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  1. #1

    * Using Proxies To Avoid Getting Asked For ID/Documentation?

    I'm an American living in Vietnam and it seems I'm always asked for an ID EVERYTIME I order a new server or do anything on the Internet with a credit card...after I immediately send two forms of ID I'm inevitably asked for a picture of me holding my ID! I assume it's because my IP address is in Vietnam but my card is from the US.

    How can I avoid this? It's getting a bit ridiculous since I buy something online at least twice a week. My credit card company is well aware that I'm in Vietnam, but that doesn't seem to stop PayPal or Hostgator for asking for locking my account/asking for ID.

    I was thinking using a proxy might be a good option, but there are all different kinds and I don't know what kind would be best for this. Any recommendations?

  2. #2
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    Vietnam is unfortunately a high-risk country. I have seen a lot of credit card fraud out of Vietnam.

    You will probably pass fraud checks quite easily if you use a US proxy. Just make sure it's completely anonymous (some proxies will send your actual IP in each HTTP header) and private (you don't want 1,000 other people using the same proxy).

    The problem however is if the proxy you use is detected. You are then in even more trouble as you tried to mask your actual location.

    Have you considered getting a Vietnamese card? That would solve your problems.

  3. #3
    Why not attach your card to paypal and verify with paypal by giving all docs. Then you won't have the problem again...

  4. #4
    The better solution would be to get a friend to setup a router at their location with a VPN running on it (Tomato would work great) and VPN and not use a proxy.

    Cheers

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by glaxxon View Post
    Why not attach your card to paypal and verify with paypal by giving all docs. Then you won't have the problem again...
    +1. Its only an effort made once. You are set for good after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DForces View Post
    The better solution would be to get a friend to setup a router at their location with a VPN running on it (Tomato would work great) and VPN and not use a proxy.

    Cheers
    Overkill.

  6. #6
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    that won't work as most orders are screened for fraud .You should only being asked for an ID once (if you order new servers at the same place) also note vietnam and other countries in that area are considerd high fraud risk.I'm not saying you are naughty but be carefull with proxies because if the physical address does not match the ip geolocation the order will be declined

  7. #7
    Using a proxy doesn't help, datacenters are not stupid. Maxmind Fraud Protection will detect it, no doubt about it.
    Secondly, even though the country might match with the personal info entered. Don't forget that MaxMind will also check for the distance between the address and the location of the IP.

    It starts with a verified PayPal account, if it's not verified.. you'll surely have to go through all the verification steps they can think of.

    It probably sounds harsh, but suck it up and deal with it. You live in Vietnam... and it's considered an high risk country for a reason. They still want your business.. so all they do is make sure you are really Mister X and not someone else. Once verified, everything should be OK.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatseeder View Post
    Using a proxy doesn't help, datacenters are not stupid. Maxmind Fraud Protection will detect it, no doubt about it.
    Nope. If a VPN or a proxy is used (say, a residential one setup by a friend still in the states or at the OP's residence) there's almost no way that it will be detected.

    Secondly, even though the country might match with the personal info entered. Don't forget that MaxMind will also check for the distance between the address and the location of the IP.
    Simple - get a local vpn/proxy.

    It probably sounds harsh, but suck it up and deal with it. You live in Vietnam... and it's considered an high risk country for a reason.
    From what I see, he has US documentation/addresses but he's in Vietnam for the time being. Nothing wrong with that.

    --

    Good luck OP

  9. #9
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    Don't use public proxies or anything - get a trusted friend in the US to do it.

    You really don't want to be doing billing info off a public proxy list.

  10. #10
    You can SSH tunnel your internet via any server running linux. You would use putty to configure an SSH tunnel, and then tell your browser to connect to putty as a socks proxy. Works wonders. Just get a low end linux VPS located in the city you want your ip to be from.
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  11. #11
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    You need a vpn service not a proxy and a paid one and you will have 0 problems, will recommend hidemyass dot com, I am not NorthAmerican but I do have a northamerican credit card and us paypal and don't have those problems.
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  12. #12
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    lol if you use hidemyass you'd have much bigger probs signing up for anything.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by OffshoreRacks View Post
    You need a vpn service not a proxy and a paid one and you will have 0 problems, will recommend hidemyass dot com, I am not NorthAmerican but I do have a northamerican credit card and us paypal and don't have those problems.
    A paid vpn is still not idea because the ip ranges are shared with other customers. HMA is a good option generally, but for buying things online, personally, I would prefer setting up my own SSH tunnel to a VPS that I controlled. A cheap VPS is going to do fine for this and will probably even cost less than a VPN
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantumphysics View Post
    lol if you use hidemyass you'd have much bigger probs signing up for anything.
    Not really they have like 100 US IPs to choose from and they change on time to new ones, have like 4 years using them and I place a lot of orders online.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatseeder View Post
    Using a proxy doesn't help, datacenters are not stupid. Maxmind Fraud Protection will detect it, no doubt about it.
    I can assure you that this is not the case. MaxMind and similar are not magic. There are ways around them.

  16. #16
    I've seen a certain VPS company that refuse my order if I don't put in my residential address (to pass maxmind) instead of my billing address (in UK).

