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  1. #1
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    Downsides of AppLogic?

    So... I'd like to hear everyones input on the downsides and/or comparisons to other 'cloud' solutions for AppLogic...

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    No built-in control panel for customers. Not necessarily downside as you can purchase third party solution for this (just additional money)
    No Infiniband support (yet)
    No tiered storage--e.g., SAS pool, SSD pool, etc (yet)

    But the upside, including their pricing structure, outweighs the downsides, IMO.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    But the upside, including their pricing structure, outweighs the downsides, IMO.
    Last time I checked, it was $75 per processor used (as many cores per processor). It's not so great for anyone deploying E3 servers.
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  4. #4
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    $75 per proc per month?

    They also have perpetual license, which, IMO, is what make it a sweet deal.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    $75 per proc per month?

    They also have perpetual license, which, IMO, is what make it a sweet deal.
    I spoke to BirdHosting and got a quote through them. I did not receive any perpetual licensing options. Could you share their perpetual pricing?
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  6. #6
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    For perpetual, I think you will have to go direct with CA. I am not sure if I can give the pricing in public. I will ask my CA rep.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    For perpetual, I think you will have to go direct with CA. I am not sure if I can give the pricing in public. I will ask my CA rep.
    Can you give a range? Also is perpetual per core, processor, or server?
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  8. #8
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    Applogic charge by socket, regardless of cores. This is another thing that makes them more attractive, compared to OnApp. In fact, I think OnApp is the only virtualization platform out there that charges by core.

    There is also mandatory 20% yearly support fee for all perpetual license and they may want you to sign a one year, two years, or three years contract (support contract is mandatory over this period).
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  9. #9
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    I think support isn't as good as onapp.

  10. #10
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    Hello,

    Applogic is really a completely unstable collection of loosely-connected perl scripts.

    Here's a quick run down of the issues I have noted in large public cloud installations from partners of CA (more than 50-100 nodes total running this software [not all in the same grid])

    * Block redundancy is totally worthless. They use MD over network block device (NBD) and have no write guarantee's. If a node goes down, its hard to tell which node is consistent. NBD is old, and I have no idea why they use it.
    * Failover counts on a central system for tracking the "grid" (ALDO system)
    * When we asked what kind of switches they tested with and recommended, we were told to use a flat, dumb switch for the "backbone" which made no sense
    * Multiple instabilities and total grid failures were noted over the use of the product ~1yr experience
    * Upgrades required full "grid" downtime which defeats the whole purpose of an HA platform
    * Support was non existent and generally did not provide root cause for failures when requested

    Steer clear of this product. It's a joke... its a nice front end, pretty way to draw out environments but when it comes to the stability many enterprises demand, it simply did not deliver. If price is all you are after, give it a shot but be prepared for data corruption and sub par performance. You would be better off taking your time and heartache and investing in a real platform. Even OnApp was more stable when we tested it, and it still had its issues with its software network bridge driver

    Good luck!
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdmoNet View Post
    Even OnApp was more stable when we tested it, and it still had its issues with its software network bridge driver
    Hey - could you help me out and just quickly ping me an email (d@onapp.com) with just a few lines on the software network bridge driver issues you saw when testing OnApp?

    Really appreciate it.

    Thanks


    D
    Ditlev Bredahl. CEO,
    OnApp.com & SolusVM.com + Cloud.net & CDN.net

  12. #12
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    Ditlev-

    Messaging you now.

    Thanks,
    Adam
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  13. #13
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    AdmoNet, when did you test it and what version? AppLogic no longer uses ALDO, it uses the BFC. And, failover isn't dependent on the BFC, it's handled by the Grid Controller, which is hosted on the grid.

    As for hardware, they do have a complete list of certified hardware including switches now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTY View Post
    AdmoNet, when did you test it and what version? AppLogic no longer uses ALDO, it uses the BFC. And, failover isn't dependent on the BFC, it's handled by the Grid Controller, which is hosted on the grid.

    As for hardware, they do have a complete list of certified hardware including switches now.
    Hello,

    This was 6mo ago or so.

    Still did they fix the issues with how storage was handled?
    The certified switching we were using was a common Cisco 2960G (6-8mo ago) and we were told to try a "dumb flat switch" by their techs.....

    I don't believe they have solved the storage issue or some of the stability issues we experienced. We had multiple higher level CA guys out who did nothing to fix the issues.

    Thanks,
    Adam
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  15. #15
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    I dont understand how what layer2 switch you use would have any effect on the software... layer2 is layer2...
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  16. #16
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    AppLogic requires that Spanning Tree be disabled on the ports used by grid nodes. It's true you can simply use a dumb switch, or just configure a managed switch to meet the requirements. We've tested with both Dell and Cisco switches, and 0 problems with either.

  17. #17
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    Good luck all... the product still is not enterprise ready. CA even admitted to it when we were talking to them. My 2c is to stick with an enterprise product that is test and reliable.
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  18. #18
    Hi Guys,

    What exactly is perpetual licensing? Don't need any pricing, but I'm new to the hosting business and looking to learn a few things.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by korben44 View Post
    Hi Guys,

    What exactly is perpetual licensing? Don't need any pricing, but I'm new to the hosting business and looking to learn a few things.
    Perpetual just means you own the license and you can usually use it forever vs. leasing it. You will usually still pay for support but its more of an initial capex vs. montly recurring charges.

    Good luck!
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  20. #20
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    We tested AppLogic for some time. I would not claim that we have tested it exhaustively, but we have not encountered any problem you have described. It was rock solid during our test. And we did many disruptive tests, such as force remove a node from the grid, abruptly shut down all switches, etc. Have yet to see any issues with our test grid.

    If there is indeed many issues with the product and it is, as you claim, not enterprise ready, I am sure there will be other people reporting the issues as well? Do you know of any other people having the same issues you are having? Perhaps the issue was unique to you? Perhaps you did not follow their suggested deployment setup (e.g., disabling STP, etc)?

    We still have our test grid. If you can tell us what we need to do to replicate the issues you saw, we would be more than happy to try replicating it. Until it's replicated, and since there has no been anybody else reporting the issues, I would say the issue seems unique to you. Certainly not a valid ground to claim the entire product is not enterprise ready.
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  21. #21
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    I am glad you had good luck with it.

    The issue was not unique to us this was in 3-4 different environments in different datacenters.

    I do not need you to replicate the issues we have a different solution now. The NBD and software raid on top of that is a large issue, its not something that is unique to any environment its how the software was poorly designed. We had two dedicated people to support a small environment because it broke so much. I worked with another company who I cannot mention and they too had tons of issues.

    As far as enterprise ready, the execs we worked with a CA (and our sales rep) admitted via email that this platform was not enterprise ready. They came out and visited us on site and worked with a client having issues... I am not sure if you are affiliated with CA but I am just telling what our experience was. It's NOT enterprise ready according to the people who make the software.

    Good luck
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  22. #22
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    Anyway... nice try to stick up for the product. We're not going to issue a full dissertation about our testing procedures, our environment, if it was Applogic approved etc... it most certainly was... we spent weeks of man hours on the phone with them... the platform is not enterprise ready and that is our findings. This isn't an attempt to bash them with fasle experiences. It's what really happend with real hardware in real environments.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions but we lived this nightmare for weeks on end.
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  23. #23
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    What applogic version were you testing?
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  24. #24
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    I think it was 2.9.1... its been a while.. maybe they have cleaned up things. Oh well I am done talking about it.. it was a painful time of my life
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  25. #25
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    There are few other companies here that have large deployment of applogic, running for years as I recall. Waiting for them to chime in.
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