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  1. #26
    Talked to Highwinds, would only quote XO and Level3. Wasn't interested in XO and on Level3 they wouldn't quote anything less than 100 meg on gige. Bummer. Pittsburgh is turning out to really suck...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    Talked to Highwinds, would only quote XO and Level3. Wasn't interested in XO
    And please don't change your mind about that.

    Take it from those of us with XO experience. They're a nightmare to deal with, and their network is an abortion.

  3. #28
    Thanks, I won't. I've extensively searched these forums for XO info and there's not a single good word about them. In fact there's even a thread specifically requesting something good about them and it's all #FAIL.

  4. #29
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    I'd bite the bullet on a TWTelecom and L3 mix.

    We rock both, AWESOME networks, and now that L3 has GBLX it's looking good.

    Cool thing about GBLX is that they leased most of their network from other carriers that level3 was servicing, so in the grand scheme of things L3 will pickup GBLX and then drop all those leases and run its own fiber to fill in holes.

    Were trying to keep our TWTL link matched to L3 but so far it's almost pointless as the L3 network is solid as a rock.
    'Ripcord'ing is the only way!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    Collecting quotes from carriers with on-net presence in the facility we are in. Looking for as low as 10mbit commit on fast ethernet.

    So far we have:

    Cogent - 50mbit commit, $300/mo
    Level3 - 10mbit commit, $400/mo
    XO - 10mbit commit, $800/mo

    Still waiting on:

    ATT
    Verizon
    Sprint
    Comcast

    Are the quotes we're getting good prices? What kind of prices are others seeing on low commits for Att, Vz, Sprint, Comcast?
    For your commit level, $6/Mb with cogent is a pretty fair price. I read through the thread briefly and you're correct, Cogent used to have a reputation for being a carrier that provides dirty bandwidth and many people still perceive them this way but they've come along way since 2004-2007. The CEO of cogent looks at bandwidth as a commodity (supply and demand) and therefore should be treated as a commodity which is why they sell for so cheap. I remember about a year or so ago cogent was offering $1.5/Mb for a 1 gigabit connection for a total cost of $1,500 per month which is very cheap by anyone's standards.

    From my personal experience, we currently have 5 private racks with a tenant in 151 front street. At the moment, we're making use of their peering arrangements with Level 3, T-systems, MCI, Tata and Global Crossing with Cogent as a backup only.

    You'll be happy with Level 3 and maybe you could toss in Cogent into the mix as a backup/fail over at the price point offered to you. Also, out of curiosity, aside from the carriers you listed are there any other available? I know Peer 1 provides a solid service but they don't have their own Data Center/POP in Pittsburgh. Of course, I could be wrong.

    Good luck and do update us with the carrier you end up going with.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visbits View Post
    I'd bite the bullet on a TWTelecom and L3 mix.

    We rock both, AWESOME networks,
    My own experience with TWTC on a full commit Fast-E was excellent from a network quality standpoint. My only real complaint was pricing, and they've made decent improvements in that regard since I last used them. They're still not as cheap as Level3 and GBLX, but they'll get close if you commit to at least 100 Mbps.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    680
    One thing to remember is getting Level(3) directly is unlikly to be much different from the data center blend that always seems to use L3 anyway. Approx same #hops etc. You can always ask the providers for the ip of the switch you will be connected to so that you can run a ping/traceroute to that switch from the internet and compare it to the ping/traceroute you are getting with your data center blend.

    D.

  8. #33
    Good point. Another concern of ours is being locked into our dc vendor's ip address space. It's really painful to migrate several /24 blocks of hosted customers over should want to move. Having our own AS and ip space is something that I don't see how we could meet without having at least 2 transit providers to qualify for the AS.

  9. #34
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    You can pick up 1 transit provider, and then the dc would represent the second, which would qualify you for multihoming.

  10. #35
    Interesting... So should I ask my dc if they can advertise my routes along with their own? How would that work and what are the questions I should ask them?

  11. #36
    You can ask your datacenter for a "backup" line with no commitment and even quit it when the AS is registered.
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  12. #37
    OK - So that qualifies me for AS but leaves me hanging onto one carrier which would be a bad idea.

    However do dc providers with their own blend advertise customer routes as their own? Is this something normal to ask or will they think I'm crazy?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    OK - So that qualifies me for AS but leaves me hanging onto one carrier which would be a bad idea.

    However do dc providers with their own blend advertise customer routes as their own? Is this something normal to ask or will they think I'm crazy?
    Pretty normal, i dont see why they wouldnt do it. They would just want an LOA (letter of authorization) from you stating they can advertise your ip addresses.

  14. #39
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    You can ask your datacenter for a "backup" line with no commitment and even quit it when the AS is registered.
    Arin tends to not look too kindly on that kind of thing.. Plus having a backup provider outside of the DC is a good thing, just in case there is a routing problem within the DC's network.

    Interesting... So should I ask my dc if they can advertise my routes along with their own? How would that work and what are the questions I should ask them?
    You could do that.. Some carriers will advertise your ASN and IP space for you if you ask them to. Otherwise, use/buy a router capable of running BGP, and exchange route information with both your datacenter and transit provider(s) using BGP, and then route accordingly within your network. Routers that will support full internet routing tables can be very pricy though, so if you are on a budget you may want to consider Vyatta or Quagga, as both of those solutions can be had for the cost of a basic server.