    Not as bad a situation as the OP. I just want to point out that I can put any address within the city of what my IP indicates to pass Maxmind.

    I just don't have a clue why would any company trust Maxmind more than Paypal in verifying billing address, which the Paypal billing address is actually "verified" with the credit card registered.

    On a side note, why don't companies charge more initially, say 2x price for first 3 months, to cover possible fraud, then charge lower price if there no chargeback from the customer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurleung View Post
    I've seen a certain VPS company that refuse my order if I don't put in my residential address (to pass maxmind) instead of my billing address (in UK).

    Not as bad a situation as the OP. I just want to point out that I can put any address within the city of what my IP indicates to pass Maxmind.

    I just don't have a clue why would any company trust Maxmind more than Paypal in verifying billing address, which the Paypal billing address is actually "verified" with the credit card registered.

    On a side note, why don't companies charge more initially, say 2x price for first 3 months, to cover possible fraud, then charge lower price if there no chargeback from the customer.
    Some do, it's called a setup fee. But some companies want to be competitive and a setup fee is not always the right way to achieve that.

    Nobody says that MaxMind is the only thing used to control fraud. The PayPal verified/unverified status of course also helps and there a some more ways to minimize fraud. For example the PayPal Authorization form.

    PayPal also requires you to provide proof of address and identity... why would it be so strange if a company also asks for it?
    When companies intercept nearly all fraud orders you'll also benefit from it in a way. In the end someone will have to pay for the damage caused thanks to fraud. Which means that the prices will go up...
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by greatseeder View Post
    Some do, it's called a setup fee. But some companies want to be competitive and a setup fee is not always the right way to achieve that.

    Nobody says that MaxMind is the only thing used to control fraud. The PayPal verified/unverified status of course also helps and there a some more ways to minimize fraud. For example the PayPal Authorization form.

    PayPal also requires you to provide proof of address and identity... why would it be so strange if a company also asks for it?
    When companies intercept nearly all fraud orders you'll also benefit from it in a way. In the end someone will have to pay for the damage caused thanks to fraud. Which means that the prices will go up...
    My argument with that particular provider was that the "current" address (which could really be anything) they're demanding is not on my billing address on Paypal's record (which can't add an overseas address anyway). So somewhere down the line it might trigger Paypal's fraud detection instead. It is not even about not providing ID.

    I am amazed how some companies would spend so many man hours on fraud checking than the cost of the product that is being sold.
    Something to do with trying to keep a low chargeback ratio?

  19. #19
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    I would buy a cheap linux VPS in the US and and setup a VPN (I would try to with the company who sell them at the DC Closest to the Cards registered address.).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatseeder View Post
    Some do, it's called a setup fee. But some companies want to be competitive and a setup fee is not always the right way to achieve that.

    Nobody says that MaxMind is the only thing used to control fraud. The PayPal verified/unverified status of course also helps and there a some more ways to minimize fraud. For example the PayPal Authorization form.

    PayPal also requires you to provide proof of address and identity... why would it be so strange if a company also asks for it?
    When companies intercept nearly all fraud orders you'll also benefit from it in a way. In the end someone will have to pay for the damage caused thanks to fraud. Which means that the prices will go up...
    PayPal is PayPal.

    I don't mind sending verification documents to PayPal. What I do mind is sending ID scans for a $4/month product.

  21. #21
    if you already have a server in the us then create an ssh tunnel and use it as a socks proxy. it's the easiest and safest since ssh is encrypted and it's your box. if you use an open or public proxy then attackers can intercept your card data even if it's encrypted.

    otherwise, i agree w/the paypal account.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantumphysics View Post
    PayPal is PayPal.

    I don't mind sending verification documents to PayPal. What I do mind is sending ID scans for a $4/month product.
    The issue is, the risk to the host is MUCH greater than $4. If you begin spewing abuse from the account and then just charge it back they're potentially out hundreds of dollars in labor for clean-up, resolving the dispute, etc.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DForces View Post
    The better solution would be to get a friend to setup a router at their location with a VPN running on it (Tomato would work great) and VPN and not use a proxy.

    Cheers
    this sounds interesting. exactly what steps are involved? i don't even know what a VPN is actually.

    do i just have to buy a wi-fi router, install something on a computer, and keep the computer running? that actually wouldn't be too hard since i'm going to my parents house in less than a month.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by quantumphysics View Post
    Don't use public proxies or anything - get a trusted friend in the US to do it.

    You really don't want to be doing billing info off a public proxy list.
    what do i need to have my friend do specifically...since i'm going to the us in a few weeks, i can set something up at my parents house if i know what to do (as long as it's not too much of a pain, i think it might be worth doing since i may be overseas for quite awhile and might as well take care of this)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidle View Post
    what do i need to have my friend do specifically...since i'm going to the us in a few weeks, i can set something up at my parents house if i know what to do (as long as it's not too much of a pain, i think it might be worth doing since i may be overseas for quite awhile and might as well take care of this)
    Just get a netbook or other tiny comp, toss on debian or whatever, keep it plugged in and powered (ethernet preferably) and install sshd and port forward.

    Make it automatically update against dyndns or set up a cron to notify you of its IP or something.

    More or less done there.

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