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  1. #1

    Do you think PHP jobs will be around for a lifetime?

    It is just scary how years ago if you knew HTML, PHP, Mysql, and some javascript you were good. Now I see jobs that ask about skills or knowledge in scripts that I have never heard of before. This is highly unrealistic that a job would only hire someone who knows how to use some unheard of technology. Then when I check it out it looks like the technology is more advanced than PHP and javascript combined.

    So do we always have to reeducate ourselves on a college level every two years? I may just get a degree in a job that remains the same since it seems that programmers need to throw away all of the things they spent years learning in the past for something new that is thrown out there that you never seen before. It is scary as this is how I pay my mortgage and now I am obsolete.

  2. #2
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    Hello,

    I think that if you limit yourself to just php you're only hurting yourself. I personally have a wide range, yes, I started with just PHP (actually qbasic when i was 9 if you count that?), I can comfortably code php, python, ruby, nodejs, javascript, perl, bash, actionscript, vbscript, visual basic, and c#. I can also code some c and c++ (Enough to do nearly anything i'd need to ever do, but no where near to code an entire game or anything). I can easily pickup on any php, python, nodejs (javascript), and ruby framework if i needed to.. its not that hard once you master a language.

    I used to think that if a job wasn't php i won't do it, but i limited myself and lost a lot of potentially earned money.

    I don't have a difficult time looking at a new language and being able to comfortably code in it if i have to do something for a quick job. I'm confident that I can do anything I put my mind to.

    My biggest weakness is I can't design.. I've never been able to, and i don't think i will ever be able to. I've always paid a designer for that and then i'd code it and then i'd adapt that to whatever i am coding for a client.

  3. #3
    I can design but I suck at graphics, perhaps you mean the same thing. Well I am not limited to just PHP, I know HTML/CSS/PHP/MYSQL/XML/JAVASCRIPT which is all that is needed to run a website. I tried learning Drupal but after reading tons of pages that do not explain a damn thing, I give up. I swear that programmers are HORRIBLE at explaining things. When I teach someone things I already know related to programming, they fully understand since I do not type 40 paragraphs to explain one little thing.

  4. #4
    Oh yeah and plus now everyone wants to use JQuery so I have to throw away all of my knowledge with javascript and AJAX to memorize thousands of new functions. This is not worth it.
    Last edited by lexington; 03-24-2011 at 10:39 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexington View Post
    I can design but I suck at graphics, perhaps you mean the same thing. Well I am not limited to just PHP, I know HTML/CSS/PHP/MYSQL/XML/JAVASCRIPT which is all that is needed to run a website. I tried learning Drupal but after reading tons of pages that do not explain a damn thing, I give up. I swear that programmers are HORRIBLE at explaining things. When I teach someone things I already know related to programming, they fully understand since I do not type 40 paragraphs to explain one little thing.
    I think 6 years ago, you could get away with just php, but today you have RAILS for ruby and django for python.. and they are quite popular and possible to run them even on shared hosts regularly.. and once a client gets it in their head that they want it in a language they have read about or they like the name of it, thats what they are going to want it in. Its either: ruby, python, or php for the most part. I wish people would just start adapting nothing but nodejs and code everything nonblocking v8 javascript.. i absolutely love coding it and want to see a lot more of it. But i can't have it that way unfortunately and just code and bid on what I see fit.

    The last 6 months I've barely done much freelance work as its tiring pleasing a huge audience, so i've started coding a few pieces of software and plan on selling it to help me supplement my income. I only bid on projects that i've already done something different and reuse code (I don't code for people that make me sign a NDA for the code, and always make sure they know i do reuse code) so that i can get a thousand dollar project done in a week without any problems. But they don't come that easy very often but its what keeps me going for supplementing my income.

    I understand you can't stand relearning new functions and stuff, but thats what comes in this field, even if you were a server administrator, you NEVER stop learning AT ALL in the technology field, thats a fact.