    Please note: this is not necessarily a recommendation for running edge routers using x86 hardware, just throwing out options. I have personally done this for some time, with success.

  15. #40
    I did consider vyatta and have been looking at that for a long time. While I think it's a great solution for both firewalls and routers it won't work for us because clients ask us what we're using. Telling them Juniper gets respect as does Cisco. Saying vyatta would turn people away. Again, right or wrong doesn't matter, client perceptions do.

    Actually a couple days ago I picked up 2 x j4350's and plan on upgrading the cpu/mem. Got them for $575/ea. They will take full tables and handle our low traffic quite nicely. We use juniper srx firewall clusters to sticking with Junos (vs IOS) was a big factor.

    So we can exchange route information with our dc and our other carrier which gets us our own ASN and solves the issue of ip lock in. Plus right now only Cogent is very affordable so it would be a cheap way to get a second carrier in the mix without spending a lot of $$. I like that, a lot Then we can add in other carriers as we grow to get better and better routes.

    Now the question I have is, on the dc path, is this the same for us as it would be on the Cogent side wrt to bgp routes, config, setup, etc?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    I did consider vyatta and have been looking at that for a long time. While I think it's a great solution for both firewalls and routers it won't work for us because clients ask us what we're using.
    Okay, I have to ask. WHO are these customers asking so many questions? (in the generic sense, not naming names)

    Given the very low commit you asked for in the original post, the assumption is these are either (a) very small accounts or (b) accounts with very small traffic. Neither answer would necessarily justify them obsessing over brand of router or hop count when their collective traffic levels are so insignificant.

    We've been in business continuously since 1996 and have some fairly high-end accounts (we don't do cheap hosting) paying us a lot of money, yet I can't ever recall being asked what router platform we use, nor can I ever remember someone making a fuss over how many inbound hops they saw in a traceroute.

    I'm not throwing darts at you, but reading this thread does have me wondering what kind of customers you're actually dealing with.

  17. #42
    One word: Magento. If you've dealt with it you'll know it uses a ton of resources and people using it are looking for speed. Forget running it in a shared environment and even vps servers will crumble under the weight of it. The types we get are tech savvy enough they know to do a traceroute but not enough to know that hops don't matter, latency does. Some of this has to do with competitors looking for any advantage they can claim over us and pointing things like this out to potential customers.

    As for low bandwidth, again that's Magento. It's such a resource hog that we sell big plans to run shops with 500k+ products while their traffic is actually quite low. So the ratio of bandwidth used to revenue from hardware sold is way out of line from normal. It's also why we can afford to obsess over such small details as this.

  18. #43
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    Aside from any filtering you wish to do, the setup in BGP should be very similar between the DC and Cogent (or whoever you go with). Except for the fact that cogent will probably make you use mulihop bgp to peer with them.

  19. #44
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    Apr 2011
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    If this is at the location of your other thread we may want to clarify DC....If by data center, you are thinking of a carrier neutral operator, this needs to be reconsidered. You would need to collocate with a provider inside of it operating their own network for this to work.

  20. #45
    Our contract is up in 2 months and we are willing to move the whichever facility makes the most sense for us.

    Yes, by DC I'm referring to our current location in the other thread.

    I also haven't received any email from you circus&back so please do let me know if your offer still stands.

  21. #46
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    Apr 2011
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    Yeah...I will pm you. ..all little tied up at the moment to chat tonight. (tomorrow is fine) I think the idea of having someone announce your space but not pass much traffic to get an AS# would work..and inside their space you might even be able to avoid 2X Xconnect fees..but in terms of DC, it would need to be someone who has their own DC inside that facility. Not sure off hand what those choices are....but I can find out with a call to some old friends..

  22. #47
    Thanks, appreciate the help.

    I only know of Expedient and Equinix (formerly Switch and Data). But apparently Equinix doesn't like money because they won't return any requests for quotes. Or maybe they REALLY like money I'm just chump change to them.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    Collecting quotes from carriers with on-net presence in the facility we are in. Looking for as low as 10mbit commit on fast ethernet.

    So far we have:

    Cogent - 50mbit commit, $300/mo
    Level3 - 10mbit commit, $400/mo
    XO - 10mbit commit, $800/mo

    Still waiting on:

    ATT
    Verizon
    Sprint
    Comcast

    Are the quotes we're getting good prices? What kind of prices are others seeing on low commits for Att, Vz, Sprint, Comcast?
    The XO pricing is horrible. The rest is OK.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff View Post
    The XO pricing is horrible. The rest is OK.
    Turns out Level3 was higher because of a mrc for a backhaul. They have a pop but not an ip pop and they have to backhaul literally only about 1 mile away. The cost? $750 a month... More than the monthly commit.

  25. #50
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by miliscent View Post
    Our contract is up in 2 months and we are willing to move the whichever facility makes the most sense for us.
    If you're in Pittsburgh, have you considered Pair Networks? They've been in business since 1995 and their service is outstanding. They've always been in the shared and dedicated server business, but recently added colo. They have direct transit connections with Level3, Verizon, Sprint, and Global Crossing, really love their work and it shows in how well they treat their customers.

    http://www.pair.com/services/colo/

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