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  1. #1
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    Advise on retrieving hardware

    Hi,

    Almost a year ago we were co-locating 6 servers with a company. The company went under and we lost all of our servers as we were un able to contact them to send our machines back/ the data center at the time wasn't releasing the machines as their bills had not been paid.

    Recently, I found an old invoice showing the machines I had co-located with them, the NATO nick names we gave the machines, their specifications and their IP addresses. Do you think if I contacted the data center and told them the situation and offered to re-colocate the machines with them they would release the machines back to me?

    We spent almost $10,000 building those machines and at the time it was a big loss for us when our provider simply decided not to answer our phone calls thus us losing the machines.

    Another senario - say the provider actually withdrew the machines form the data center and simply ran away with them (as he is no longer contactable even though their website is online + his phone is always on and simply rings then goes to voicemail) is there anything I can do? The problem is I don't have the original invoices for the machines from when I had them build, thus I can't prove I actually paid for them to be built, though I do have an invoice showing we were co locating the machines and their specifications as listed above.

    Advise?

    -- Vijay

  2. #2
    I'd advise you to contact the company where you purchase those server. Say them who are you and explain your problem, I am pretty sure that they will just send you a copy of your invoices cuz they must have it in the database. But if you was buying parts and assembling it with your own hands, it can be a problem, because distributors usually don't have the info for each customer as builders usually do.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriyK View Post
    I'd advise you to contact the company where you purchase those server. Say them who are you and explain your problem, I am pretty sure that they will just send you a copy of your invoices cuz they must have it in the database. But if you was buying parts and assembling it with your own hands, it can be a problem, because distributors usually don't have the info for each customer as builders usually do.
    Servers were built by me, unfortunately. I do however have an invoice for the co-location if that would help prove we had the servers in the dc.

  4. #4
    Did you contact the datacenter already? Can they find out which systems are yours using info from the invoice?

  5. #5
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    You could always try the data center to see if they have the machines. If they have them they may release them to you if you show you own all the data on them.

    You can also take the matter to small claims court (if the current value is <$5000) if you do this you will want all the paperwork you can muster but can do this yourself (no lawyer required). You said you built the machines yourself can you get copies of receipts or invoices for the parts you put in them? Receipts for CPU's etc often even have serial numbers on them.

    Dave.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    Almost a year ago we were co-locating 6 servers with a company. The company went under and we lost all of our servers
    Are you saying that it's been a year since this happened? I would imagine that the servers are long gone by now. If your provider stopped paying their bills to the DC, the DC isn't going to wait long before kicking them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by david_halliday View Post
    You can also take the matter to small claims court (if the current value is <$5000)
    Considering the servers are a year old now, the value probably has dropped below $5000.
    Scott Burns, President
    BQ Internet Corporation
    Remote Rsync and FTP backup solutions
    *** http://www.bqbackup.com/ ***

  7. #7
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    The servers are Dual E5520 machines with up to 24gb of ram or x3330 machines, there abouts and there are 6 of them.

    I contacted the datacenter in question and they said if I could provide proof that the machines were mine they would let me co locate the machines with them however they would not release the machines to me as part of their client contract was that if he terminated it early they were able to keep his machines (and all of his clients) as colateral.

    Is it worth agreeing and co locating the machines with the data center in question or should I take the matter to a lawyer to see if I could get them back?

    What is the current value of:

    3x Dual E5520 16-24gb if ram
    2x X3330 16gb of ram
    1x Q8400 4gb of ram <--- obviously not worth much

  8. #8
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    I'm sorry this happened to you

    It happened to a client of mine:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=715415

    What a debacle.

  9. #9
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    If you have evidence that you had went into a contract, have a tracking # that they received the hardware and invoice, you can take this to small claims court, they will be notified and proceedings will follow, start there, big hassle if you need to bring attorneys or mediator into it..
    Richard Perez | PureWeb
    Dedicated Servers - cPanel Web Hosting - cPanel Reseller Hosting
    6 Nationwide Locations. 100% Network SLA. Established in 2007. True 24/7/365 Support.
    Follow us on Twitter: @purewebtech. Network POPS in: LAX - CHI - DFW - NYC - SEA - ATL

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardPerez View Post
    If you have evidence that you had went into a contract, have a tracking # that they received the hardware and invoice, you can take this to small claims court, they will be notified and proceedings will follow, start there, big hassle if you need to bring attorneys or mediator into it..
    How is this possible though because our provider had the clause in their contract that the datacenter would keep the machines.

    Also, we co-located on a non contract basis thus did not have to sign this.

    I have contacted the datacenter and they said they would allow for co location but not release of the machines, do you think its worth taking to small claims court?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    How is this possible though because our provider had the clause in their contract that the datacenter would keep the machines.

    Also, we co-located on a non contract basis thus did not have to sign this.

    I have contacted the datacenter and they said they would allow for co location but not release of the machines, do you think its worth taking to small claims court?
    I think it is. I'd even try to charge them for every minute when my server is not working because of their contracts which doesn't allow you to get back your property.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    How is this possible though because our provider had the clause in their contract that the datacenter would keep the machines.