  6. #6
    Hi,

    I think PHP is still pretty good and its more stronger than ever.
    Its very difficult to get PHP developers. We recruit as many as we can get.
    But knowing more is always helpful as PHP by itself will be of limited use.
    In the tech industry things tend to change much faster. You cant help it.
    You need to be able to adapt to changes.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cselzer View Post
    My biggest weakness is I can't design.. I've never been able to, and i don't think i will ever be able to.
    I suggest you read the 3 books written by John McWade and sign up his "Before and After Magazine". You will be able to elaborate better and more elegant solutions than many "professional designers".

    http://www.bamagazine.com/Articles.asp?ID=150
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I suggest you read the 3 books written by John McWade and sign up his "Before and After Magazine". You will be able to elaborate better and more elegant solutions than many "professional designers".

    http://www.bamagazine.com/Articles.asp?ID=150
    If he can't design then that means he is one heck of a coder

    PHP hasn't hit its peak yet. More and more people daily are wanting their static site changed. Php is quick and efficient.

    To answer the original question directly. Nobody knows. About 20 years ago Windows came out. Now we have computers that are capable of making phonecalls while driving in a car.

    Personally I believe it will be around but not popular anymore. I expect technology to progress.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by speckl View Post
    If he can't design then that means he is one heck of a coder
    Exactly because "he is one heck of a coder" he will be able to elaborate great designs. Design is driven mostly by technique and discipline. Like programming it is craft work but not art.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Exactly because "he is one heck of a coder" he will be able to elaborate great designs. Design is driven mostly by technique and discipline. Like programming it is craft work but not art.
    I think you are way of by this. You can program and be a designer as well. That is possible. Some people are really great at both of them. However you may find that developers are more problem solving and math oriented in their mindset. Designers can be this way but the best designers are of a creative mindset and have the ability to think up tons of designs before a project begins.

    Repetition can help anyone get better at anything. However, it doesn't change their initial mindset that has been established through years of growth and development.

  11. #11
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    I guess you don´t know what a real programmer does. You need to be more creative than a designer and also must think a solution up tons before a project begins.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexington View Post
    Oh yeah and plus now everyone wants to use JQuery so I have to throw away all of my knowledge with javascript and AJAX to memorize thousands of new functions. This is not worth it.
    If you know javascript then jquery is really easy to pick up, saves a lot of time too.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I guess you don´t know what a real programmer does. You need to be more creative than a designer and also must think a solution up tons before a project begins.
    Your right, I don't have a clue what I've been doing for the last 15 years.

    You are mixin up problem solving and creativity.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I guess you don´t know what a real programmer does. You need to be more creative than a designer and also must think a solution up tons before a project begins.
    Yeah ... no.

    Problem solver != creative

    Most programmers couldn't design themselves out a of a paper bag.
    Just as many artists couldn't program themselves out of a paper bag.

    To be successful with web development, you need to know both. Not just sorta-kinda know one, and better understand the other, but fully understand and grasp deeply the concepts and technology that power both halves. Or be part of a team where there is collaboration to create that.

    Most "designers" fail at understanding the tech beyond minimal monkey-see-monkey-do level.
    As do most programmers that try their hand at design.

    And no, I don't think PHP will "be around" in 10 years as it exists now.
    I've seen far too much change in the past 15 years. Just look at what happened to classic ASP.
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  15. #15
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    It shouldn't take that long for a good, proper software engineer to adapt to another language or environment. PHP jobs won't be around for a lifetime (no one can guarantee this, but history suggests), but no serious developer goes to college or learns how to program in one language and one language only. Yes, a developer specialises in a platform but it no way means they can't adapt to something else if they have the skills of a generally good programmer.

    dotHostel alludes to kind of the right thing...
    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I guess you don´t know what a real programmer does. You need to be more creative than a designer and also must think a solution up tons before a project begins.
    Last edited by Jamie Edwards; 03-25-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexington View Post
    So do we always have to reeducate ourselves on a college level every two years?
    Every two years may be exaggerating. I started with PHP in 1997, when it hit version 2.0. We're now 14 years later and it's still going strong. Granted, the first few years there wasn't a lot of demand, but it could easily have resulted in employment for 10 years already and we're still counting.

    Most languages are based on the same procedural and/or object oriented principles. I was "raised" in C++, (OO) Pascal and Basic, but never had any problems switching to Python, perl, Java or whatever was needed for a project. Sure, you need dig into it for a few weeks, but that's very doable, even in your spare time.

