first time I've been rejected.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zankza View Post
    Of course I have emailed about my concerns, but I was just rather very confused, I have dealt with so many hosting companies it's first time I've been rejected.
    And what did they say?

    Every provider has the right to terminate the order for some reason. I am sure they are looking to earn but at the same time, they need to also avoid problem in the future :-)

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  6. #6
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    Besides signing up with a PO Box (which violates our guidelines), the client's colorful past on HackForums was the deciding factor for refunding his payment.

    I have a strict policy about not allowing clients to use our network who have engaged in illegal activity in the past, especially on our DDOS protected services because every single one has caused us more headache and cost us more money than it was worth. We've had dozens of people tell me personally that they've grown up and won't use our servers for anything malicious and then less than 24 hours later we have to terminate them for various reasons and if we don't terminate them we get to deal with multiple chargebacks down the road. It's happened so many times that I cannot make any exceptions to this policy. Our DDOS protected services make up less than 1% of our total services but they account for more than 50% of our chargebacks and abuse reports.

    Basically, people with a sketchy past looking for DDOS protection either attract the wrong kind of attention or they deliver the wrong kind.

    Zankza, I am sorry if my response to your ticket was not satisfactory but as a business owner I have to look out for my clients and since I cannot be on 24x7 to make sure everybody is playing nice I have to use the tools available to me including my best judgement and experience tells me not to take unnecessary risks with our network. This post is a generalization of my experience and not a reflection on you personally so don't take this the wrong way, we just don't have the money or the staff to take such risks at this time.
    -Joe @ Secure Dragon LLC.
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  7. #7
    I knew you'd find some entries at hackforums, but hackforums is not HACKING forum. It is 100% legal USA company. I enjoy hackforums because it's very active board, there is plenty a lot of other computer hobbyists on that board to discuss cool things.

    I think you are confusing hackforums as being illegal hacking forum. Infact the owner there had started various campaigns where redefining what is hacking. ( http://www.hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=289416 : http://puu.sh/5n6zZ/ce1f25460b.png )

    I understand your statue of business, but I think you really should do your homework and research what exactly kind of activities lies and don't judge book by it's cover.

    BTW here's an typical thread activity I've got here.

    http://puu.sh/5n6qW/cbcaa582bb.png

    More-over, about the PO box, I believe I had accidentally set po box in the paypal page, anyhow, I'm willing to provide proper ID and matching address.

    Let me know if you've changed your mind otherwise I'll have to find other VPS hosting to spend my 500$ amount budget on.

  8. #8
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    Joe is entitled to make up his own mind about the clients he wants and I don't think waving your willy around in the form of $500 is going to impress anyone or change minds.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    52
    Quote Originally Posted by ZKuJoe View Post
    Besides signing up with a PO Box (which violates our guidelines), the client's colorful past on HackForums was the deciding factor for refunding his payment.

    I have a strict policy about not allowing clients to use our network who have engaged in illegal activity in the past, especially on our DDOS protected services because every single one has caused us more headache and cost us more money than it was worth. We've had dozens of people tell me personally that they've grown up and won't use our servers for anything malicious and then less than 24 hours later we have to terminate them for various reasons and if we don't terminate them we get to deal with multiple chargebacks down the road. It's happened so many times that I cannot make any exceptions to this policy. Our DDOS protected services make up less than 1% of our total services but they account for more than 50% of our chargebacks and abuse reports.

    Basically, people with a sketchy past looking for DDOS protection either attract the wrong kind of attention or they deliver the wrong kind.

    Zankza, I am sorry if my response to your ticket was not satisfactory but as a business owner I have to look out for my clients and since I cannot be on 24x7 to make sure everybody is playing nice I have to use the tools available to me including my best judgement and experience tells me not to take unnecessary risks with our network. This post is a generalization of my experience and not a reflection on you personally so don't take this the wrong way, we just don't have the money or the staff to take such risks at this time.
    So because he is a member of a particular discussion board and has a PO box on his PayPal address you deny him service? I know quite a few reputable businesses here whose owners are registered members of HackForums, you could have at least looked through his posts.

    In regards to the PO box address, why should his PayPal address be of relevance if it is a verified account?
    Last edited by 0x01-Security; 11-19-2013 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0x01-Security View Post
    So because he is a member of a particular discussion board and has a PO box on his PayPal address you deny him service? I know quite a few reputable businesses here whose owners are registered members of HackForums, you could have at least looked through his posts.

    In regards to the PO box address, why should his PayPal address be of relevance if it is a verified account?
    It's trivial to verify a PayPal account, heck there's even guides on HackForums on how to do it. If it smells fishy, it usually is.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nunim View Post
    It's trivial to verify a PayPal account, heck there's even guides on HackForums on how to do it. If it smells fishy, it usually is.
    This is joke.

