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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hycloud View Post
    In most areas in the US, there are only one or two broadband providers you can choose from.

    In my area, I only can get DSL from AT&T.

    I'm still trying to figure out which stupid cable company provides service to my area so I can get cable internet instead.

    I've check: Verizon for FIOS, Charter, Time Warner, Comcast

    None are available.

    I'm stuck with AT&T for DSL. That's $40 for a 3MB/s DSL line.
    Very true, and sorry to hear. But you're right, DSL rarely seems to be a value. Cable is usually a much better value than DSL, especially when you consider download and upload speeds.

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  2. #27
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    The two co-creators of the internet support net neutrality.

    Here's Sir Tim Berners on Net Neutrality.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jev2Um-4_TQ

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    That's a pretty major leap there, assuming that only p2p is affected, or that it will "congest their networks". That is not the case at all, and p2p is CERTAINLY not where it will stop.
    I wasn't meaning to imply that only p2p was affected but that p2p was mostly the cause for this coming about (after many ISPs began throttling p2p traffic some time ago).

    As to the other examples you gave, I agree and it's precisely what I would not want the ISPs doing. I'm doubtful that they would do it, but you're right in asking what's to stop them if they wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by hycloud View Post
    In my area, I only can get DSL from AT&T.
    I'm pretty much in the same boat with Comcast as my only high-speed option. Comcast's solution to this issue was simply to put a cap on bandwidth usage last year (I believe it was 250gb limit per month per account).

    Quote Originally Posted by hycloud View Post
    The two co-creators of the internet support net neutrality.

    Here's Sir Tim Berners on Net Neutrality.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jev2Um-4_TQ
    Thanks for posting this video. Up until watching this I was pretty much undecided about net neutrality. My main hang-up was that I think ISPs should be able to throttle extreme bandwidth usage from the p2p networks. However, Tim Berners explained it well in that net neutrality simply means getting the connection that you pay for, without any other interference. I suppose that still would leave an option for ISPs to have limited bandwidth plans but keeps them from interfering in what the customers use that bandwidth for. I'll be signing the petition in a moment...
    ...john2k...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pphillips View Post
    I heard someone say, why doesn't the government just give everyone a million dollars? Well, we'd be no better off. We'd immediately see the price of everything skyrocket. It would be fake wealth, just like the bubble that led to the bust we're experiencing now.
    I would not consider that to be a good thing at all, but those of us who are "in the know" would end up significantly better off if that were to ever happen. It would just be a matter of knowing exactly what do to in that type of scenario.
    ...john2k...

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwaggle View Post

    If carriers can't afford people maxing out their connections, perhaps they should invest in a stronger infrastructure, or not offer such insane bandwidth to begin with (here, have 100mbps to your house, but you can only do this this and this with it!).
    I fully agree with this.

  6. #31
    Cable and DSL companies charge insane prices when other countries have better speeds.

    Time for price regulation for sure.

  7. #32
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    I don't believe anybody should be charged extra for visiting certain sites but I do understand the Telecoms position, after all, we know bandwidth isn't free, but a PPG model after a certain cap makes more sense after all it's worked well for us so far.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan B View Post
    Are ISP trying to limit the internet to packages similar to television?

    I don't think that will ever happen. There will always be one company who won't do that and everyone will switch over to that company.
    And what happens to the bigger majority of people who live in an area where there is no competition? Use the one provider, or do without?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by webspeak View Post
    I don't believe anybody should be charged extra for visiting certain sites but I do understand the Telecoms position, after all, we know bandwidth isn't free, but a PPG model after a certain cap makes more sense after all it's worked well for us so far.
    Yes, yes, bandwidth isn't free, but that's not what this is about.
    We pay the provider for the bandwidth, and in most cases, it's oversold like nothing you've ever seen. This is WHY they don't put specific speeds on TV any more, but say you get "up to XXX mb/s", because they KNOW they've oversold their bandwidth and overpacked their nodes.

    PPG models don't work when you're already charging insane amounts for oversold bandwidth as it is!
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    Yes, yes, bandwidth isn't free, but that's not what this is about.
    We pay the provider for the bandwidth, and in most cases, it's oversold like nothing you've ever seen. This is WHY they don't put specific speeds on TV any more, but say you get "up to XXX mb/s", because they KNOW they've oversold their bandwidth and overpacked their nodes.

    PPG models don't work when you're already charging insane amounts for oversold bandwidth as it is!
    What alternative do you propose? It cannot stay how it is, the current model was developed when bandwidth was a luxury and the most you could hope for was ISDN, the increasing demand for bandwidth by more individuals is what's triggering this debate.

    I know this boils down to the Telecoms wanting more $$ for the increased demand, and the future only looks like it will be an even greater demand.

    I understand they have oversold their bandwidth but they make a point when they say they ran the lines.

  11. #36
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    this aint a joke.

    most of you may be unaware but it was a real threat back 2-2.5 years ago. the media cartels and isps suddenly came up with a 'plan' to give them more power to decide 'what happens on their own network'. being, they should be let to decide who sees what for anyone using their own network.

    basically that means cable tv.

    they came up suddenly and spent 100 million in ads to persuade people in america. companies outside u.s. started doing the same demands, some themselves, some from encouragement from their partner companies.

    various campaigns started against that, one being savetheinternet com.

    it was narrowly averted, because it was delayed due to the reaction, and then i believe congress changed.

    the threat is still real. and its a real threat against freedom.

    basically, you cant let a 'highway operator' to decide WHOSE truck is going to be allowed to use their highway. what they want to do is this. discriminate traffic based on the source, not the type.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by webspeak View Post
    What alternative do you propose? It cannot stay how it is, the current model was developed when bandwidth was a luxury and the most you could hope for was ISDN, the increasing demand for bandwidth by more individuals is what's triggering this debate.

    I know this boils down to the Telecoms wanting more $$ for the increased demand, and the future only looks like it will be an even greater demand.

    I understand they have oversold their bandwidth but they make a point when they say they ran the lines.
    the alternative is simple :

    they are going to convert their assets into new investments.

    they advertised a product, they have to deliver it.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by webspeak View Post
    It cannot stay how it is
    Yes, it certainly can stay how it is. There is no "alternative" necessary at all.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    Yes, it certainly can stay how it is. There is no "alternative" necessary at all.
    I hope you're right. I am no advocate for the telcom's and support net neutrality like the rest, but this is the United States of America Inc.

    I don't agree with the highway model but the cap and PPG model is one that is widely used though, admittedly, not necessarily by the ISP's, I do not understand the downside to a cap-PPG system

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