    Finally, I wouldn't be too worried. A lot of languages come and go, while only a few stay forever. Given the current install and code base out there, it's pretty safe to say PHP isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Problem solver != creative
    I completely disagree with this. The best solutions are the creative ones - if the solution wasn't a creative one then either it is a bad solution or the problem wasn't difficult (and wasn't worth solving anyway!)
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I suggest you read the 3 books written by John McWade and sign up his "Before and After Magazine". You will be able to elaborate better and more elegant solutions than many "professional designers".

    http://www.bamagazine.com/Articles.asp?ID=150
    I've just never really cared to learn. I can code a psd into xhtml / css / javascript using prototype/mootools/jquery no problems at all, but never took the time to learn web design. I don't mind giving a few friends of mine the web design portion of my freelance jobs, i'm comfortable with that. But i really appreciate your suggestions.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Edwards View Post
    I completely disagree with this. The best solutions are the creative ones - if the solution wasn't a creative one then either it is a bad solution or the problem wasn't difficult (and wasn't worth solving anyway!)
    Me as a developer I disagree with your thoughts on this. Not all solutions need creativity. How creative can you get when developing a login script? Yes, some of the greatest coding has come from creative tasks, but the coding in itself is always creative. We developers find new was around old problems but that doesn't instantly make it a creative thought. I still consider that a problem solved.

    Creativity can help to solve problems but a solved problem with the use of creativity doesn't make it creative.

    Programming and math go hand in hand. You must go through steps to get to the correct answer. Choosing a different path to take doesn't make it creative.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by speckl View Post
    Your right, I don't have a clue what I've been doing for the last 15 years.

    You are mixin up problem solving and creativity.
    You are right, I don't have a clue what I've been doing for the last 37 years.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Edwards View Post
    I completely disagree with this. The best solutions are the creative ones - if the solution wasn't a creative one then either it is a bad solution or the problem wasn't difficult (and wasn't worth solving anyway!)
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by speckl View Post
    Programming and math go hand in hand. You must go through steps to get to the correct answer.
    I've found with both disciplines that the more difficult problems have many ways of arriving at a correct solution.

  22. #22
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    I believe it will. It would a hit a new version every 2 years like said above which may include some major features. PHP seems hard to learn.

  23. #23

    SQL Development same as mySQL?

    I am looking at local jobs and I see one job looking for an SQL developer:


    Company Information
    Client is in need of SQL developer who values IT as an end to a means and not a product! Our Client is using independently validated savings methodologies specializing in intelligent cost management of medical services for commercial, Medicare and Medicaid payers. The company maintains management contracts for more than 25 million individuals nationwide.

    Position Description:
    • Client is looking for energetic, positive developer that wants to rise to the challenge of working the best Microsoft Development Shop in town!!
    • Looking for someone with 5+ yrs SQL Development experience
    o Experience with SSIS, SSRS or SSAS would be great
    o Healthcare Claims experience is a huge plus.
    I tried searching Google for the difference between this and mySQL and haven't really found any answers. Is this the same as mySQL?

  24. #24

    Question about Tortiose SVN

    I tried searching Google and watched videos but is there a demo url I can use to edit files online so I can see how it works in a real environment? I am trying to learn how to use it but I think I need an online site to use so I can understand how to use it. All of the FAQs I read just say create a repository and commit and checkout files but that really isn't helping me.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexington View Post
    I tried searching Google for the difference between this and mySQL and haven't really found any answers. Is this the same as mySQL?
    They're also one of the biggest healthcare companies in Nashville.

    If you're familiar with MySQL, you should be able to pick up MS SQL pretty fast. You'll probably want to familiarize yourself with Stored Procedures if you're not already.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexington View Post
    Oh yeah and plus now everyone wants to use JQuery so I have to throw away all of my knowledge with javascript and AJAX to memorize thousands of new functions. This is not worth it.
    Ask yourself why you became a software developer in the first place. If it has to do with money or fame, maybe this isn't the industry that's best for you. Then again, maybe you're just burnt out, and you need a vacation.
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