    Also, we co-located on a non contract basis thus did not have to sign this.

    I have contacted the datacenter and they said they would allow for co location but not release of the machines, do you think its worth taking to small claims court?
    Preface: IANAL

    Those machines are your property. Not the data centers. If they have stipulated that you can continue to collocate those machines, then they have given you all the burden of proof you need to take them to small claims as they have essentially admitted that they are yours and they are wrongfully holding them.

    Additionally, if you have serial numbers(boxes from built servers may have them) file a police report for stolen property.

    Also, these may be of help:
    http://www.justanswer.com/law/1utlk-...ent-space.html
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=962650 - XO and ANS
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=704313 - Less useful then the others


    These are particularity important:
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...6&postcount=24
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...0&postcount=13
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...2&postcount=27

    One piece of advise though, document everything in your emails, make notes when dealing with them over the phone.

    Good Luck
    Dan Sheppard ~ Freelance whatever

  13. #13
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    Thanks Very helpful

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    How is this possible though because our provider had the clause in their contract that the datacenter would keep the machines.
    They're not your provider's machines, so the DC doesn't have a valid lien on them. Legally, if you can prove they're yours, you can take them back.
    Scott Burns, President
    BQ Internet Corporation
    Remote Rsync and FTP backup solutions
    *** http://www.bqbackup.com/ ***

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bqinternet View Post
    They're not your provider's machines, so the DC doesn't have a valid lien on them. Legally, if you can prove they're yours, you can take them back.
    This is exactly the email they sent to me:

    Original

    Hello,

    Unfortunately due to the Lian that was within their contract the hardware remains ours.

    We can put these servers back online for you within our racks.

    If you wish to get these back online, what we will need is some kind of documentation showing that these are your servers, this can be in the form of either a receipt, photos, hostname's, login details and specs of the servers.



    Regards

    Jake
    Dedicated Servers
    After I confirmed they were mine:

    Hi,

    Yes, we are keeping the servers on site and can put these back online when you are ready. When you are ready please place an order online for the suitable co-location plan and quote this ticket number in the additional notes section: IPY-71134-478


    Regards

    Jake
    Dedicated Servers
    After i questioned pulling them out:

    Hello,

    We have all the hardware on hand still. These have not been resold.

    Unfortunately the hardware will remain ours and cannot be released to end clients as this is part of the lian in which was in the contract.


    Regards

    Jake
    Dedicated Servers
    Is it worth seeking legal advise or asking for a copy of their original clients contract to show to a lawyer? My uncle is a lawyer so I may be able to have him have a look over it.

  16. #16
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    Mar 2009
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    358
    The hardware's not theirs and you have no contract with them that says they can keep it in their possession (or any contract with them at all).

    Call the police.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    This is exactly the email they sent to me:

    Original



    After I confirmed they were mine:



    After i questioned pulling them out:



    Is it worth seeking legal advise or asking for a copy of their original clients contract to show to a lawyer? My uncle is a lawyer so I may be able to have him have a look over it.
    It's still your servers. And any contract with third party will give them right to "own" the equipment.
    Solution:
    1. Get the info they asked you for as proof.
    2. And then work with police or small claim. It looks like those guys are doing something not really legal.
    Last edited by ICC-USA; 06-10-2011 at 08:45 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriyK View Post
    It's still your servers. And any contract with third party will give them right to "own" the equipment.
    Solution:
    1. Get the info they asked you for as proof.
    2. And then work with police or small claim. It looks like those guys are doing something not really legal.
    Thanks for your input. I will ask a lawyer for advise however as laws may be different in my country. If they have stated in email that the hardware is mine do I still need to provide proof to a court or can I just provide the emails?

    Basically I sent the proof they asked for and they have indirectly stated the hardware belongs to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by CryptWizard View Post
    Call the police.
    Not exactly the most elegant solution, I'd rather threaten them with a legal document.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vijay Pather View Post
    Not exactly the most elegant solution, I'd rather threaten them with a legal document.
    If you can get free/cheap legal advice, then good for you. (I didn't read the part where you said your uncle's a lawyer).

    For the less fortunate, contacting the police doesn't cost anything and would be a good starting point.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryptWizard View Post
    Call the police.
    The police don't need to get involved unless the DC refuses to comply with a court order. This is a civil matter. A court order is what he needs.

    It would probably be easier to just keep pressing the DC, and explain that their lien is not valid, because it's your equipment and they don't have a contract with you.
    Scott Burns, President
    BQ Internet Corporation
    Remote Rsync and FTP backup solutions
    *** http://www.bqbackup.com/ ***

  21. #21
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    I would first bring it to their attention you will take legal action and then if that does not work take it to small claims. (But make sure your claim is < the max for small claims.) Taking it to the full civil courts will likely cost more than the servers would be worth as you would need to lawyer up but you can do small claims yourself.

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