    Just because I used my nickname, everyone's gonna go crazy cause I'm registered on some skid forum. I may as well even just re-order with different name and this time, there's just no google history and no relevant to names or websites. This system is truly broken and pointless. I'm just laughing at all of this, I can't believe such business practices something like this, I'm not gonna bothering trying to create another account, but if an business have issues, at least do it right way, and do your homework.

    Oh by the way, if you knew anything about HF, they are very incredibly serious about financial fraud, and anything else that itches the government. Your claim "how to verify paypal on HF" has made me immediately identify yourself as closed minded, your just one of those people who just sees "hacking" and start thinking about negative things and just keep blabbering about it. (PROOF: http://puu.sh/5nian/0c7b019850.png and that's just the first page )
    Last edited by 5FSWEP2rk5duug96YLSK; 11-19-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
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    I agree with ZKuJoe they run a reputable company and if it seems fishy it usually is. and a verified paypal account does not mean it is that person it could be hacked, or even that persons account with different information there are many forums that tell you how to get a paypal account without using your "own" information.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sjr2004 View Post
    I agree with ZKuJoe they run a reputable company and if it seems fishy it usually is. and a verified paypal account does not mean it is that person it could be hacked, or even that persons account with different information there are many forums that tell you how to get a paypal account without using your "own" information.
    There is nothing fishy about it, the only fishy part was because apparently my name is affiliated to an computer forum. Which is stupid IMO. From now and onwards I'll never use my nick for account name, it's just sad story of people prejudging.

  14. #14
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    Dec 2011
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    You have to understand this from a business point of view ZKuJoe is trying to protect his company and he has all the right to do that. He refunded you so it may be best to find a different company that will best suite your needs there are many web hosts that are able to do that for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankza View Post
    This is joke.

    Just because I used my nickname, everyone's gonna go crazy cause I'm registered on some skid forum. I may as well even just re-order with different name and this time, there's just no google history and no relevant to names or websites. This system is truly broken and pointless. I'm just laughing at all of this, I can't believe such business practices something like this, I'm not gonna bothering trying to create another account, but if an business have issues, at least do it right way, and do your homework.

    Oh by the way, if you knew anything about HF, they are very incredibly serious about financial fraud, and anything else that itches the government. Your claim "how to verify paypal on HF" has made me immediately identify yourself as closed minded, your just one of those people who just sees "hacking" and start thinking about negative things and just keep blabbering about it. (PROOF: http://puu.sh/5nian/0c7b019850.png and that's just the first page )

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sjr2004 View Post
    You have to understand this from a business point of view ZKuJoe is trying to protect his company and he has all the right to do that. He refunded you so it may be best to find a different company that will best suite your needs there are many web hosts that are able to do that for you.
    I'm all in about protecting business, I have my own business to operate and oversight it's life. But depending on things like what is your name affiliated with which website is broken. Any business would be fool to determine someone's identity by just solely one phrase name, not even full name, not even real name. I could had picked out John Smith as my username and it could had been my real name. Just like people are so determined by IP-banning will take care of particular people, clearly they haven't understood the fact IPs are unreliable and the fact amount of tools today exists to circumvent the whole idea of IP identity. The whole point of this is that I am rather laughing how those business are so determined because of naming they are able to decipher a great plot.

    A real business would require extra information such as identity, justifications, etc and even better request security deposit or pay in advance for possible damages, or the most popular of all, just request holding time, 99% of the "bad-people" will immediately quit and move on.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0x01-Security View Post
    So because he is a member of a particular discussion board and has a PO box on his PayPal address you deny him service? I know quite a few reputable businesses here whose owners are registered members of HackForums, you could have at least looked through his posts.

    In regards to the PO box address, why should his PayPal address be of relevance if it is a verified account?
    I know my post was long so you probably skimmed over the part where I said he was involved in illegal activities. Enlisting the service of others to hack a competitors website and servers is exactly the reason we denied him service.

    I have nothing against HF, they have made a lot of progress in the past year and the owner is a good guy who I've worked with prior to knowing he owned HF. There is nothing wrong with having an account on HF, there is something wrong with hiring people to do illegal activities on there.

    OP, if you really wish to obtain service from us then we can work something out in the form of a check or money order to prepay for service for 1 year. This is the only way I can guarantee that my company and clients will be protected since every single time I made an exception to this policy it was my company and clients who suffered for me taking such a risk.
    -Joe @ Secure Dragon LLC.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ZKuJoe View Post
    I know my post was long so you probably skimmed over the part where I said he was involved in illegal activities. Enlisting the service of others to hack a competitors website and servers is exactly the reason we denied him service.

    I have nothing against HF, they have made a lot of progress in the past year and the owner is a good guy who I've worked with prior to knowing he owned HF. There is nothing wrong with having an account on HF, there is something wrong with hiring people to do illegal activities on there.

    I appreciate the discussion that's come from this thread but nothing said here will help me change my mind simply because every exception I've ever made for this policy has cost us money and it's not fair to my company or my clients if I take risks with their resources.
    What illegal activities ? Having an account at hackforums is illegal "activities"??

    "Enlisting the service of others to hack a competitors website and servers is exactly the reason we denied him service."

    I don't know how you got that idea at all, seriously, I don't do anything like that at all, not even close. Anybody at HF can feel free to check my posts/threads/involvements, 99% of the time I stay in the hardware sector. I Suppose being hardware guru is illegaly hacking competitors websites.

    In all particular, it's you who's being fishy here, not me. Honestly.
    Last edited by 5FSWEP2rk5duug96YLSK; 11-19-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  18. #18
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    Here's a quote from you on HF:

    hello, im new, i need sorta of help/team.

    the main website to be hacked is igg.com and top.igg.com

    and it would be nice if we can take down forum.top.igg.com

    reason?: IGG are stupid people, they are chinese and they never listen to players.
    scams people's money via item mall etc, ( not always)

    (and possible not sure if this is allowed, i run private server, they have been trying attack on us.)

    eh if you guys need more some info or w.e im gladly to give my best to help more.

    sorry im not rich, i wont be paying but i got some dedicated hardware.(honestly) i hope i would get help and see IGG fall. Big Grin

    BIG thanks for reading and hopefully u would support!
    Anybody else see a problem with this? And the account that posted this is linked to the same e-mail address you signed up with in our billing system. I'll be glad to share that information if you insist that you still did nothing wrong. I also have to question how much it takes to get banned from HF.

    Lastly, I find it very strange that shortly after my reply we get hit with a DDOS attack when we went months without one. Weird.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ZKuJoe View Post
    Here's a quote from you on HF:



    Anybody else see a problem with this? And the account that posted this is linked to the same e-mail address you signed up with in our billing system. I'll be glad to share that information if you insist that you still did nothing wrong. I also have to question how much it takes to get banned from HF.

    Lastly, I find it very strange that shortly after my reply we get hit with a DDOS attack when we went months without one. Weird.
    After quick, searching of your quoted post,

    http://www.hackforums.net/archive/in...ead-72428.html

    http://puu.sh/5nuGv/02659ce88e.png

    This is not me.

    EDIT: After doing some searches, I'm shocked, I've never knew someone was playing around with my email, whoever that guy was he sure as hell has horrible grammars, nowhere like who I am. I'm sorry you had to blindly fall yourself in this belief, it's truly saddening. This is going nowhere, at least now I managed to dig and get the REAL reason from you.

    Thank you and everyone else for your comments.
    Last edited by 5FSWEP2rk5duug96YLSK; 11-19-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  20. #20
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    I'm willing to bet Joe has dozens of clients he is not comfortable with and you were one of them... get over it I get sketchy with anyone that as the word hack in any investigation I do...

    Find a new hobby on the internet.
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  21. #21
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    Really? I think we're done here if you're not going to be truthful here. This is the exact same e-mail address you used to sign up for service with us.

    http://www.hackforums.net/showthread...875#pid2057875
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hfemail.png  
    -Joe @ Secure Dragon LLC.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by respite View Post
    I'm willing to bet Joe has dozens of clients he is not comfortable with and you were one of them... get over it I get sketchy with anyone that as the word hack in any investigation I do...

    Find a new hobby on the internet.
    Thanks for being ignorant, I am currently enjoying my hobby as hardware fanatic at HF boards.

  23. #23
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    @Zankza, if you read my posts you'll see that I gave you an option to obtain service from us. That option still stands if you are still interested in it, just contact me via PM or ticket and we'll work it out. If that option doesn't work for you then I wish you luck.
    -Joe @ Secure Dragon LLC.
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  24. #24
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    OP - any Business has a right to refuse service for any reason. And Joe has stated clearly that all the checks he did pointed to you being a high risk client and refused to provide service, which is his right. Honestly, I think that the only explanation given should have been that your order was identified as high risk without giving any details as to why - which you yourself have stated that you will avoid doing when placing an order in the future.

    He has even offered you an option where he will provide service - and yet you want to argue?

    There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth. Your attitude is swinging me well away from your side of the story as being the truth.

    Lets face it, there are thousands of providers out there - If one does not want your custom, find someone whom is willing to work with you.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZKuJoe View Post
    OP, if you really wish to obtain service from us then we can work something out in the form of a check or money order to prepay for service for 1 year.
    Considering everything that has been posted in this thread it sounds like a good compromise to me!

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